FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - b3pete

2003 Doblo 1.9 JTD

The Symptoms:

Moderate to severe wobble/shake on acceleration in all gears from about 1500 RPM upwards. Particularly apparent in 2nd & 3rd gears, but if I put my foot down in any gear the shake will result until I ease back on the accelerator.

No wobble whatsoever when coasting out of gear at any speed, (or with clutch depressed). No wobble when stationary at any revs, so hopefully not clutch or DMF.

Wobble felt through seats, floor, but not really through the steering wheel or gearstick. FEELS like it's coming from the front of the van but it's hard to say. Also difficult to say whether the wobble is side to side or front to back etc. I estimate that the shake oscillates at 4 to 6 pulses a second. It's not pleasant!

Wobble happens only when accelerating straight ahead or turning left (worst). No wobble at all when turning to the right. So joining roundabouts I get a wobble, while on the roundabout no wobble, when I turn off roundabout the wobble resumes.

The greater the load (eg uphill) the more severe the wobble.

The only way I can get the wobble to lessen (though it's still there) is to carry a passenger (or presumably a heavy sack of something) in the cab with me. The added weight on that side of the front of the van seems to quell the shaking. Or to accelerate very slowly through the gears. Or just go round clockwise circles.

Steering, braking and general handling otherwise seem normal. There's no visible play in the steering, and that's not where you feel the wobble anyway.

The engine pulls like a train so I don't think it's the problem. The gearbox had new bearings and diff gears last year, and the gearbox guys who did the work don't think the problem lies in the box.

When sitting on axle stands, and the wheels driven, the wobble can still be felt (though fainter) so I'm suspecting that it's not a problem from the rear axle. Obviously the load is less when the wheels are dangling in the air.


Things I've tried so far...

Wheels (original steel) and tyres all thoroughly checked, tested, balanced. Tracking checked. All wheels inflated and tightened correctly.

All four wheel bearings are quiet with no free play or noise when the wheels are spun and shaken top/bottom, forward/back, and side-to-side.

More than one garage has inspected all visible suspension/steering bushes, joints, links etc and can find no wear. Crowbars have been applied to wishbones to check for free play.

Top and bottom gearbox mounts have been changed.

N/S driveshaft inner CV tripod joint replaced by independent Fiat specialist. When this didn't help, I got an entire new driveshaft fitted on the O/S. No improvement. So both inner CV joints are new. The van turns in tight circles in both directions, backwards and in reverse with no clicks or knocks from the CV joint area.

As I say the only thing that seems to help is when I'm carrying a weight in the passenger seat. I guess that if this was LHD, I wouldn't have a problem!

No one I've spoken to seems to think that the shock absorbers are likely the cause, and there are no nasty squeaks when I bounce the corners. It did occur to me that the upper suspension mountings or shocker bushes may be the culprits, but would they be capable of causing the shake/wobble?

In wet weather (and only when I'm traveling passenger-less) I sometimes get a metallic click or tap coming from the passenger footwell area when I step on and off the accelerator. This may or may not be related to the wobble. I hoped that the new lower gearbox mount would cure this, but a drive today in the rain confirms it's still there.

The gearbox people say they don't think that the problems in the diff as the wobble's there when accelerating straight ahead. The best they could suggest was to try replacing the N/S driveshaft completely, though as I say the inner CV joint is new. I think they were stumped.

The van passed its MOT back in December with no advisories (the wobble was evident at that stage and I had a local garage inspect the front underside prior to the MOT test).

Sooooo...

If anyone has managed to take all of this info in, and has any idea where I should investigate next, please chime in and I'll try to get this van back on the straight and narrow. I'm concerned that the shake will get worse and result in catastrophe.

Likewise, if anyone can recommend a good logical thinking intelligent motor mechanic (in or around NW London) who might be able to troubleshoot the problem, my ears are very much open.

Thank you very much for reading this!

FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - gordonbennet

My initial thought was inner CV joint, but you've had those done.

'''When sitting on axle stands, and the wheels driven, the wobble can still be felt (though fainter) so I'm suspecting that it's not a problem from the rear axle. Obviously the load is less when the wheels are dangling in the air.'''

^^ Have you stuck you head underneath whilst being driven like this to see if the drive shafts are running true.

Thoughts otherwise..

Repack N/S outer CV with the correct grease, thats all 4 joints out of the picture then.

Does one driveshaft have a centre bearing, if so check that.

Gearbox oil checked?

Other than that, engine and gearbox mounting possible weakness, and as you mention suspension top joints/McPherson mounts whatever is used.

You've done the obvious and got a handy tyre chap to spin the wheels up for you so you can watch them carefully for out of true whilst being balanced?

Edited by gordonbennet on 27/01/2014 at 17:50

FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - b3pete

^^ "Have you stuck you head underneath whilst being driven like this to see if the drive shafts are running true."

Yes. The O/S (new) one seemed perfect. The N/S one was a gnat's less so, but hardly noticeable.

"Repack N/S outer CV with the correct grease, thats all 4 joints out of the picture then."

I might just replace the N/S shaft given the above.

"Gearbox oil checked?"

Yes, when driveshaft changed. Will check again.

"Other than that, engine and gearbox mounting possible weakness, and as you mention suspension top joints/McPherson mounts whatever is used."

Yes it has McPherson struts... I'm wondering if the O/S spring or damper are at fault, as when N/S weight is increased by a passenger, symptoms improve.

"You've done the obvious and got a handy tyre chap to spin the wheels up for you so you can watch them carefully for out of true whilst being balanced?"

Yes, I've done that. All wheels look spot-on from every angle when spinning on the balancing machine. Thanks for your suggestions!

Edited by b3pete on 27/01/2014 at 18:16

FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - Peter.N.

In 95% of cases this sort of vibration is down to the wheels/tyres, try swapping the front and rear wheels over and see if it changes the pattern.

FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - b3pete

In 95% of cases this sort of vibration is down to the wheels/tyres, try swapping the front and rear wheels over and see if it changes the pattern.

Yes, I've tried swapping front to back, side to side etc. Shakes the same way wherever the wheels are put... And I'm confident they're all balanced and round.

Frequency of shake seems pretty constant - it doesn't rise and fall with road speed or engine speed.

I really think that the fact that carrying extra weight in the N/S front seat is a clue. Either by loading components on that side, or relieving components on the other. I'll get my upper strut mounts checked.

FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - The-Mechanic

Could there be a chance the N/S driveshaft is out of balance ? Some shafts have a rubber or metal damper weight fitted to them to lessen vibration but mostly they are the longer O/S one, but its worth a thought.

I don't think it would be a strut top mount as they usually manifest as a knock or clunk type noise. Another thought is the subframe/crossmember. Are the bolts tight into the floor, are there any bushes at the mountings worn ?

It does sound like a problem on the N/S as the vibration lessens when that side is under load when cornering right. Has the rear suspension been investigated and ruled out as the cause ? A worn rear shocker, trailing arm bush etc can still transmit vibration through the whole vehicle.

FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - Andrew-T

No-one has mentioned the word Exhaust so far?

FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - b3pete

The exhaust seems pretty secure and solidly fixed. Will give it another look though, along with the other areas mentioned.

Rear shocks (and front for that matter) look OK and don't bounce wildly but I'm intending to take them to be more professionally assessed. Everything underneath seems soundly fixed, but I'll ask for it all to be "forensically" checked again...

Thanks, folks.

FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - scotmech

Another possibility ...

Check the drive shafts are sitting level with the road ...

Have coil springs been changed? ... this can possibly alter the body height ...

A broken rear spring can alter the front body height ...

If the drive shafts are not sitting level the inner CV joints will "Protest" on acceleration and cause vibration even with new drive shafts ...

FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - b3pete

"Have coil springs been changed? ... this can possibly alter the body height ..."

Original coils on the front, original leaf springs on the rear.

"A broken rear spring can alter the front body height ..."

"If the drive shafts are not sitting level the inner CV joints will "Protest" on acceleration and cause vibration even with new drive shafts ..."

Will check this. Thanks.

Edited by b3pete on 29/01/2014 at 16:27

FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - Andrew-T

Original coils on the front, original leaf springs on the rear.

Strolling up the road yesterday to get the paper, I heard a loud clang just after a pickup truck passed by. The chap walking towards me said it didn't miss him by much. As it fetched up in a T-junction it could have caused a problem at another time. When I picked it up it was clearly part of a fractured leaf spring. No doubt the driver was unaware, and the spring had clearly been fractured for some while, so the ride will not have changed noticeably.

Presumably this would normally only be detected at the MoT ?

FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - b3pete

As of today I think we can rule out the suspension front and rear. I took the van to two different MOT testers who having had the symptoms explained, gave the front and back components & bushes a thorough visual inspection on the ramps and could find no problems.

With the front wheels raised, the van didn't appear to to sag on either rear leaf spring. The front struts/coils appear to be equally sound. The leaf springs aren't noticeably mishapen.

On level ground the distance from centre of wheel arch to wheel rim is within a few mm either side, both front and rear. The van doesn't look like it's down at the back or front. Neither mechanic thought that the angle of driveshaft would be affected by the suspension in it's current condition.

The mechanic at my local garage took the van for a drive and said that he'd put the shimmy on acceleration down to a bad driveshaft. Since these have both been "done" I can only presume that one or both are still bad.

The garage (Fiat/Alfa Independents) who did the N/S tripod inner CV joint have offered to have another look at the vehicle. Only problem is they're up in the Midlands (I have family up there so got the work done whle I was visiting). I feel this might be my next move. I might take the original O/S driveshaft (which was replaced elsewhere) for them to assess the CV joints in that one (they look OK to me).

Aaargh!!! I've spent several hundred pounds trying to track this problem down already (driveshaft, CV joint, Gearbox mounts, wheel/tyres) and I seem no nearer to getting to the fault.

FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - b3pete

Good news... The n/s driveshaft with the new inner cv joint has been replaced with a reconditioned shaft and the wobble has 100% GONE!

The mechanic reckoned the old shaft may have been slightly bent or the worn tripod bearing had damaged its cup housing. Anyway, needless to say I'm mightily pleased to have the van back to its usual smooth self. Thanks for all the useful suggestions you've all provided on this one. It turns out that the original diagnosis was correct, but the fault wasn't rectified first time round with unnecessarily expensive and frustrating consequences.

Cheers folks.

Pete

FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - gordonbennet

Good news that, and thanks for updating.

Indeed its getting to the point that i for one am considering no longer replying to new posters threads, far too many ask a question, get some good well thought out replies then vanish like a politicians promise once he's got your vote.

Our OP has shown how it should be done, satisfying thread indeed.

FIAT Doblo Cargo - Shaking on acceleration in all gears - The-Mechanic

Glad to hear you got to the bottom of it and took the time to update us.