Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two.

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 16:13
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - brum

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2460994/Teenage-g...l

A tragic accident, wrong place, wrong time.

However I cannot help thinking why/how a brand new C1 should catch fire, and why the girls could not escape.

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 16:18
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - mss1tw

why the girls could not escape.

Could be the auto lock feature but I thought the door handles were machanically linked to the opening mechanism from the inside. Turned it off on my Berlingo as it's annoying.

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 16:23
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - brum

I thought modern cars had to unlock automatically in a crash.

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 16:41
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - RT

The C1 hit a deer and then veered into a Volvo - depending on the direction of the second impact the occupants may have been unconscious - a side impact may well have ruptured the fuel tank.

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 17:20
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - brum

Side impacts happen all the time. Yes the occupants may have been unconscious, though again with full complement of airbags,tensioners and safety cell I would have thought this unlikely. But if the doors unlock, the volvo driver should have been able to open a door as the effect of a side impact on a door to impede opening has AFAIK been addressed many years ago.

Many accidents also feature fuel spillage, but fires are rare.

This car is also the Toyota Aygo, and Peugeot (whatever), and the NCAP rating was reduced in 2012. I hope a full investigation will establish why these poor victims were not able to survive.

One random thought comes to mind, I wonder if this car had the new a/c refridgerant? Mercedes have identified this as a major fire hazard in crashes (in their tests)

Edited by brum on 16/10/2013 at 17:24

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 17:27
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - daveyjp
C1 doesn't have autolocking. There are so few details in the story I wouldn't even begin blaming the cars involved. It was a crash, sometimes people tragically die.

If they couldn't get out the chances are they were either unconcious, or the damage to the car was so great they were trapped.
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Wed 16 Oct 2013 17:33
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - Bromptonaut

Agree with Daveyjp, not enough to go on ATM. Cars are powered by highly flammable fuel which will inevitably escape and burn in some accidents. Impact with Deer may well have been enough to trap passengers - roof damage etc - before impact with second car.

MAy find out more if there's a report of the Coroner's inquest in due course.

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 17:39
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - A3 A4

Yes, the damage caused by the first impact isn't known. There was a case on the BBC's Motorway Cops a couple of weeks ago where a SAAB hit a horse, the driver being killed in the impact by the torso of the horse hitting the screen and not the front crumple zone.

A C1 is not as substantial as a SAAB, it may have been the case that the occupants were badly injured prior to the second impact, the damage to the Volvo is not that great.

Either way, a tragedy.

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 17:29
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - GHSAUNDERS40
We had an Aygo for years and the doors do not open if the door handle on the inside is pulled and the doors are locked. We challenged Toyota on this and they deemed this to be correct. Our Auris and iQ only open the drivers door from the interior if the car is locked and the interior handle pulled. Very poor design in my opinion.

Edited by GHSAUNDERS40 on 16/10/2013 at 17:31

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 17:35
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - brum
We had an Aygo for years and the doors do not open if the door handle on the inside is pulled and the doors are locked. We challenged Toyota on this and they deemed this to be correct.

That is downright dangerous.

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 17:40
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - dan86

The door locks are like that on alot of cars. But if locked they are ment to open in a crash if central locking is fitted.

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 20:01
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - andy815

I am supprised doors do not unlock in an incident. Lets face it all cars are fire traps, with electric fuel pumps pushing fuel out when the fuel line is broken, overfused equipment etc.

Locking yourself in the car should be optional, just to be used where an when the driver feels unsafe.

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 21:11
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - dan86

It's a anti hijack feature some cars have I personally dont like having my doors locked but my wife does and if it makes her feel safe then thats up to her and it makes me feel better that no one can just open the doors when she's driving at night on her own.

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 20:13
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - Cyd

In an accident, the central locking will be fired to unlock the doors automatically, but the doors will not open automatically. Of course, this does not preclude the possibility that the damage is extensive enough to prevent the doors being opened. Though I think most people would be surprised just how much damage can be done and still open the doors.

Many cars have a system of sill buttons for ordinary use, others use a double pull of the handle. The safety requirement is that the doors must be able to be opened from the outside by a rescuer.

As good as the crashworthyness of modern cars is, it is impossible to engineer cars to guarantee 100% survivability in all circumstances. Many hundreds of people are now surviving crashes which just 30 years or so ago would have been certain killers.

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 23:11
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - Chris M

I can't see where it says it's a brand new C1. The C1/107/Aygo was launched in the mid 90s - it's an old design and a budget car at that. The base versions had two airbags and not much else. Many don't have Central locking.

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Wed 16 Oct 2013 23:19
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - brum

It was her "new car", which admittedly does not mean it was a recent model.

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Thu 17 Oct 2013 09:46
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - skidpan

The C1/107/Aygo was launched in the mid 90s - it's an old design and a budget car at that.

Wrong, very wrong. The C1/107/Aygo were introduced in 2005 the oldest is on a 05 plate.

With regards to C1 vs Deer vs Volvo I suspect there is going to be one winner and 2 loosers. Regardless of the NCAP rating in my opinion the bigger car will always win.

Deer are mostly not a large animal, some breeds are little bigger than a large dog. The Reindeer at Cairngorm are very diffferent, not the be played with.

But the bottom line is there is simply too little information in the article or on this thread to come to any conclusion as to what actually happened.

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Thu 17 Oct 2013 10:16
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - Galaxy

Had a Toyota Aygo for three weeks a few years ago as a courtesy car while my own was being repaired after an accident. I never felt safe in it, so small compared to my Mondeo. Someone I work with says that he doesn't understand why people need to have big cars; I'm very sorry to say this is a prefect example of why, and certainly one of the resons I still drive one myself. This chap, purely by coincidence, also has a C1.

A terrible accident. Two lovely girls lost at far too a young age. Condolences to their familes and friends, and special thanks to the Volvo driver and emergency services who tried to rescue them.

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Thu 17 Oct 2013 11:33
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - Hamsafar

Terrible story. I wonder if it was petrol?
Is it better that we only have diesel and the 90 year olds who die at 87 because of diesel particulates? or only petrol and these terrible tragedies continue?
Of course it's a rhetorical question, but it opens one's eyes to the bigger picture.

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Thu 17 Oct 2013 11:37
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - RT

Terrible story. I wonder if it was petrol?
Is it better that we only have diesel and the 90 year olds who die at 87 because of diesel particulates? or only petrol and these terrible tragedies continue?
Of course it's a rhetorical question, but it opens one's eyes to the bigger picture.

Now that DPFs are standard on new diesels, us younger pensioners can look forward to even longer lives as the diesel particulates of old will no longer be causing cancer.

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Thu 17 Oct 2013 12:05
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - brum

Terrible story. I wonder if it was petrol?

I cant find accident statistics involving fires caused by crashes but I believe these are rare and most car fires are caused by electrical faults. Modern cars have fuel safety cutoffs, plastic tanks that dont rupture easily and the tanks are located in strong safety zones. (not like the pinto era). Even if fuel is spilled, chances are it wont ignite, unlike the Hollywood movies.

Hence my OP, I know we must wait for professional opinion. I hope the inquest does not gloss over this as just a tragic accident, but involves professional crash investigators to see if the fire and inability to access the occupants were things the industry can address in newer designs.

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Thu 17 Oct 2013 13:28
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - Chris M

Thanks skidpan for pointing out my typo. I have a C1 so am aware it's not mid 90's.

I'll stand by my comment that it's an old design though. Small car safety has moved on in eight years. The Up and new Panda, amongst others, will fair far better in an accident.

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Thu 17 Oct 2013 16:58
Citroen C1 - Car Fire kills two. - Auristocrat

Yes it is an old design - but an all new Aygo/C1/108 is due in 2014.

The comment that the NCAP rating had been down-graded isn't accurate - the Aygo was tested by Euro NCAP in 2012, and they deemed that the rating for frontal impact would be the seem as the C1 tested in 2005, so the 2005 test results for frontal impact were used for the 2012 rating.

The current Panda (4 star safety rating as opposed to 3 star for the Aygo) scored better than the Aygo for adult occupant protection, but worse for for child protection, pedestrian protection and safety assist.

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