Interesting that you've chipped your Passat. Do you find that the traction control has a tendency to kick in when pulling away? The 115 bhp Passat I drove had a lot of low-down torque, and "quick getaways" were accompanied by some scrabbling from the front wheels and a flashing TC light every time.
In my area, for £8750, I've seen a yr 2000 115 bhp Passat SE with 68k miles, a 1998 A6 2.5 TDi with around 100k miles - or for a couple of hundred more, a 2000 A4 110 SE with 55k miles.
If I felt confident enough about the Passat, I'd probably choose one of those as I'd get a younger car, almost as spacious as the A6, with less miles for the same money. I was happy enough with the performance of the 115 PD that I drove. It's build quality and the likelihood of breakdowns or malfunctions that I'm concerned about here. If an A6 is less likely than a Passat to develop incurable rattles or just go expensively wrong, I'll hold out for one of those instead. Any more feedback is still both welcome and appreciated!
I used to be indecisive, then I changed my mind ....
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Yes the TC does kick in but only if I overdo the right foot in the damp and then it's quite welcome because it's invariably on joining a busy junction or roundabout "under pressure".
The A6 sounds interesting, 50% more miles than the Passat but then 50% more cylinders to spread the load! You might find the A4 a bit cramped after the others; a friend has the A4 Avant and it's quite a bit smaller than my Passat estate - nice though! I just like the look of the A6, classy but not brash with it. It's incredibly well built and if you consider the level of VW build problems posted just on this site compared to Audi build problems, I guess the odds of you getting a "good 'un" are much improved with Audi.
Good luck
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Sorry for resurrecting this thread again, but something occurred to me. The 1.9 TDI A6 is a bit more available than the 2.5, and for less money too. If I bought a 1.9 and chipped it to 140 bhp, would I lose out in terms of refinement as well as put greater strain on the 4 cyl engine, or would it be a sensible compromise?
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It would still be the nasty and noisy 4 cylinder and the vibration would drive you insane, especially in a car like the A6 which is designed to be quiet. The V6 diesel is much better. The petrols are better still,
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Yesterday I had the chance to drive a pair of A6 Audis back to back, a 1.9 and a 2.5. Both are nice to drive, the engine on the 2.5 is definitely sweeter sounding and is more powerful than on the 1.9, but even the smaller one wasn't all that slow except from a standing start. Funnily enough, the 1.9 seemed to handle better than the 2.5, which wallowed all over the place. On some of the twistier roads, it was VERY wallowy, bouncing up and down, actually scraping against the road even at lower speeds (30). Either the suspension in that one was tired, or SE trim (which was on the 1.9 but not the 2.5) comes with stiffer springs or dampers. Or perhaps the lighter 1.9 engine just doesn't cause the car to pitch as much. Either way, I'll be going for SE trim but if the right 1.9 comes along at a good price, I'll cope with the reduced refinement. In fact, using biodiesel makes the engine sound smoother anyway, so that would alleviate the problem a bit more. But I reckon I'd still probably want to chip the 1.9 to improve performance.
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Yes, there are some soft A6s about and they seem to be the bigger engined ones. I think that there is a stiffer set up but I thought it came with the Sport and as I don't like the seats in those I have never really spent a lot of time finding out.
The 1.9 Tdi will be appallingly slow in normal use. You may not want an petrol but you should try a 1.8T as a comparison. Bootfulls of torque for about 5500 revs.
For a real laugh you may want to try the 2.5 TDi Quattro but it isn't very economical and it will eat tyres.
I would agree that the SE is the best trim. Try to find one with a few value added bits - wood trim ,CD, etc. They aren't worth anything secondhand but they make the car a bit nicer.
Footnote: a while ago I was thinking of getting an A4 Avant for myself (a strange experience to buy things for me but there you go). The salesman made a huge fuss about the 1.9TDi so we took one out for a while. That engine is the main reason we don't have an A4 today. SWMBO drove it once and said it was so dangerously sluggish and noisy that she wouldn't drive it again.
It's your money but you will have the car a long time and you should make the right choice.
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Yes, I think the A6 would be unbeatable if it was available with RWD - now that I'm used to the BMW, I do notice a difference in the way power is put to the wheels. I've previously thought that I'd love to have switchable 4WD - ideally, I'd be able to choose between power at the front for icy conditions, rear for everyday driving and all four for handling. Don't want much, do I!
I respect your preference for petrol engines, but I will not consider a petrol-engined car again until I can use bioethanol for fuel. One of the key reasons I choose diesel-engined cars is because I use biodiesel, a totally renewable fuel with far fewer negative implications for air quality and emissions than either petrol or derv, and whose use helps to prolong dwindling resources as well as gain something valuable from what is considered to be waste. As there's no need to convert a car to its use - just fill and go, effectively - it's the best compromise for me. I also like the fact that in my experience with it so far (over 30k miles), using biodiesel seems to deliver improved performance and refinement over fossil fuel in the same engine. This is why (particularly if chipped) a 1.9 might be an option for me where I would otherwise agree that for a car the size and class of the A6, it would be too underpowered and too rough at lower speeds.
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My last car was a Passat 1.9 TDI Sport. In 2 and 1/2 years and 80,000 miles it did not develop one fault. Brilliant car.
For a change, and because I got a good deal, I changed in September last year to an A6 1.9 TDI - also a very good car. Nice to drive and very comfortable.
Both are good cars in my opinion. I don't understand how people can say they are noisy and agricultural. In fact they are very quiet and powerful. My colleague changed his A4 1.9 TDI to a BMW 1.8 at about the same time as me and he hates it. Too small and no power. He says that when he pulls out on the motorway and puts foot down to overtake, there is nothing there.
On balance, I would have the A6. Very nice car.
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I've driven a Passat 110 TDi (mine is the 115 PD) and although it's noticeably down on power, it's also noticeably smoother than the 115. When I chipped mine, it smoothed out the power delivery a bit and with the extra power I found less need to hold it in lower gears so lower revs equals a bit less noise. I'd have thought an A6 110 chipped to 150 would be a very attractive proposition.
I had my Passat's aircon serviced recently (at a specialist recommended on this site - Readerair, Woking - very good!). The owner of the business said that when they have to remove a dash to get to certain models they are amazed at the integrity of the Audi build quality and attention to detail especially in sound deadening – much, much better than Mercedes in his opinion. So, IMO once warmed up and on the move, I don’t think you’d find the 4 cylinder diesel in the A6 agricultural at all.
A few weeks ago, I managed to blag a Golf GTi for a day. It had 150bhp petrol turbo engine and yes it’s smoother especially at low speeds and quick off the mark but mid range through the gears I honestly reckon my heavier Passat has the edge. At motorway speeds it was no quieter at all (lots of tyre noise – big wheels, low profile tyres) and because the gearing is lower, it’s pulling quite a few more revs at 70 + mph. I had it for the whole day and did my normal drive to work plus another 50 odd miles and driving at the same speeds I normally do I got 30.5 mpg whereas in the Passat I can’t get less than 45 mpg. So I don’t think the 1.8T would offer you anything substantial over the 1.9TDi but the 2.5 TDi would.
I’m enjoying this thread because I’m going to be looking at the A6 to replace the Passat later this year so it’s interesting and really useful to have access to so many informed opinions based on people’s long term experiences rather than just a 2 page road test written by (in the main, petrol head) testers whose opinion was formed before they got in the car.
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Well, I've brought this thread back just to update you with the final outcome. As I had a costly repair recently (which I posted about elsewhere on this forum), it meant my overall budget had to come down by around £1200, at least until I get my money back which could take months through the small claims court. But meanwhile the Clio I'm trading in would lose more value, so I felt it was still best to trade now for something which won't depreciate as hard and maybe look again in a year. I've agreed on a 110 bhp 1999 Passat TDi Sport with 90k on the clock plus a tank of fuel, for my 2001 Clio Dynamique dci with 11k miles and £1100. I'll be getting the remaining 7 months tax back on my car to put towards the tax on the Passat.
I know it's not the best deal I could have got, but the Passat drives well with no rattles, is virtually blemish-free, has full VW history and comes with a 12 month warranty as an approved used car. The warranty will look after any potential problems with suspension or electrics and includes a courtesy car should the need arise, as well as breakdown cover, so there's a little extra security with this one that wouldn't be available with a non-franchised dealer. Only thing it lacks is a CD-changer, but I can get that sorted cheaply enough. Just for comparison, an approved used Audi A6 2.5 TDi SE from early 2000 was quoted at £15k, which I thought was laughable. Thanks to all who gave their advice and opinions, and I'll post if I find any glitches with the Passat - or the dealer!
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I think you've made a good choice. I bought my 99 T Passat TDi 110 bhp SE from BCA last July. It had come off lease, had a high 107K but full VW service history. Since then I've covered 15K absolutely faultless miles. No rattles or problems whatsoever and it handled a trip to Spain effortlessly. I'd recommend a Passat to anyone and with a diesel I'd not worry about high mileages. Mine only cost £6500.
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Well that's everything settled now - I bade farewell to the BMW today, after nearly four months and 6000 miles, about 4000 of which were fuelled on biodiesel. While there was nothing wrong with the car, it only had one airbag, didn't have lumbar adjustment, remote locking, an alarm, a CD player, aircon, or height adjustment on the driver's seat, it only averaged 37 mpg (which for the size and age of car is great, but still isn't 50) and it was just a bit too slow, even on the biodiesel.
So as of today I'm driving the Passat, which is quite a bit quicker, does 55 mpg, is cheaper to insure, is younger, has climate control and multi-adjustable seats, has a 12-month warranty, but doesn't handle as well. I have to admit I've got the taste for the way Beemers drive though, so I'll probably be looking for a good deal on a high-mileage 320d, 330d or 530d in a year or two - so long as it has all the kit I want!
I actually made £200 on the BMW and got further £60 refunded back off the insurance, so I haven't done too badly at all.
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LISTEN TO A GURU....
Both are rubbish (not an exaggeration). The Audi's are as unreliable as the vauxhall vectra and the passat...don't go there.
Visit www.carsurvey.org
Here you will see why I say they are rubbish.
However, if you don't care about reliability and always using a courtesey car as oppose to your own, just ignore this.
NOTE: there are some good examples, but the ones that are problematic outweight the good ones. Just see what the surveys should look like by reading the toyota carina reviews.
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LISTEN TO A GURU.... The Audi's are as unreliable as the vauxhall vectra.....
Why do people keep harping on about how unreliable the Vectra is? Ok, I may now be tempting fate, but I've owned one now for some 18 months and it hasn't even blown a bulb. It's been back to the garage once since I've owned it - that was for it's annual service. The car is now just over 2 years old. In fact I've owned various Vauxhalls since 1985 and the only time one has ever let me down was when the battery connection failed on my Mk3 Cavalier. A quick tighten with the spanner and I was on my way again.
Tell me Dan, what do you drive?
Visit www.carsurvey.org
Are these guys paying you or something? Is it really necessary to add this site to every post of yours?
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I love my Passat 1.8t and Ihated my C5. The difference was when the c5 played up, Citroen had "never heard of this problem before" but when the Passat played up, VW came up front and accepted the problem and offered a fix.
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As a matter of interest, andymc, and possibly a very stupid question, as I don't know which cars can/cannot run on biodiesel.
But, are you using biodiesel with your new Passat, or not?
HF
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I've seen the Car Survey site, (in fact I was reading it yesterday!) and lots of others as well. That site probably has the highest number of negative comments on Passats/Audis of all the sites of that kind that I've seen, but then it does have a lot of input in the from the US, which I wouldn't really pay as much attention to as it's a different market from here and the cars are specified differently in terms of equipment and handling. On balance it seems to me that the Audi A6 would be a better car overall than a Passat, but that an A4 simply isn't worth it - too little space front and rear, no better built. Buy a Seat Toledo or Leon instead. I already have a Leon, which is absolutely fantastic, and I didn't want two near identical cars on the drive! I don't like the look of the Skoda Octavia or that might have been my first choice - I'm no badge snob. I'd definitely consider a used Superb if they'd brought it out 3 years ago.
The Passat isn't bad - the fact that it came with a 12 month warranty and new CV joints (one of the recurring problems with most/all VAG cars for a while) as part of the approved used scheme gives me a bit of peace of mind. They serviced it, did the whole multi-point check, and I got a year's MOT as well as a tank of diesel. It drives nicely and is quite refined with no build quality issues. I would expect a four year old car to have developed a few rattles or squeaks by now, but it's like a new car, so I'm confident that I got a good one. Again, I'd like it to be a little faster and to have sharper handling, but hey - the Leon does this for me. This was the best car I could get for the money I had to spend.
HF, that free tank of fuel hasn't run out yet as I only started driving the Passat again today, so it's still got about 50 litres in it. As soon as I've gone through that, I'll be putting biodiesel in. All VAG (Volkswagen-Audi Group - includes VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda) cars with diesel engines are warranted for using 100% biodiesel, and the engine in this car is exactly the same as the one in my Seat Leon, which has done about 18k on biodiesel without any problems at all.
FYI, most diesel engines can use biodiesel - in fact, I'd say it's impossible to find a modern diesel engine which can't. You drive an Astra TD, am I right? I know that some Vauxhalls have an Isuzu diesel engine, but I don't know if your Astra does or not. My supplier ran biodiesel in his Frontera for around 15000 miles glitch free, so I'd guess it's ok. The only question mark could be over the age of the engine - if it's more than 8 years old it may not be as suitable. Put it like this - has your Astra had any difficulties running on ULSD, aka City Diesel? If not, then it should run fine on biodiesel. What kind of fuel pump does that engine have? Rotary pumps can fail if they have to cope with very viscous fuel. Good quality biodiesel will meet the same viscosity requirements as ordinary derv. What I use is very good quality ;-)
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Andymc, thanks for that.
I'm a little bewildered by all the tech-speak, but nonetheless am attempting to answer you ;)
First, sorry, I only have a D, not a TD. From this site, I have been told that I have an Isuzo engine, and although I have not a clue about that it seems pretty accurate ;)
My car is indeed more than 8 years old - it's a 1992 - so I will take your warning seriously. And, as you know, we have no viable sources of biodiesel here on the mainland anyway, so my question was more out of interest really, rather than practicality.
As for USLD - well, if by City Diesel you just mean normal diesel, then so far I have had no probs. I would not have the knowledge to even hazard a guess as to what pumps I have!
Thanks for your reply to me, as you can see now I am maybe just a tad unknowledgable when it comes to motor-related things - but I am here to learn, so thanks for giving me some information that I didn't yet have :)
HF
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City Diesel (as sold by Sainsbury's) was the first ultra low sulphur diesel (ULSD). Regulations changed a couple of years ago and now I'm pretty certain that all diesel sold in the UK is ULSD. There were concerns that lack of sulphur would lead to additional wear of the injection pump, I don't think this has materialised?
On the continent, the French add 5% biodiesel to their normal fossil diesel. One of the benefits, i understand, is that this improves the lubricity of the fuel. This has led to some enthusiasts in the UK adding a bottle of straight vegetable oil to a normal tank,as a lubricant, though I think this is more to do with 3 litres of Asda cooking oil, costing only £1.30, as opposed to £2.40 for diesel! Of course, this is not legal, as our wonderful HM Customs & Excise would be quick to point out!
Baz
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Hello folks, I'll start a new thread to respond to these biodiesel-related posts just so that the discussion can remain on-topic. See you in "Next fill of biodiesel"!
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Thanks, Bazza, for explaining a little more about this. Of course the cooking oil is very tempting, but I would be the *one* person who HMC&E just happened to stop on the offchance, as they drove through suburban Kent on their way to work ;)
HF
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