2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - mss1tw
Bit confused. Sorry for all the part numbers but they might mean something to someone.

I fitted a JVC KD-X30 4x50W MP3 head unit a couple of years back, which was a big improvement on the OEM TAPE DECK!

The speakers were the next weakest link so yesterday I fitted a Pioneer TS-Q171C Separate 2-Way Custom Speaker System (Door speakers and dash tweeters)

These are designed for PSA cars and all went together easily in about five minutes.

Again, a huge improvement in quality especially with separate tweeters but there seems to be noticeably less bass, and turning the volume up results in more distortion than I'd expect from a £90 kit on a decent head unit.

I have a feeling an amp may be required to get the best from the new speakers but not entirely sure as I know very little about I.C.E.

I've never bothered upgrading the audio system in any vehicle yet. But as I spend so much time in the van, and I am a music lover, this is almost a 'treat'
2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - elekie&a/c doctor

If you are going to upgrade the speakers and possibly add an amp,then you will need to upgrade the acoustics of the door.This could be mean mounting the speakers on custom made wooden frames and sound deadening material on the metal work.This may help,www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/deadening/damping-mats/sk...s

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - gordonbennet

These little tweeter speakers in my experience are about as much use as a chocolate teapot in a vehicle, two in the door pillars of my lorry made horrid sounds, now muffled which has improved things greatly, i suspect switching your tweeters off would improve things too.

You've got 4 x50W output from your head unit, so my suggestion (and yes do check for adequate mounting/sealing/baffling of the current door speakers) would be to fit a suitable pair of at least 6" in the rear sections inner skins and to disconnect the tweeters...indeed if removing (or muffling) the tweeters improves things you could maybe find better speakers to replace those and wire them as the front set.

An alternative, or addition, could be one of the modern small active subs now available.

The family Aygo is similarly set up to yours, but Sony headed, 4 x Alpine speakered not as there's any great difference, but the dash speakers are approx 4" 50W RMS each as against tweeters. I also fitted a Pioneer under the seat sub (other makes available) which has put the icing on the audio cake.

On each part of the change i tried the sound, this proved that every bit was needed as there was improvement each time.

You've obviously already been through the head unit menu and set it up with Loud etc enabled.

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - corax

The metal dome tweeters tend to sound very harsh. For a smoother sound you need silk dome tweeters and the bigger the better. The two way component set ups can work well because you can adjust the amount of treble through the crossover, but you still need to be selective with the manufacturer because their speakers can sound very different. JL Audio go for a smoother sound than MB Quart for example. I took a risk and bought some DB Audio coaxials with silk domes for my car. Good bass and treble but not enough midrange. I should have gone for the above JL's, maybe next time.

A few years ago I went to Halfords where they had a number of speakers on display and you were able to switch between them. They all sounded the same to me - mush, but I'm used to a home separates system.

Any speaker sounds better when they are solidly mounted in a soundproofed door.

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - McP

Is there any chance that you have crossed the +/- on either of the speakers?

Having one of the speakers wired opposite to the other will have a big impact on bass.

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - mss1tw

Thanks for your replies everyone!

elekie&a/c doctor - Funnily that was what I spent this afternoon doing, both front doors now have a reasonble amount of Silent Coat. Is this stuff also good for sticking to the plastic door card, as being flimsy that is now the next weakest point for unwanted vibration.


gordonbennet - Yes, have tinkered with Loud/Eq. settings and found some reasonably decent settings. Was the sub hard to fit? (I'm not looking to win any soundsystem contests just to have better quality sound reproduction :-D)


McP - I don't think so as it's all pre-wired connectors with different size spade crimps for the speakers, BUT you do make a good point so I will confirm each wiring loom adapter can only go in one way round

corax - You're right, I had to turn the tweeters down slightly. Just to the point where they give clarity but not harshness.

Edited by mss1tw on 16/03/2014 at 15:25

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - gordonbennet

Sub is a doddle, simply cable tie it to the carpet under the seat for ease, then wire up same as any active sub.

Power wire direct from battery (preferably with fuse as close to batt terminal as poss) through a convenient gromit throgh the bulkhead, switching wire to the blue wire connection of your head unit, then connect the two main connections to the pre outs found on the back of your head unit, job done...note some subs come with all wiring supplied some don't.

As its a Berlie with hopefully some decent under seat space (or other handy space), you might be able to put a couple of cheaper small passive low power subs in there, (or build some 9" round speakers into home made MDF cabinets made to size) one under each seat and simply wire them to the normal rear speaker outputs instead, basically just using them as rear speakers, endless possibilities.

Wish my W124 Benz was as roomy for audio upgrades, very difficult to do much with as the maker saw fit to put small less than 4" speakers in the dash top (remarkably quite good) and similar rounds in the rear parcel shelf in purpose made cabinets, even half decent correct rear upgrades run at £150 a pair, still only 5" jobbies, there is one particular Pioneer speaker which given a litte trimming and fidding with does the rear job nicely for about £70, but a dickens of a job to find them.

Did have a proper sub in the boot to give the system some bass, but with the LPG tank in there it was getting full, no room under seats so have put an under the seat active in place of the first aid kit in the rear parcel shelf, not ideal but much better than the very poor standard sound.

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - Bolt

Whats the 4x50 watts,is it music power, RMS, or something else, because it makes a difference to output levels of the speakers and tone, ie RMS root mean square is more volume than the others can supply,so you would need a power amp to boost the volume....JVC are not the loudest of systems and whats advertised as 50 watt is equivalent to 12/15 rms in other words very low output

To get best sound quality/volume you need to buy with output in RMS, you wont need power amp with that output

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - retgwte

Did you fit new speaker cable? Or is it new head unit, new speakers, but stock speaker cable?

First thing to do would be to fit some proper high quality speaker cable before anything else.

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - Bolt

That would have been my next comment,ie manufacturers cable usually is made for about 10-20 watts music power per speaker....for 50 watts(50 volts) it needs thicker cable

My other point is if the ohms resistance of your radio is 8 ohms but your speakers are 16 ohms you will lose approx half your volume,it also works the opposite way round as well except you reach distortion point before half volume

I dont wish to confuse things but RMS power output(equivalent power in volts) in my opinion should be given on all units sold instead of music power and total output as they dont give accurate discription of real sound output,speakers should be labeled the same imo

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - mss1tw

Thank you everyone for your replies!

GB - I'll add a small sub to the wish list!

magnit - I've looked everywhere and can only find reference to 'MOS-FET 50W x 4'. Maybe the '30 part' of the username is the RMS? I know a little about that as I'm a sparky and that's how we calculate the 230VAC figure. It's a little annoying as I deliverately never buy cheap and thought it would give me enough power for future expansion.

retgwte - No it's the standard speaker cable all connected to the new unit with aftermarket plug and plag adapter blocks

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - Bolt

Metal oxide transister they are power amp transisters supposed to give high power with low distortion,amps i`ve had with them have had very good sound quality not sure of new models

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - retgwte

I think you know the solution to your problem then...

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - mss1tw

Thanks for clarifying that magnit

I guess so retgwte, that's the only part that has not been upgraded!

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - Bolt

I wouldnt worry about the cables untill you get the volume sorted, standard cable should be fine up to almost half the output.

I cannot find what the 50watt is JVC dont specify so I can only assume its actually about 12-15 rms,does it say what ohms speakers to use with it?

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - retgwte

no standard speaker cable is hardly good enough to be bell wire.

if you want to prove it to yourself try it before going to the hassle of rewiring the car just run some decent high quality speaker cable directly to the speakers 1st as a try out. i will be amazed if you are not amazed at the difference. this will quickly demonstrate that speaker cable is a big issue.

indeed many people replace their head units when just putting decent speakers and speaker cable in will be a dramatic enough improvement...

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - Bolt

Sorry but you dont need high quality speaker cable in a motor unless your spending a fortune on hi fi,oxygen free cable isnt worth it, only for a home system because you wont hear the difference,1.5- 4mm standard cable is good enough even mains cable will cope with the peaks of voltage...

But you still have to sort out the resistance mismatch which the cable wont interfere unless the volume is very high,once that is sorted by all means put what cable in you want

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - mss1tw

Thanks for your persistance chaps. I've seen both opinions online about stock vs upgraded speaker cable. The only comparison I can make is the 12V downlight transformer leads I see that are rated at 50W. They're about 1.5mm.

I have dug out the documents and found some specs:

50W per channel

20W per channel into 4 ohms, 40Hz to 20,000Hz at less than 1% total harmonic distortion
(Ten points magnit!)

Load impedance 4 ohms (4 ohms to 8 ohms allowance)

Signal to noise ratio 70dB

Edited by mss1tw on 18/03/2014 at 19:35

2004 Berlingo - Upgraded speakers - improvement in definition, but - Bolt

speakers should be 4 or 8 ohms you can find some are 6 but its nominal impedance ie it fluctuates, personally I would fit 4 ohms but thats me, you should then get the best from HU

Some are 16 Ohms but will halve the output due to poor resistance,you could have volume flat out but it wont sound it,if you have the correct speakers already it can only be low output from head unit or as stated cable but I`d go for former

Good luck with it, you would be surprised how many people have problems with in car ent