Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

Tue 5 Nov 2013 15:16

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - dimdip

Would appreciate members' thoughts on this.

I was planning to sell my car and decided to get the cambelt change done first to maximise its value.

The work is done (eventually costing nearly double their 'firm' estimate) and the guy mentions that the rear lateral link bushes are beginning to deteriorate and that it's a £400 job to fix. I'm thinking, 'okay, I didn't ask them to do any inspection, but fair enough.'

Then when I get home, I find they've printed that advisory on the receipt, meaning I'll be obliged to mention it in an ebay advert etc which will put off many bidders and devalue the car. So I emailed the garage to ask if they will reissue the receipt without the advisory. So far, no reply.

Now, I realise that for an MoT inspection or a scheduled maintenance service, there is a legal obligation to check and advise of any developing problems. But not for a one-off specific task where I didn't request or authorise an additional inspection at the other end of the car.

So assuming they do ignore my request to reissue the receipt without the advisory, do I have a leg to stand on?

Thanks for any comments

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Tue 5 Nov 2013 15:55

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - skidpan

So your attention has been drawn to a defect. You want to sell the car and NOT tell the buyer about a defect you are now aware of.

In my book that is simply not acceptable. How would you feel if you bought a car that the seller knew had a defect and kept quiet about it, bet you would be delighted.

PX the car to a garage, that way you can rest easy since they will have built repairs into the trade in/sale price.

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Tue 5 Nov 2013 16:32

Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - dimdip

I understand your point. I'm not the dishonest type, but this is a £1500 10-year-old car. With cars of this age it's obvious there are going to be various perishable items that are 'deteriorating'.

Having just been charged £400 to have the cambelt changed (when they quoted £200), off their own backs they decide to do an all-over inspection revealing an item that will need attention at some undisclosed time in the future, costing another £400. When all I requested they do is change the cambelt.

Selling it trade will of course be worth even less.

Edited by dimdip on 05/11/2013 at 16:33

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Sat 9 Nov 2013 12:45

Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - SteveLee

I understand your point. I'm not the dishonest type, but this is a £1500 10-year-old car. With cars of this age it's obvious there are going to be various perishable items that are 'deteriorating'.

Having just been charged £400 to have the cambelt changed (when they quoted £200), off their own backs they decide to do an all-over inspection revealing an item that will need attention at some undisclosed time in the future, costing another £400. When all I requested they do is change the cambelt.

Selling it trade will of course be worth even less.

Scan the document in remove the advisory and reprint it - job done - if the buyer phones the company to ask if the cam belt has been done the answer will be "yes".

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Tue 5 Nov 2013 16:29

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - oldroverboy.

Would appreciate members' thoughts on this.

I was planning to sell my car and decided to get the cambelt change done first to maximise its value.

As per the other comment, you are prepared to hide a relevant fact from the purchaser of the vehicle, but look at it like this, what would you say if you bought a similiar vehicle privately and found out when you had it 3 weeks that your rear tyres were wearing oddly because of a suspension fault, From a trader you might have some comeback, bur privately???

On this forum we see enough problems already with cars.

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Tue 5 Nov 2013 17:24

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - bathtub tom

Why did they double the price of their 'firm' estimate?

I think you may have more isuues with them over that!

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Tue 5 Nov 2013 17:46

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - Galaxy

From my own experience, when a vehicle inspection is carried out on a car at the time that other work is being carried out on the vehicle, this is usually documented on a separate form, which is specifically used for that purpose. This contains details of the vehicle inspection only, and nothing else. I've never had this information put onto a receipt myself. I guess the actual procedure differs where-ever you happen to go.

Yes, OP. Why did your garage double the cost of fitting your new cambelt? I'd be very interested to know.

Edited by Galaxy on 05/11/2013 at 17:47

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Tue 5 Nov 2013 18:20

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - Simon

What car is it?

And its too late now, but why pay £200 or even £400 having the cambelt done if you were selling it anyway. I'm sure that you have not increased its value by £200 just because the cambelt has been changed.

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Wed 6 Nov 2013 09:25

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - Skezza

What car is it?

And its too late now, but why pay £200 or even £400 having the cambelt done if you were selling it anyway. I'm sure that you have not increased its value by £200 just because the cambelt has been changed.

As someone who has bought a number of Cambelt driven cars, if I come across one that hasn't been changed on time, or is very due, I will generally ask for a reduction in cost, or I will not go near it at all as it means it's clearly been neglected. A cambelt is a costly job, but not as costly as when one fails.

Simple logic my friend.

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Tue 5 Nov 2013 18:30

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - dimdip

Thanks for the replies folks.

Re the quote escalation, the quote was just an email saying £200. I chose the garage as a manufacturer specialist as I wanted the job done well and drove 100 miles to get there.

When I drop the car off, the guy says, oh yeah, you will probably need a new tensioner as well which will be another £190. So technically he had quoted for just the cambelt as requested, but was disingenuous in not mentioning the tensioner as well in the quote.

So double whammy really. Anyway, you've convinced me it would be wrong to sell without mentioning the advisory or getting it fixed.

I may have another MoT done and ask then how long they think it will be before it needs attending to. It wasn't mentioned at all on the MoT a few months ago.

Edit - Simon, funnily enough it was in HJ's car selling guide to get things like that done to realise the car's value. It would be one of those questions that people would ask, and I wouldn't want to sell it to someone who didn't realise they had that job still to do.

Edited by dimdip on 05/11/2013 at 18:34

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Tue 5 Nov 2013 23:01

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - Wackyracer

They should have quoted to change all the parts for the timing belt, Any tensioners or guide rollers and the water pump too if driven from the timing belt.

As for the advisory, The deterioration on them maybe be minimal and quite acceptable for many years to come. It is one persons opinion. I had an advisory for an exhaust box 3 years ago. I looked at it and it was OK and has not been mentioned on any of the MOT's since.

Sometimes advisorys are just garages looking for work. Your idea of taking it for an MOT will determine if they need changing or not.

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Tue 5 Nov 2013 23:04

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - The-Mechanic

There is an obligation to report any defects found, it's called duty of care. So what if you didn't ask for a safety inspection, it probably is the normal operating procedure for the company to carry out safety checks on all cars in the workshop, regardless of what they are booked in for.

The garage is only covering themselves from possible legal action in case any car that recently has left their workshop is involved in an accident or the customer comes back with a complaint on some unrelated fault or failure.

IMHO, it's a sign of a good garage that they took the time to carry out a FREE safety inspection, it shows they are attentive. Sure, there are going to be those who say "Oh, they're only fishing for more work" but at the end of the day, if the car has a legitimate fault, they are duty bound to mention it (whether its on the invoice or a separate sheet).

The garage I work for always inspects all cars for safety related problems and reports them on the invoices to ensure transparency for the customer and ourselves. If more garages did this, there'd be a lot less "dodgy" motors being sold with undisclosed faults on the roads.

And finally, what was the tensioner made from to cost £190 ? Platinum !! What car have you got ? You haven't yet said and it'd be interesting to find out. Was it just a tensioner or did the coolant pump get replaced too ?

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Tue 5 Nov 2013 23:35

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - Andrew-T

There is an obligation to report any defects found, it's called duty of care. So what if you didn't ask for a safety inspection, it probably is the normal operating procedure for the company to carry out safety checks on all cars in the workshop, regardless of what they are booked in for.

There is an obligation on the garage to report, but not on a private seller unless asked. We still don't know what is for sale, but I am surprised at the idea of getting a cambelt changed (usually £300+) before selling a car of that value, which as Simon says, will not be recouped in the sale - though it should make a sale more likely. Just get that MoT - any keen buyer can find out the last 7 years MoT results.

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Wed 6 Nov 2013 16:17

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - Ed V

If it passes an MOT, then 12 months motoring for £1,500 seems more than value to me.

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Thu 7 Nov 2013 00:29

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - dimdip

Thanks for the replies Gents.

The-Mechanic wrote: <<There is an obligation to report any defects found, it's called duty of care.>>

I think that's appropriate for MoTs and scheduled service inputs, but to do an all-over inspection at every repair visit seems over the top to me.

<< IMHO, it's a sign of a good garage that they took the time to carry out a FREE safety inspection, it shows they are attentive. >>

You're no doubt right but I'd have preferred it if they had spent less time on that and more time putting together an accurate honest quote!

<<The garage I work for always inspects all cars for safety related problems and reports them on the invoices to ensure transparency for the customer and ourselves. If more garages did this, there'd be a lot less "dodgy" motors being sold with undisclosed faults on the roads.>>

Fair comment, though garages aren't the Police; they should remember who owns the car and who is paying the bills rather than deciding what is done, IMHO.

<<And finally, what was the tensioner made from to cost £190 ? Platinum !! What car have you got ? You haven't yet said and it'd be interesting to find out. Was it just a tensioner or did the coolant pump get replaced too ?>>

It's a Subaru Forester non-turbo. Just the belt (£77+VAT) and tensioner (£158+VAT) were replaced. The garage is an independent specialist, so you would hope those are the best prices.

Wackyracer wrote: <<As for the advisory, The deterioration on them maybe be minimal and quite acceptable for many years to come. It is one persons opinion. I had an advisory for an exhaust box 3 years ago. I looked at it and it was OK and has not been mentioned on any of the MOT's since.>>

That sums up the problem really -- it may be nothing of concern for some time to come, but just having to mention it in the advert will be enough to put some bidders off, and they'll go and bid on one which probably has unmentioned faults instead...

Forgot to say earlier that it had a full annual service a month ago with no mention of the fault on their advisory sheet either. As posters suggest, I'll get the MoT redone and ask for an estimate of time remaining before failure. I got a cheap MoT voucher with my Kwikfit insurance, so that'll be an ideal time to use it.

Ed V wrote: <<If it passes an MOT, then 12 months motoring for £1,500 seems more than value to me.>>

The way things are going Ed I might just end up hanging onto it!

Edited by dimdip on 07/11/2013 at 00:42

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Thu 7 Nov 2013 13:35

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - mfarrow

It does seem a bit odd to mention this on the receipt, and you need to start looking at how much a tensioner should cost. Certainly not £200. To suggest it's made of platinium is a bit far fetched though, it was probably just gold, and diamond encrusted.

Have a word with the garage to see if they will take it off. Go in. There's no point e-mailing them, they'll just ignore it.

On advisories, I've had cracking CV joint boots for 6 years, pads looking low for the last 3, and slight play in wheel bearing for 2. All at different MoT garages (I don't like doing repeat visits) and all only picked up once.

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Thu 7 Nov 2013 14:49

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - Bromptonaut

My indy's standard invoice/receipt form includes an 'observations' box where they will list anything else noted either at service or on repair jobs.

I'd be reasonably sure the techs are trained to do a quick lookover while cars on ramps to spot obvious issues like fluid drips or torn gaiters. After doing work they'll test it on the road and again report any issues, noises etc. I either get it dealt with - leaks etc or agree I'll monitor - the old Xantia's clutch which had a release bearing rattling for 40k+ miles.

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Thu 7 Nov 2013 14:57

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - madf

Tensioner kit

http://www.kimbercarparts.co.uk/Single-Part.aspx?GID=AJE%5EADS77616%5E21385%5EDITS-EN%5ETENK&gclid=CPyIv9730roCFQjKtAod1C4A7Q

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Thu 7 Nov 2013 17:49

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - Andrew-T

"Just the belt (£77+VAT) and tensioner (£158+VAT) were replaced. The garage is an independent specialist, so you would hope those are the best prices."

Must be very special parts. The belt and tensioner kit for my 205 was £50 + VAT a few years ago, and the waterpump another £27. Badge engineering?

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Thu 7 Nov 2013 18:50

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - madf

"Just the belt (£77+VAT) and tensioner (£158+VAT) were replaced. The garage is an independent specialist, so you would hope those are the best prices."

Must be very special parts. The belt and tensioner kit for my 205 was £50 + VAT a few years ago, and the waterpump another £27. Badge engineering?

To compare a 205 with a forester is sheer ignorance.

1 cam versus 4

Straight 4 vs flat 4.

The engineering to move a belt round a flat 4 is rather more complex than a 205..The number of idlers and tensioners is doubled as a MINIMUM.

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Fri 8 Nov 2013 11:17

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - Andrew-T

"The engineering to move a belt round a flat 4 is rather more complex than a 205..The number of idlers and tensioners is doubled as a MINIMUM."

Thanks for commenting on my ignorance. The fact remains that the cost is much more than doubled, as a minimum. A belt is still a belt, though I admit it may be longer and tougher. Is it many times more expensive to manufacture?

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Fri 8 Nov 2013 12:03

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - madf

A belt is still a belt, though I admit it may be longer and tougher. Is it many times more expensive to manufacture?

Approx 60 bhp in a 205. Approx 170bhp in a Forester - turbo or 150 in a later 2.0

At least twice teh distance to travle, more rapid accelerations etc.

It's like comparing a Subaru to a Peugeot...:-)

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Fri 8 Nov 2013 14:16

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - Andrew-T

madf - accepting that a Forester is a far superior vehicle (perhaps) why do you assume that I am talking about a bog-standard 205? Just to exaggerate your point a bit? 60bhp - there aren't many about now. Most are GTi's with 105 or more.

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Fri 8 Nov 2013 19:27

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - madf

I never said a Forester was superior.It IS more complex. A LOT. 4 cams, 4wd and far better designed.

As for 205 s and GTIs, I am not a mind reader.Most 205s made were not. How do you epxect me to know?

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Fri 8 Nov 2013 21:41

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - jamie745

Sounds like a garage desperate for some extra cash to me.

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Sat 9 Nov 2013 11:35

Any - Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - Andrew-T

As for 205 s and GTIs, I am not a mind reader. Most 205s made were not. How do you epxect me to know?

Same way as you expect me to know about the innards of a Forester? :-) And I seem to recall that the design of a 205 was admired in its day.

Edited by Andrew-T on 09/11/2013 at 11:37

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Sat 9 Nov 2013 13:20

Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - dimdip

madf thanks for the link but that part is for the earlier SF5 model, this one is the SG5. I found a full kit on that site for the SG5 costing £230 including the VAT, so it looks like the garage charged about 20% mark-up – seems legit since the labour charge was reasonable.

To the posters who question the costs, I'm no expert but get the impression Japanese parts have a reputation for being expensive in general, and particularly the lower production volume models I suppose since there'll be fewer pattern-part makers.

The cars are reliable and long-lasting, but there's a price to be paid along the way. The whole tsunami event disrupted supplies as well which didn't help, though that should be sorted by now you'd think...

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Sun 10 Nov 2013 01:58

Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - Lygonos

Keep the Foz unless you're buying a Turbo one ;-)

Unless you're noticing funky levels of clonking from the back I'd not lose much sleep over the bushings deteriorating.

And ~£400 for a belt change and tensioners is a fair price.

Looking at the service history on my turbo forester it appears belt+tensioners cost just under £500 five years ago from a 'specialist' independent.

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Sun 10 Nov 2013 08:54

Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - madf

madf thanks for the link but that part is for the earlier SF5 model, this one is the SG5. I found a full kit on that site for the SG5 costing £230 including the VAT, so it looks like the garage charged about 20% mark-up – seems legit since the labour charge was reasonable.

To the posters who question the costs, I'm no expert but get the impression Japanese parts have a reputation for being expensive in general, and particularly the lower production volume models I suppose since there'll be fewer pattern-part makers.

The cars are reliable and long-lasting, but there's a price to be paid along the way. The whole tsunami event disrupted supplies as well which didn't help, though that should be sorted by now you'd think...

Yes I agree. I have run a Yaris d4d since 205 - and it has been eminently reliable but Toyota parts are not cheap. Fortunately there are very good brake parts of equivalnt quality for much less..

Son bought a 1.0 Yaris dirt cheap and I repalced the timing chain - due to gross abuse (no oil chnages) for 30k miles.

The tesnioner and chain and oil seals cost c £200 BUT it's not a single of suplex chain but around 5-6 chains combined. Very well engineered - (BMW Cooper engines take note).Normally they are good for the life of the car.

Like many things in life you get what you pay for..

I did , however, replace one ABS sensor for £40,, (from Germany) the OE part was £110..

So far the work has last 4 years - now on 130k miles..

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Sun 10 Nov 2013 10:46

Can I ask garage to remove advisory from receipt? - Andrew-T

< I get the impression Japanese parts have a reputation for being expensive in general, and particularly the lower production volume models I suppose since there'll be fewer pattern-part makers. >

As I compared the price of Pug parts earlier, it may be fair to remark that car prices have fallen in real terms - twenty years ago the 205 range cost £6500 to £14500 for the soft-top. Makers have had to compete, and more income now comes from selling parts.

< I have run a Yaris d4d since 205 - and it has been eminently reliable but Toyota parts are not cheap. >

Was this a Freudian slip, or did you mean 2005? :-)

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