A 1 litre turbo engine needs to have it's bearings etc designed for the stresses involved - if that's done properly it'll be fine - but will it be done properly?

We can do no more than ask that question when a new engine is introduced - time will tell as reliability becomes visible.

For most vehicle users, those who sell on or hand back as warranty expires, the question doesn't compute, not their or the lease company's problem.

For too many used car buyers, who fail to research before buying, the question again doesn't compute, they tend to find out the hard way.

Interesting that the good Japanese makers (who tend to stand by their products/customers) haven't rushed production along this road, so i suspect long term durability to be suspect.

From various things i've read both VW and Fords efforts with small highly charged petrols haven't turned out as reliable as one could hope.

I know things have moved on, but there's still something to be said for more CC's, a smaller charged engine might produce more power on paper, and might (if thrashed mercilessly) be slightly faster on track, but for vast majority of us a larger easy running engine always provides an easier more pleasurable drive than the small rev sensitive stressed engine...this has been the case with lorries for the past 40 years and is still the case with modern cars.

Its only for the peculiar taxation situation that these engines exist at all.

I always - but ALWAYS - consider the key test of a car's durability comes between 3-5 years when the second or third owner economises on servicing and goes to an indpendent . There is a good chance the oils used will NOT be to the maker's spec. nor will the filters.

Add in delays in servcing and abuse - such a lots of short journeys with cold engines - and small high powere high stressed engines - and you have a recipe for disaster.. (See VAG supercharged and turbo'd engines.)

As GB says above, the conservative Japanese have not gone down this route. Does anyone seriously think a 1.0 turbo engine in a Ford Focus which is used regularly on school runs and badly serviced is likely to be a good s/h proposition.?

The engines themselves may not go pop but coked up turbos may very well decide to give up.. at the first spring sunshine long journey..

I'll watch with interest. From the sidelines. As usual.

."

Only provided that the dealer has done the work properly. My independant advised me that this is not always the case. The dealer sometimes takes money for servicing but doesn't do it. The average owner wouldn't know the difference.

Having read the thread on the Focus 1.6TDCI injector/turbo issues and the ignorance of Ford dealers.. I have to agree with you...

To make a comparison between the engine in the Renault 5 Turbo and a modern small turbo petrol engine is a bit like comparing chalk and cheese.

The engine in the Renault was an old (over 20 years old) 1.4 iron pushrod fed with a big carburettor with a big turbo bolted to it. In an effort to keep things cool under the bonnet renault fitted a fan that ran after the engine was switched off to blow cold air on the turbo. They produced about 115 bhp (which was way more than the similar contemporary MG Metro Turbo) and the work colleagues that had them never had any issues, there was no way my Mk 2 Golf GTI would keep up. Friends who raced them in the mid 90's (in Standard "Saloons" they were championship winning at that time) rarely had issues except for the occational disintigrating Turbo.

The engine in my new Seat Leon 1.4 TSi was designed from the ground up to be what it is. It has 140 PS and all the modern electronics to keep both the engine and car working perfectly together. Almost 46 mpg in 4500 miles is brilliant for a car that will doo 0-60 in about 8 seconds and has 30 - 50 and 50 - 70 times way better than any of the normally aspirated bigger engined competion had a few years ago.

Its not a "fad" its progress and those turbo cars from previous decades were the trail blazers.

With regards to "I wonder how many are still on the road today" its not the engines that will have killed them, they will simply have rusted in peace.

Edited by skidpan on 17/12/2013 at 14:04

In the late 80's, Daihatsu made a charade Gtti (2 tee's!) which was a 1litre turbo. As far as I know it was as reliable as any Daihatsu before or since.

I like the new Mazda3 and its 2ltr skyactiv engine, however it may not be as unstressed as we imagine compared to a small turbo, as it has the highest compression ratio of any petrol engine produced.

I'm sure that your 1.4 TSI will give you years of faithful service, Skidpan, as doubtless you'll look after it and have it serviced regularly.

But it may be that a highly-stressed engine like this may be vulnerable to abuse and neglect and get itself a bad name as a result.

I do not consider a 1.4 turbo with only 140 PS to be a highly stressed engine. You never have to thrash it in normal use since it has such an incredible spread of power/torque.

Some people will always neglect their cars, there is one such poster on here who claims never to carry out any maintenance, but fortunately they are few and far between.

I recall helping a lady with her company owned A4 TDI which had about 15k miles on it. The oil warning light came on. The dipstick read empty and it needed nearly 4 liters of oil to bring it to full. She had never ever checked the oil - or even opened the bonnet - it was summer so the screenwash had not yet been fully used,

She can not be an isolated case. Imagine the stress if that cycle continued for 3 years - stress on the engine that is.

That was in 2011.

I recall helping a lady with her company owned A4 TDI which had about 15k miles on it. The oil warning light came on. The dipstick read empty and it needed nearly 4 liters of oil to bring it to full. She had never ever checked the oil - or even opened the bonnet - it was summer so the screenwash had not yet been fully used,

She can not be an isolated case. Imagine the stress if that cycle continued for 3 years - stress on the engine that is.

That was in 2011.

But that is not the fault of the engine which is what this thread originally discussed. The above is simply a totally stupid owner who does not have a clue how to look after a car. Plenty come on here looking for sympathy who have done exactly the same.

The impact on the engine regardless of type would be the same.

But the lack of servicing will affect a small engine with a turbo more which will/could in future give them a repuation for bad reliability.

we had a Corsa 1.3 diesel turbo in the office where I used to work (until Jan 2012). It was a pool car, the drivers (mainly young lads) never bothered to check anything - they even managed to misfuel it. so it was no surprise that the oil warning light used to come on - and be ignored - until I took charge of the company fleet and ensured a proper regime of safety checks, servicing etc. Car went link stink, 0-60 in next to no tlme, likewise 30-50 too, I used it a few times, over 55mpg long runs at motorway speeds.

So don't blame women as the sole abusers of cars, it's a person, not a personality trait.

We used to take our company vehicles to a small independant garage for MOT work and other stuff we didn't want to do.

The owner called me over one day and told me he had a vehicle in that I would be interested in. It was an old Saab 900. It had been trailered in after it broke down when the owner reported that it was too noisy to drive any further and would not give any power.

The engine was obviously on it's last legs-they managed to get in going but stopped it straight away as it was rattling badly.

They tried to drain the oil- none came out-they removed the sump, it was full of sludge and solidified oil. So they removed the big end caps-all shells totally shot, blued, melted.

The owner was skint so they did a hope for the best cheapie - washed the bottom end out as best they could, cleaned up the shaft with wet and dry fitted new b/e's and mains with the engine in the car and boxed it all up with new oil and filter and tried it.

He said"I wouldn't have believed it-it ran sweet as a nut with good oil pressure"

They ran it about for a week-changed the oil a couple of times and it was fine.

He started it for me to listen to, and you couldn't tell it from a new engine.

How many of today's hi-tec engines would have survived that treatment?

My thoughts are that a modern engine would continue to run, seemingly fine...right up to the point it seized or stuck a rod through the block. Older engines used to give warning signs beyond a light on the dashboard I think. Modern ones just go and go until they are totally shot!

We used to take our company vehicles to a small independant garage for MOT work and other stuff we didn't want to do.

The owner called me over one day and told me he had a vehicle in that I would be interested in. It was an old Saab 900. It had been trailered in after it broke down when the owner reported that it was too noisy to drive any further and would not give any power.

The engine was obviously on it's last legs-they managed to get in going but stopped it straight away as it was rattling badly.

They tried to drain the oil- none came out-they removed the sump, it was full of sludge and solidified oil. So they removed the big end caps-all shells totally shot, blued, melted.

The owner was skint so they did a hope for the best cheapie - washed the bottom end out as best they could, cleaned up the shaft with wet and dry fitted new b/e's and mains with the engine in the car and boxed it all up with new oil and filter and tried it.

He said"I wouldn't have believed it-it ran sweet as a nut with good oil pressure"

They ran it about for a week-changed the oil a couple of times and it was fine.

He started it for me to listen to, and you couldn't tell it from a new engine.

How many of today's hi-tec engines would have survived that treatment?

The Saab 9-3 did have a well known sludge problem which persisted until the old Triumph/Saab engine was replaced by the Opel/Vauxhall Ecotec in 2003.

Which blows the theory of modern vs older engines.

Edited by RT on 20/12/2013 at 15:59

Apparently new Honda Jazz will have a 3 pot tubo 100+bhp engine...which blows into the gutter my previous comments about not going down that route :_)

How many of today's hi-tec engines would have survived that treatment?

Modern engine management systems attempt to maintain the idle speed regardless of any mechanical issues that might be brewing.

Any pre-sieze tightening up of an older engine would be met with constant stalling which the owner would have seen to (presumably with a service) - manufacturing tolerances are far better than they used to be engines have never been better - that's probably why they get abused more. In the past motorists were often enthusiasts - these days cars are seen as consumables driven by disinterested consumers.

I remember bodging the engine of a Datsun 180B nail bought by my mum at an auction for £50, it had very little compression due to knacked rings to the point of hardly starting at whch point it smoked like a trooper. Wanting to avoid a rebore and new pistons which would have cost more than the car was worth. I bought oversized piston rings and filed the ends or the rings until the right gaps were achieved, upon reassembly, it was so tight I couldn't turn it over by hand!

Once started and running I had to screw the idle screw all the way in to get it to idle, about every 50 miles I had to back the screw out half a turn as the engine freed up and started idling too high. It ran blooming hot and did 15mpg for about two months and then settled down - the engine was sweet as a nut for the next 5 years until it was scrapped as the body rotted away around it.

Edited by SteveLee on 22/12/2013 at 14:42

As I've always said - if you want reliability - buy Japanese (Korea is hot on their heels now though) I find Japanese cars generally to be insanely boring - but the Japs get the basics right 99% of the time. First they copied the British (but with better quality control) - then after learning all our mistakes - they did it right! :-)

Although it can be said the Japanese have always struggled with setting suspention up properly. - early Nissan Primeras aside - they very rarely get it just right.