Don't worry about all the congestion we're suffering from folks 'cos good old '2 jabs', sorry, '2 Jags' has come up with a foolproof solution. Yep, he's unveiling plans for 500,000 new homes to be built in the South East !!
No doubt he's expecting their inhabitants to ride bikes and make full use of the grossly underused public transport.
Is this total madness or just mild lunacy ?
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It isn't just the SE but also the South. I think one of the main areas for planning is around Basingstoke where they plan to buil 30,000 new homes (or is it 80k) around Micheldever. Now the M3/A303 are pretty busy at the best of times, so I think that you are right to be concerned about the failure of the infrastructure.
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Yep, all these vast and remote areas are going to be developed - like Stansted and Milton Keynes. Do you think anyone's told Darling and the transport people ?
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Come to think of it, there's quite a lot of prime development land on the verges of the M25 in places so perhaps they could build on that too ! I mean it's not as though the M25 is one of the busiest roads in Europe is it ?
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Or think of it another way. The North and Midlands are still paying the price for having been the engine of Britain's former heavy industry based economic greatness. Now that our economy is SE based, white collar, financial services/taking in each other's washing, then the SE is finally paying the price for the advantages it has had for decades.
The answer is not 500,000 more houses, it is geographic re-distribution to where the infrastructure can support it and where it will do most good.
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NWS people in the south east aren't conspirators in some grand scheme to deprive the rest of the country of resources. The trouble with what's gonna happen is that the mayhem created in the south east is going to adversely affect the whole country. Sad but true.
The resources required to develop expensive land in an already congested region would be much better spent elsewhere, helping to regenerate the places you speak of rather than adding to already serious congestion problems which cost British industry (yes British, not just the City of London)
£billions every year.
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I'm not suggesting there is a conspiracy, look at where our PM, Chancellor and Deputy PM come from. I'm suggesting there is a solution which you echo in your in your second para. The solution will not materialise without a bit of vision which this and other Govts. are not really comfortable with. Rebel Southerners, rebel! If you don't like what's happening pester your MP not a motoring forum!
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One decade, sooner or later, someone will have to admit that the basic problem is too many people in a limited space. OK, our population isn't growing THAT much; the reason is that every individual demands more space, to live in (only one per house in many cases), and to drive and park their cars on. Speaking as an adopted northerner, I hope the worst bit stays in the SE corner for the mnext 30 years - it's bad enough up here as it is!!
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Its typical of a labour half baked approach to things.
They are looking at an extra 200,000 houses over the next 30 years, not all at once. This will obviously not increase the supply of affordable housing but will generate sufficient extra traffic to slowly strangle the roads, as well as hospitals, schools, other public facilities. No doubt the builders who will profit from the development will be exempt from providing all the extra infrastructure that will be needed as a result of their work.
I really don't understand why they are not encouraging more companies (and therefore people) to move north, I live "oop north" and there is absolutely nothing that I cannot find or do within 1 hr drive from my front door that cannot be found in London and SE (with the exception of the number of theatres). In fact there are many more things available to me that are not in the SE. I have the lake district, peak district, 2 airports, a motorway network that has an average speed of more that 25mph, friendly people, I can drive across the city in 1/2 hr, no congestion charging (yet), much lower pollution levels, cheaper housing (even living in one of the most affluent areas in the whole country), better services. Can anyone please convince me why I should want to live in the SE rather than the NW?
Jonathan
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Yep Jonathan, you're right. Why choose to live in the South East and pay more for everything (housing, food, public transport etc.), spend half your life stuck in traffic and
put up with all the public services which are choked to the point of breaking down ?
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We all live down here 'cos we prefer it - don't we? I wouldn't swap it. Plenty of politicians have had plenty of time - and still the problems won't go away.
Might be that it's more difficult to run these things than it looks.
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One very good reason for some of us volvoman:
I relocated back to Cheshire in 2001 with a job move but will shortly be heading back down South to the big smoke.
Reason?
Good jobs in many white collar professions can be found up North but are few and far between. I am coming to the end of my "job cycle" in present role yet there are only perhaps one or two other companies who can offer me similar work and none of them are recruiting. In London there are dozens.
Take the situation of my old flatmate in London. Made redundant from work with a nice big payoff and plenty of experience. There are 20 or so other companies offering identical services and several of them only too happy to pay for his experience. If he'd been at some practice "oop North" it could take him ages to find another job or he may have had to look very far afield.
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Dan
Thank you for demonstrating the rationale of my point exactly. If they encouraged the spread of companies around the country rather than focussed on London and SE, you rfriend would have had no problems getting a job elsewhere as would you. I could go on but I don't want to get into an economic debate.
Regards
Jonathan
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I remember discussions, suggestions, arguments etc in the 1960s about trying to get companies to move to "Development Areas" I think they were called. Tax incentives in the form of better Capital Allowances were given to encourage this. I believe several motor companies opened new factories "oop north" as a result, one being Speke and another Bathgate in Glasgow where they used to "build" the Hillman Imp.
Several gov't departments moved out as well, Companies House to Cardiff, part of DSS to Leeds and Newcastle are ones I recall.
One tongue in cheek (I think) suggestion in the Economist magazine was to move the political capital of England from London to York.
But in the long term, the policy doesn't seem to have worked does it? I'm not offering suggestions, simply making an observation.
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There was a series not so very long ago on BBC TV about the activities of MI5 and Spec Branch in monitoring and containing radical political behaviour including the unions which seemed to suggest that Liverpool only got the Ford Halewood plant in return for a no-strike guarantee.
So that went well for them didn't it?
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The concept of development areas and government incentives for companies to locate in certain areas lives on, whether overtly or not. Nissan didn't build their factory in Sunderland because the chairman fancied taking in a few games at the Stadium of Light.
And as for Ford Halewood the programme you refer to also made it quite clear that anyone whose political activities outside work drew the attention of Special Branch was prevented from working there if they applied for jobs.
Matthew Kelly
No, not that one.
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What's needed here is some long term strategic planning isn't it. The problems of the SE (and hence the whole country) are becoming a self fuliflling prophecy. It's rather like the public transport problem - people won't use it 'til it gets much better but it won't get much better 'til people use it more. Unless more jobs are created elsewhere in the UK people will gravitate to the SE causing more of the congestion problems we're all suffering from.
NWS - believe me I do plenty of 'pestering' as you put it and am very well known to my MP and others. As for the reasons for raising such stuff in a motoring forum, well the congestion of which I speak is primarily motoring related (good link there) and in raising this issue I was rather hoping that those interested enough to join in the debate might do what you suggest and what I practice regularly - ie complain to those responsible.
None of us wants to see the mistakes of the past repeated do we ?
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Should have put a smilie and the end of my message :)
Incidentally if anyone does feel like raising the issue with their MP can I mention a terrific site called www.FaxyourMP.com - does exactly what it says on the tin
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Agreed NWS - letters /faxes to MP's can make a whole lot of difference, especially in marginal seats.
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volvoman
It's not just transport. Swindon's new hospital has just opened. It replaces one built in the 1970's, when Swindon's population was probably a third of what it is now, and the town is still growing. The facilities offered by the local cottage hospitals have been steadily closed down over that time, putting more load on the main hospital, which couldn't cope.
So, would you like to guess how many extra beds the new hospital offers over the old one? Answer - None, it's the same size!
So what happened after 3 weeks? The hospital sent a letter to all the local GPs asking them to please not refer patients as the hospital was full. I hope they didn't express surprise!
But don't worry, there are plans to extend it to take another 26 beds. That's all right then.
It has got a nice new traffic light controlled entrance off the dual carriageway though (motoring link)
Madness!
Regards
John S
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Keep it focussed on motoring please.
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John, you may want to mention the amount of road space and traffic calming measures introduced near the new hospital (nudge, nudge).
No Dosh ** Quick, talk motoring, Mark's coming! **
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Mark
Merely an example a lack of joined up thinking in another area, so we have little hope of joined up thinking from the goverment on transport. Said hospital has a huge new junction, with lights everywhere, presumably to save ambulances a minute or two on emergencies. No argument with that, but I can't help thinking a bridge and a couple of acceleration lanes would have achieved the same for less disruption to traffic.
Regards
John S
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Yes John - we have exactly the same problem here with our new general hospital and I bet the roads serving it aren't gonna be any better either ! They're moving our main hosital on the clogged up A21 to another site also on the A21. In fact when my father in law died a couple of years ago we had first hand experience of how difficult it was for ambulances to get to the hospital and the consequences thereof.
So essentially what we've got is:
more demand = more congestion + more pressure on existing roads/services.
and the government's answer is to build more house and add to the demand ! GREAT !!
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The sad part of this thread is that it can never become anything more than a moan about the problems caused by several million people collectively wanting to live the same lifestyle in what is becoming (already is?) an almost-full space. In the end I suppose behaviour will be forced to change, but only when there is a less unpleasant alternative. What is it?
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Growler's got the right idea. Will the last person to leave turn the lights out?
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As a Northerner I would suggest the ideal solution would be to build a nice new motorway linking (say) Leicester to Dover/ Channel tunnel accessible only to those who have ferry/chunnel tickets. This would have the dual benefits of easing congestion on the eastern part of the M25 for those who live/work there and also mean that I would never have to go anywhere near it or the southern part of the M1 or M11 or M20 or M2/A2! I would be quite happy to stay out of the way of you Southerners! No offence intended!
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