530d se - bmw

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Sun 8 Jun 2014 15:39
530d se - bmw - shamus21

Hi can b/ms do high high mileage have got a chance of 56plate 530d with 128,000 miles on the clock it has got full b/m service history Thanks

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Sun 8 Jun 2014 16:01
530d se - bmw - dan86

All cars are capable of high millage just depends how well they have been looked after.

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Sun 8 Jun 2014 16:17
530d se - bmw - RobJP

The biggest problem with these is that the 'full BMW service history' usually means servicing every 20k miles or so - nowhere near enough. As such, the engines can suffer big and expensive failures, especially when they've got a lot of miles on them.

Ideally, any engine should have an oil change at least every 10k miles or 12 months, whichever comes first. Buying any car that's 8 years old, and has done 10-12 years worth of mileage ... well, it's taking a chance. If I was buying, I'd want to have a very good look at the warranty being offered with the car (or an aftermarket warranty) before weighing up the decision.

Having said all that, that generation of 5 series is fantastic to drive - especially in the right spec. M-sport is terrible (especially with stupid big alloys), but SE with 16 or 17 inch wheels is almost 'old-school-jaguar' luxury. The 3.0 litre diesel is powerful, but moderately refined and quiet with the sound insualtion in the 5 series, and you'll probably be looking at 40-43 mpg in a manual, 37-40 with an auto.

I had a 2006 520d SE (manual box, 16" wheels) for a couple of years, and did about 40k in it. Never had a problem, it averaged about 45-47 mpg, and was supremely comfortable. Being able to go from north wales to Edinburgh and back, and still having over a 1/4 tank of fuel left was pretty nice too.

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Mon 9 Jun 2014 11:21
530d se - bmw - Bladerrw

What's the basis of your opinion that engines need an oil change twice as often as the manufacturer recommends?

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Mon 9 Jun 2014 11:39
530d se - bmw - thunderbird

If the car is serviced using the correct spec oil and a good quality (preferably OEM) oil filter the manufacturers intervals are fine. High quality long life oils are well up to the job.

Problem is most independents and even some dealers workshops use lower spec oils which are not up to the job of working for 20,000 miles and its these engines that suffer failures. The long life oils can be very expensive and independants keep costs down by using a one size fits all bulk oil which is probably fine in a mass market car doing under 10,000 a year.

Unfortunately few people check if the corect oil is being used, and in truth very few owners are even aware that a specific oil spec needs to be used.

Most DPF issues are probably related to cheap oils being used intead of the the low SAPS oils specified by the manufacturer.

When we bought the wifes last new car we checked services costs before we bought. One dealer was £40 a service less than the rest but when asked he admitted they only used a cheap bulk oil, if we wanted the correct oil it was £40 more.

As always if its cheap there is a reason.

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Mon 9 Jun 2014 11:44
530d se - bmw - gordonbennet

What's the basis of your opinion that engines need an oil change twice as often as the manufacturer recommends?

For most owners who keep the car three years its of no concern at all, especially those who buy new and replace at 3 years and even more so for those who don't own their own cars, for those of who own and keep them indefinately its one of the (cheapest if done sensibly) ways to make the engines last.

BMW and others Diesels consumption of turbos and timing chains could, in my humble opinion be reduced considerably with sensible oil servicing, coupled with some equally unfashionable warm up cool down routines...

Not so long ago some premium makers decided their auto gearboxes were sealed for life and required no oil changes, those recommendations have been quietly dropped in many cases, and were laughed at from the start by the very competent make specialist indies, who tend to maintain cars for their customers, not the makers, benefit.

just off to stoke the boiler up to get a head of steam..:-)

Edited by gordonbennet on 09/06/2014 at 11:46

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Mon 9 Jun 2014 12:09
530d se - bmw - RobJP

My basis for saying to ignore the manufacturers oil change interval come from a few areas.

1. Being in the motor trade for a number of years (though I sold my business in 2006, so no longer).

2. My degree in Chemistry - though that has little bearing on the matter, maybe my 8 years at a major oil manufacturer and tester (not far from Ellesmere Port) has some bearing.

3. The fact that I know plenty of people who are still in the trade - largely in the repairs business, rather than in the retail side of things though.

You would be horrified if you saw the state of oil when it's covered 20k or so - thin, watery, with virtually no lubricating properties at all. You are relying on that to keep the metal to metal parts of your pistons/bores from coming into contact with each other. In addition to which, the oilways within an engine get coated up with combustion products over time - the best analogy is one of arteries getting clogged up with fat. When oil is new, it dissolves those deposits easily. When old and watery, it doesn't. Sooner or later, one of those deposits is going to break free, and then you're relying on luck that it makes it through all the bends and tight spots until it reaches the sump or the oil filter. If it fails to make it, then you've got the engine equivalent of a heart attack.

Like a heart attack though, that's not likely to happen within the short term. However, a life of poor eating/poor oil changes ... well, we all know what regularly happens then.

For BMWs, which are (almost) universally chain cam, the chain is lubricated by a fine spray of engine oil, coming out of a very tight nozzle. If the lubrication fails, then the chain fails, and at that point, the engine fails too.

Remember what I said about the fine nozzle that sprays oil over the chain ? Remember about the nice combustion deposits that you are hoping won't get into tight spots ? The nozzle is precisely THE tight spot you don't want a lump heading towards.

Feel free to ignore what I say though. After all, if you only change your oil every 20k miles, then you're saving money compared to me (and I own a 'new' F31 diesel BMW, and get my oil changed every 9-10k miles). Go for it. But I know where I'd rather be.

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Mon 9 Jun 2014 12:26
530d se - bmw - gordonbennet

Just to add to RobJP's excellent post.

The Black Death is back too, and with a vengeance, i have seen two V12 MB engines fully stripped on my MB indies bench, the rocker areas of which were caked in thick black gunk similar to what one would have found in a neglected Ford CVH rocker area.

My indy puts this all down to neglected servicing.

Compare with the inside my MB's engine, seen following last years CHG oil leak (external), properly serviced over its 18 years of daily use you could eat your dinner from the inside surfaces they are so clean.

Edited by gordonbennet on 09/06/2014 at 12:27

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Mon 9 Jun 2014 14:38
530d se - bmw - Bladerrw

RobJP - Are you currently working in oil testing then? That would add weight to your opinion.

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Mon 9 Jun 2014 15:24
530d se - bmw - RobJP

RobJP - Are you currently working in oil testing then? That would add weight to your opinion.

Oh dear. You really don't get it, do you ?

Refer to my last post - particularly the last lines of it. If you want to do oil changes at 20k, or whatever mileage, then feel free to do so. However, it's not somewhere I'd want to be, I think it's asking for trouble.

I really have no interest if you (or other people) feel my argument/opinion has weight or not. I don't get any benefit from someone taking my words to heart. After all, if someone does follow that advice, and do an oil change every 10k or so, and gets no problems, then they're hardly likely to remember this thread in 5 years and post up thanking me, are they ?

It's entirely possible, I'm sure, for someone to run a car on 20k oil changes for 300k without problems, and I'm also pretty sure that you could follow 10k intervals and suffer catastrophic failures within 100k.

Just as some smokers are on 60 a day for 60 years, and get run over by a bus, but some might do 10 a day for a decade and get lung cancer.

However, the likelihood of problems happening is where I'm at, and (hopefully) saving someone from getting a shedload of grief in terms of engine failures.

I agree with what gordonbennet posted, when he said this :

BMW and others Diesels consumption of turbos and timing chains could, in my humble opinion be reduced considerably with sensible oil servicing, coupled with some equally unfashionable warm up cool down routines...

I'll go a step further. In my opinion, BMWs engineering is equal to any manufacturer, and far better than most. However, they have been let down by their own adoption of this stupid long service interval, which was done for the fleet market to reduce lease costs. VAG, Mercedes (and others) are equally as guilty.

Oh, and in answer to your question : no. I'm not currently working in oil testing. The company I'm with now is involved in geotechnical and extraction rather than the processing side

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Mon 9 Jun 2014 15:51
530d se - bmw - Bladerrw

The problem is I do get it and I like to know if a posting is from somebody who knows what they are talking about.

I'm clear now that Gordon Bennett's and your postings are based on "years of experience". I'll weigh that against BMW/VW/MB etc expertise with current oil capabilities (with obvious marketing motivation) and decide who to go with.

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