Heads up for anyone who is around at 12pm, or one for the podcast.
I caught the end of today's programme and tomorrow an investigation into why diesel car owners are ending up with very expensive repair bills. Could be interesting as they are slghtly more objective than Watchdog!
Edited by daveyjp on 10/12/2013 at 19:45
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I gave up diesels nearly a decade ago after a failed injection pump on a TDDI Focus cost me around £1300 (diagnosis, towing, replacement and re-programming). It had done less than 50K!
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Thanks for the heads up, chances are i'll be away from a radio at the time but hopefully can catch it later.
I too have finally given up on Diesels after nearly 30 years almost continual ownwership.
Just too complicated now, with potential high costs that could easily wipe out any fuel savings for my circumstances, granted others circumstances may still see Diesel as a good bet for them.
We run two LPG cars now, for the forseeable future we will continue with LPG, with the possibility of going Toyota Hybrid in the future, probably when LPG gets hammered by whichever Dick Turpin happens to reside rent free in number 11 at the time.
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Its common in Holland to have lpg prius maybe that's something to look in to in tbe future.
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Its common in Holland to have lpg prius maybe that's something to look in to in tbe future.
Yes that would be something indeed, but unless the LPG system fitted to them can fire up on a cold engine it wouldn't be much good for me on my normal commute of 13/14 miles which is probably half of my car driving.
If i do go hybrid i'll probably go the whole hog and get a Prius Plug In (unless one of those GS450h refined hooligan temptresses tempts -;), with a bit of careful driving there's every possibility i could drive entirely on electric one way with current (ho ho) technology...have to speak nicely to work and stress that they should put a charging point or two in.
Edited by gordonbennet on 10/12/2013 at 20:57
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SHOCK HORROR
Cars sometimes break and cost a lot of money to repair.
That will be an exciting pogramme.
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Point taken, Skidpan, but I think the issue here for many of us is that when we first had a diesel car it was for its likely reliability and longevity, as well as the economy and low-down torque.
Because of the need to lower emissions and make diesels quieter, modern diesel engines now have components which go expensively wrong with time and mileage - which simply weren't there in the 80s and 90s. It's this disappointment in a product thought to be reliable which gets to people.
I'm back with petrol - my second after five diesels in a row - with no regrets, not least because a petrol Octavia vRS has lots of torque and is capable of mpg in the high 30s - even 40 - out of town.
I wonder if newer diesels will start to depreciate faster once the market in general is aware of the problems.
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I am sure you are correct, diesels will start to depreciate faster, particularly as our new car market is skewed by the CoCar market. People will still choose them for their lower tax , but that doesnt mean the demand will be there when they are 3 and sold on once more of the general public realise the issues.
However i fear Petrol engines are getting far more of this extra expensive technolgy to help get the lower CO2 figures, and it may turn out modern petrols are far more of a time bomb that those of a few years ago, so switching from diesel to petrol may not help too much. I hope i am wrong
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I wonder if newer diesels will start to depreciate faster once the market in general is aware of the problems.
Some modern petrols have also had expensive failures as well. The individuals use needs to be taken into account before purchase, most just buy a car like a new washing machine.
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The piece was pertinent to another thread about diesels cutting out. The problem is gel being formed in the biofuel now being used. RAC are being called out to dozens of diesels with fuel filter problems.
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I'm running my second Saab 2.2tid estate, having turned in the last one which was running well (if a little rattly) at 210,000 miles. This one is a MY2005 automatic and about the last of the line before Saab started putting in the 1.9tid with all its attendant problems. Emissions on the 2.2tid may not be that great but it still turns in 40 mpg day in day out. Of course it sounds rattly from the outside but you don't really notice it on the motorway.
The present one did need a new EGR as it hadn't done many miles for the last couple of years, but it's running fine now.
We go over to France quite a lot, so I also get the benefit of cheaper gazole (about -15% at the moment), one tank a month.
I fear the political pressures for the ever-demanding Euro rules on emissions have created many problems ...
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I had my Honda Tourer 2.2 I-CTDi for almost nine years with no problems whatsoever. I replaced it this year with the 4th gen Honda CR-V EX 2.2 I-DTEC, and I expect the same reliability.
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Why would you expect the same reliability from massively more delicate injectors operating a much higher speeds and with a DPF stuffed on the exhaust with the resultant engine oil polluting regeneration nonsense required to keep them clean? Diesels are nasty horrible dirty polluting things and the realisation (at last!) of that fact and the ensuing panic measures required to clean them up is what has done for them.
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Why would you expect the same reliability from massively more delicate injectors operating a much higher speeds and with a DPF stuffed on the exhaust with the resultant engine oil polluting regeneration nonsense required to keep them clean? Diesels are nasty horrible dirty polluting things and the realisation (at last!) of that fact and the ensuing panic measures required to clean them up is what has done for them.
Got rid of the Epica firstly because usage had changed and the oil & filter changes when warning light came on were negating any fuel saving.
went a size down to 1.6 petrol cruze and overall mileage seems to be about 2mpg worse.
(2.0 turbo diesel epica to lighter 1.6 petrol cruze)
Another diesel, no, and next car if and when will be non turbo petrol 4 cylinder, just to avoid the turbo'ed 3 cyl ecoboosts and things.
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A small turbo engine in a large car is reccepe for disaster in my opinion as you will have to work the car hard all of the time witch will result in poor fuel economy and I cant see these engins lasting lie a good old fashioned n/a engine of the right size for the job.
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A small turbo engine in a large car is reccepe for disaster in my opinion as you will have to work the car hard all of the time witch will result in poor fuel economy and I cant see these engins lasting lie a good old fashioned n/a engine of the right size for the job.
"B-but the salesman said it was better than the worthless old-fashioned engines. He said this was the future! I got given a BROCHURE!"
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A small turbo engine in a large car is reccepe for disaster in my opinion as you will have to work the car hard all of the time witch will result in poor fuel economy and I cant see these engins lasting lie a good old fashioned n/a engine of the right size for the job.
Totally disagree. Bought a 1.4 TSI Leon 140PS back in June. Back in my youth a decent 2 litre like a Pinto was about 100 BHP, a decent 2 litre like a Duratec in a Mondeo was about 140 PS before Ford replaced it with the 1.6 T. The performance of the Leon is incredible, power comes in smoothly from tickover and max torque arrive with no sudden thud at 1500 rpm, it continues until 6000 rpm or more but there is no need to ever go there. As for economy so far the Leon has averaged over 45 mpg calculated.
My last Golf GTi had a 1.8 N/A engine and both its performance and economy were nowhere near as good as the Leon achieves from a 1.4 Turbo and since you never have too thrash the engine it should be good for many years.
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A small turbo engine in a large car is reccepe for disaster in my opinion as you will have to work the car hard all of the time witch will result in poor fuel economy and I cant see these engins lasting lie a good old fashioned n/a engine of the right size for the job.
No - just like a turbo-diesel you've got so much low-end torque that most of the time you're not using that much throttle so not stressing the engine.
A 3-cylinder engine will have 4 main bearings, a V8 only has 5!
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A small turbo engine in a large car is reccepe for disaster in my opinion as you will have to work the car hard all of the time witch will result in poor fuel economy and I cant see these engins lasting lie a good old fashioned n/a engine of the right size for the job.
No - just like a turbo-diesel you've got so much low-end torque that most of the time you're not using that much throttle so not stressing the engine.
A 3-cylinder engine will have 4 main bearings, a V8 only has 5!
Most turbo diesel drivers (Low rpm torque engine) I see still rev the thing like it's a 16V petrol engine.
I think you have too much faith in the average driver!
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My last two cars have been diesels, both acquired secondhand when a few years old and both high mileage.
All my previous cars over 25 years were petrol powered and all except one of them suffered at least one roadside breakdown, some cars had several. Yet neither of my diesel cars have ever failed on a journey, the only time either of them let me down was due to a flat battery caused by faulty electrics, not related to the engine.
On reliability alone, I would recommend diesel. Then there's the extra economy; 50+ mpg for a medium sized car - and modern diesels are probably even better.
As I've said before, there's a reason why lorries and buses have all been diesel powered for decades, and why almost all light vans are now diesel powered. In fact there's 2 reasons: 1) economy and 2) reliability.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 16/12/2013 at 11:56
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Yes, but each time we go up a Euro number we get more and more electronics and gizmos to go wrong ... it was fine up to about Euro 3 ...
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Yes, but each time we go up a Euro number we get more and more electronics and gizmos to go wrong ... it was fine up to about Euro 3 ...
Well if you will buy French or GM cars - people who do not support their designs when they get it worng... What can you expect?
(Or Ford, etc)
Edited by madf on 16/12/2013 at 13:35
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Yes, but each time we go up a Euro number we get more and more electronics and gizmos to go wrong ... it was fine up to about Euro 3 ...
Well if you will buy French or GM cars - people who do not support their designs when they get it worng... What can you expect?
(Or Ford, etc)
But I don't think that any diesel will comply with the latest Euro standards (5? 6? Factorlal 7?) without all sorts of wizard wheezes to control the system and to clean the exhaust output. Catch 22 methinks.
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Iv had a mix of petrol and diesel engined cars and only one has let me down a mk1 punto petrol because the clutch went all my cars a well maintained and iv run some of them up to very high miles.
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Most turbo diesel drivers (Low rpm torque engine) I see still rev the thing like it's a 16V petrol engine.
I think you have too much faith in the average driver!
Maybe - I drive a turbo-diesel automatic so it spends it's life between 1,500 and 2,000 rpm because I rarely use more than half throttle.
But occasionally I put a smile on my face and "drive it like I stole it" just to warm the DPF up.
Edited by RT on 16/12/2013 at 12:52
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Most turbo diesel drivers (Low rpm torque engine) I see still rev the thing like it's a 16V petrol engine.
I think you have too much faith in the average driver!
Maybe - I drive a turbo-diesel automatic so it spends it's life between 1,500 and 2,000 rpm because I rarely use more than half throttle.
But occasionally I put a smile on my face and "drive it like I stole it" just to warm the DPF up.
And because it's good fun too, I hope. It's OK you're among friends here!
None of my vehicles have a cat or DPF but that doesn't stop them getting the whatsits thrashed off them occasionally...a lot more fun on the motorbike than in the Berlingo, though. :-D
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In my spare time I do diagnostics on Peugeots, specialising in the 307 - mainly because its ubiquitous, and I've had four myself in the past so I know them inside out.
The thing which bothers me almost every single time is the lack of servicing on the point of the owners. They don't do anything, barely even lift the bonnet - especially on the diesels.
They seem to think that the car likes pootling around town without any preventative maintenance or oil changes, not to mention the suitability of a diesel for local driving.
And we see this reflected on the Peugeot forums - new owners sign up with problems with their latest purchase, they buy a car with little or no history, then wonder why its not working.
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And we see this reflected on the Peugeot forums - new owners sign up with problems with their latest purchase, they buy a car with little or no history, then wonder why its not working.
Not surprised.
Botjh Toyota and Honda offer cheap 4-5 year maintenance programs and the service departments are friendly with good seats and free coffee. (at least the ones in Stoke on Trent).
Whereas the Peugeot dealership is not somewhere I would want to sit waiting for my cart to be serviced. Or indeed want to spend more than 5 minutes - sad, rundown and noisy.
(The Toyota dealers in Stoke - Pinkstone - offer also a TV, lounge and a very pleasant lot of free biiscuits AND superb service )
Edited by madf on 17/12/2013 at 15:26
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I was talking more about older Peugeots, ones where the warranty has long run out and you wouldn't take it to the dealer for servcing or repair.
We don't get many people signing up when their cars are still under warranty and they're the first owner.
If you want to see a nice Peugeot dealership, the Chester one is very posh.
Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 18/12/2013 at 13:55
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If you want to see a nice Peugeot dealership, the Chester one is very posh.
Haven't tried the new Chester one, since Dickens closed in Christleton. But if you would like a good traditional one, go to Macclesfield. Still with the same family for the last 100 years.
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Whereas the Peugeot dealership is not somewhere I would want to sit waiting for my cart to be serviced. Or indeed want to spend more than 5 minutes - sad, rundown and noisy.
I'm surprised you bother to get your cart serviced, madf - most of us gave that up years ago. Happy Christmas.
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