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Do your discs still last 100K ? I know they used to, when pads contained the dreaded asbestos, but since those were replaced by harder, less toxic materials, more wear is taken out of the discs.
I have had an occasional caliper seizure on a Peugeot, possibly because of old age on a low-annual-mileage car. I have also driven a 'pool' car which had virtually no friction material left on the pads - rather noisy. The pistons must have been near their limit then too.
Edited by Andrew-T on 16/01/2014 at 16:07
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Just had first set of replacement front discs on my Seat Exeo during its last service - 113,000 miles.
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I had a front caliper that was sticking on. When I removed it and inspected it, The dust seal had a small hole in it and the salt water from road salt had got in and corroded the inside of the caliper bore.
I stripped it down, Honed the bore and refitted it with new seals and it lasted until I sold the car some time later.
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Reminds me that I’ve been meaning to grease my brake pistons sometime, since my car spends long periods without moving, (often in the monsoonal/typhoonal rain of Taiwan) and I'm slightly concerned that they will corrode, as happened to the wheel cylinder on a similarly immobile truck I had in the UK.
Since its hard to find stuff here in Taiwan, I did some shopping for specialist brake grease in Australia last summer (here)/winter (there) and scored some of this stuff.
www.bendix.com.au/content/high_performance_brake_l...t
This bendix ceramlub looks like it may be a “general purpose” PAO-based lubricant incorporating solid anti-seize materials.
I’ve never had a problem with disk calipers, but I ALWAYS failed the UK MOT for visible rust on the disks, despite the brakes passing the function test with flying colors.
Could never get an explanation of the reasoning behind that apart from “because we say so”.
I dont miss the UK MOT very much.
Edited by edlithgow on 18/01/2014 at 04:54
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It's the road salt used in the UK that causes so much problem, if that isn't used in the cold season in Taiwan then you won't have anywhere near the problems experienced here.
The road salt itself isn't the issue its that most people are too bone idle to wash the stuff off periodically, paying particular attention to the brakes, but the worse problem is people leaving it in situ to bake on and do its damage all summer...this is an issue with cars defleeted in April/May time and sit for the summer.
The modern method of brake servicing, which consists of peering through or from behind the wheel at the visible side view of the pads, and then squirting brake cleaner in the general direction of the brakes, simply won't do...and hence the seizing caliper issue.
Correct brake maintenance, consisting of full strip outs clean inspection (pump the pistons out a couple of times lube push back in) lubricate properly and rebuild, will see the calipers last indefinately and the brakes efficient.
It doesn't matter to most people, because motorists (afraid to get their hands dirty) appear to have too much money and their cars are just another white goods that needs polishing (to look the part on the shiny side) but little in the way of maintenance until it gets thrown away and replaced, often @ 3 years.
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You are quite right, GB. Ever since spending 3 years in a part of Canada where it could be far too cold for salt to have any effect, and later worked for a company that dug road salt for a living, I have always considered the use of salt as creating long-term problems for very short-term benefit. Not only does it damage under-car parts; it doesn't do roads any good either, nor does the salty runoff benefit our watercourses.
No use moaning about it though. The car I drove out west was a Morris 1100, which lasted well in Alberta but fell apart rapidly in Ottawa where road salt was used. I was too green to do anything to prevent it then.
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I have always considered the use of salt as creating long-term problems for very short-term benefit. Not only does it damage under-car parts; it doesn't do roads any good either....
I think salt might protect roads. In the UK winter, temperature fluctuation is often around the freezing point. If the road is wet [and it often is] the repeated thawing and freezing will break it up. Salt might prevent this as it lowers the freezing point below many of the lowest levels of the fluctuations.
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I think salt might protect roads. In the UK winter, temperature fluctuation is often around the freezing point. If the road is wet [and it often is] the repeated thawing and freezing will break it up. Salt might prevent this as it lowers the freezing point below many of the lowest levels of the fluctuations.
It may well protect it physically - as you suggest - but I suspect not so much chemically.
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I think salt might protect roads. .
It may well protect it physically - as you suggest - but I suspect not so much chemically.
Good thought. Any evidence for this from chemists, please? Does NaCl degrade tarmac or concrete?
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< Any evidence for this from chemists, please? Does NaCl degrade tarmac or concrete? >
We all know what it does to the steel or iron infrastructure of our vehicles, or we wouldn't bother to wash it off (some of us, anyway). So it does no good at all to the steel reinforcement of concrete bridges etc. once it penetrates - and never gets a chance to dry out.
I don't think it will do much directly to tarmac, which AFAIK is gravel and bitumen. But as salt is hygroscopic it will retard drying out almost anywhere, which is generally not good.
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But as salt is hygroscopic it will retard drying out almost anywhere, which is generally not good.
Another problem with road salt is just how slippery the stuff is once its been down for a couple of days.*
I can't be the only one to feel just how light and easily slid a vehicle is when the road, salted the previous night(s), attracts the damp early the next warmish evening, not much grippier than the alternative fresh frost IMO.
As you say, the salt also holds the moisture and unless fresh rain washes the salt away the road will stay damp for a long time.
*what happens chemically to the salt after a day or two down and been churned by countless vehicles?, when it first goes down its not a problem, once its been mushed by traffic and dampened for a couple of nights it seems to have changed completely, and is one of my pet hates, and the cause IMO of many accidents because too many drivers lack the feel for whats happening at the wheels...coupled with electronics doing the job of car control for them leading to a false sense of control.
Edited by gordonbennet on 19/01/2014 at 11:17
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< what happens chemically to the salt after a day or two down and been churned by countless vehicles? >
As a compound of a strong base and strong acid, NaCl is fairly unreactive in itself. But all (I think all) our road salt comes from the Winsford mine here in Cheshire, and contains a small and variable amount of marl, which makes it pale pink or brown. Some of that on the road surface may have a slight lubricant effect (though I wouldn't have thought so).
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>>Another problem with road salt is just how slippery the stuff is once its been down for a couple of days.*
Could that be because the temperature's much lower when the council feel the need to salt the road and you're not on Winter tyres?
;>)
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Could that be because the temperature's much lower when the council feel the need to salt the road and you're not on Winter tyres?
;>)
Nice one BT...but thats the funny thing too, if it was down to freezing on those previously salted roads the grip would be fair, but the set of circumstances i describe are usually when the temp is well above freezing.
As for the winter tyres, well they've been a complete waste of time so far this year, and i still haven't dropped me summer wheels in for painting yet (lost a fair bit of paint from the spokes), really must get them in or it'll be time to put them back on again.
Going to book a week off in Feb for the hell of it..here's hoping i can time it right so i'm tucked up here snug as a bug in a rug when the snow does come...;)
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what it does to the steel or iron infrastructure of our vehicles, or we wouldn't bother to wash it off (some of us, anyway). So it does no good at all to the steel reinforcement of concrete bridges etc. once it penetrates - and never gets a chance to dry out.
I wonder what it's effects are when thousands of tons are washed into the waterways - it must change the chemical composition of the rivers and streams temporarily.
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I think salt might protect roads. In the UK winter, temperature fluctuation is often around the freezing point. If the road is wet [and it often is] the repeated thawing and freezing will break it up. Salt might prevent this as it lowers the freezing point below many of the lowest levels of the fluctuations.
Given the evidence of a billion potholes your theory about protecting roads may be flawed.
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Salt damages roads of that there is not doubt. Potholes would form in freezing weather without salt on the roads but the addition of salt makes the damage much worse.
But if it was not used and roads were allowed to freeze can you imagine the mayhem created by all the additional crashes and fatalities.
There is simply no alternative, many rural communites,especially those in hilly areaswould not be able to get to civilisation if the roads were not cleared and salted.
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But if it was not used and roads were allowed to freeze can you imagine the mayhem created by all the additional crashes and fatalities.
There is simply no alternative, many rural communites,especially those in hilly areas would not be able to get to civilisation if the roads were not cleared and salted.
There is always an alternative, but 21st-century lifestyle makes it unacceptable or even unthinkable. Not all that long ago many people were quite used to being detached from 'civilisation' for a few days. It still happens when power lines are blown down and people have to exist without a working washing machine. But councils get a lot of stick if they don't salt the roads at the right moment - on the other hand no-one gives a toss if they do salt and there isn't even a frost.
When real winter arrives in Canada it seems to take experienced drivers (they always have a snowy winter) about a week to remember how to deal with it, so there are mini-shunts for a while. In this country drivers are less experienced, and usually after the adaptation period the stuff has gone anyway.
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There is simply no alternative, many rural communites,especially those in hilly areas would not be able to get to civilisation if the roads were not cleared and salted.
There is always an alternative, but 21st-century lifestyle makes it unacceptable or even unthinkable. Not all that long ago many people were quite used to being detached from 'civilisation' for a few days.
21st-century lifestyle is simply not organised!
Back in the bad winter of '63, life carried on despite the weather - I used to cycle 6-7 miles on my rural paper round before getting the rural bus to school, which was an hour through snow drifts up to the top deck of a double decker. We never lost a day. The council snow-ploughed the roads, including the housing estates and the local farmer was contracted to use his milk-round horse to plough the pavements, again including the housing estates.
During the '70/80/90s I was commuting by car 100-150 miles a days and only lost 1 day in 30 years to the weather - and that was when the local traffic was so incompetent it couldn't get up either slight hill from where I lived - even working in North-East Scotland didn't give insurmountable weather issues.
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I think salt might protect roads.
Given the evidence of a billion potholes your theory about protecting roads may be flawed.
I think it depends on the winter. That was a particularly bad one with lots of freezing/thawing cycles. This one has had hardly any so far. And it does seem to vary where you are as to how quickly potholes are fixed.
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