VAG 1.9TDi PD AVB - Transmission Oil - Filled For Life? - A3 A4

The gearchange on my 72k '03 A4 is becoming a little notchy, I'm told that the boxes (5 speed in my case) are filled for life, it doesn't appear to be in the service schedule.

And advice appreciated, Is this an easy DIY job?

Edited by A3 A4 on 10/10/2013 at 14:41

VAG 1.9TDi PD AVB - Transmission Oil - Filled For Life? - Fernando P

You should contact a member of the Federation of Automatic Transmission Engineers who will no doubt inform you that the auto gearbox should be "serviced" every 50k miles. This is recommended and involves cleaning the filter, where possible and (part) changing the fluid. I found the charge for this to be reasonable given the quantity of fluid required etc. Any computer re-settings are also dealt with.

VAG 1.9TDi PD AVB - Transmission Oil - Filled For Life? - RT

"Filled for life" is a marketing term, not an engineering one.

It'll be hailed as earth-shattering news the world over if any lubricant is discovered with eternal properties - the cynics will say it happens all the time by designing the component being lubricated to have a service life less than the lubricant !

VAG 1.9TDi PD AVB - Transmission Oil - Filled For Life? - Ordovices

If it's the same box as a Passat 1.9, then there is not a service item to change the fluid. Changing is possible, but it's not as straight forward as draining and topping up (or even checking the level). There is no level indication, you have to put a measured amount in.

I must be one of those cynics, the lubricant doesn't have to be eternal, just last long enough under the most arduous conditions it can expect, ergo filled for the life of the car rather than the life(?) of the lubricant.

VAG 1.9TDi PD AVB - Transmission Oil - Filled For Life? - RT

I must be one of those cynics, the lubricant doesn't have to be eternal, just last long enough under the most arduous conditions it can expect, ergo filled for the life of the car rather than the life(?) of the lubricant.

So you reckon the VAG fluid is good for 250,000 miles in "severe" conditions ?

My recent Hyundai 6-speed is "scheduled" for ATF replacement at 160,000 miles in both normal and "severe" conditions, with no intervening checks - but I have the ATF condition/colour examined every 2 years, which is about 25,000 miles in my case.

Although I tow a caravan, it's not heavy enough or towed far enough to count as "severe" conditions by Hyundai but I'm still expecting to replace the ATF at 50k or 75k - it's not exactly a big cost in the overall scheme of things.

VAG 1.9TDi PD AVB - Transmission Oil - Filled For Life? - elekie&a/c doctor

Can't see that the OP has specified this is a manual or auto box.

VAG 1.9TDi PD AVB - Transmission Oil - Filled For Life? - A3 A4

Apologies, its a manual.

VAG 1.9TDi PD AVB - Transmission Oil - Filled For Life? - Ordovices

So you reckon the VAG fluid is good for 250,000 miles in "severe" conditions ?

Yes. Do you believe that VAG purposefully engineer their gearboxes to fail? If so it would be interesting to see that published in the public domain.

AMS Oil sell a tranny fluid specced for 500,000 miles

SAE 50 Long-Life Synthetic Transmission Oil

"Engineered for 500,000-Mile Service Life in Over-The-Road Trucks"

"Specially formulated to meet the demanding requirements of manual transmissions found in high-torque, heavy-duty line-haul trucks and other commercial applications. Its synthetic base stocks and premium additives help reduce gear and bearing wear, improve shifting and extend transmission life throughout drain intervals of up to 500,000 miles/five years."

Edited by Ordovices on 11/10/2013 at 11:15

VAG 1.9TDi PD AVB - Transmission Oil - Filled For Life? - RT

I thought we were discussing transmission fluid life, not the life of the actual transmission - or have VAG opened an oil refinery lately.

Truck-specification products have no bearing on cars.

If you're happy to believe the "filled for life" slogan then carry on, don't mind me.

Edited by RT on 11/10/2013 at 11:56

VAG 1.9TDi PD AVB - Transmission Oil - Filled For Life? - Wackyracer

The problem is, What is the definition of " a life time". Oil will always wear out as it is used in machinery. The lubricating propeties will become used up and destroyed over time. Gear oils usually use sulphur which coats the contact surfaces of gears but, It can't last forever.

I used to rebuild industrial gearboxes which ran using old 20w50 engine oil and when drained the oil was often like a copper coloured soup. This was fragments of the bronze from the gears but, They were supposed to be filled for life.

VAG 1.9TDi PD AVB - Transmission Oil - Filled For Life? - Cyd

The problem is, What is the definition of " a life time".

You've asked a good question there and I believe I can provide an answer based on 24 years as an Auto R&D Engineer:

Most cars and SUVs are designed to have a lifetime of 12 years or 125,000 miles. This may have been pushed up a little since I left the auto industry 7 years ago.

"Filled for life" would be better expressed as "filled for design life".

If you refresh the oil regularly then you can expect to extend the design life.

Most manufacturers are not concerned if cars start to become unreliable (eg gearboxes break) once their cars are beyond about 3 years past warranty. Cars must be designed to a cost in order remain competitive.

If any product lasted forever, there'd soon be no one left to sell any too once everyone has one.

If I did not believe my own words, I would not have spent 50 quid on 3 litres (well, quarts) of Red Line MTL for my Saabs 6 speed box about a year ago at just under 50k. Despite it being filled for life and having to put in a measured amount as mentioned by someone above. I will be repeating this every 25 to 30k (roughly every 4 years for me).

Of course, I've been accused of being a dinosaur because I also change the engine oil with a full flush every 4k ish (twice a year).

VAG 1.9TDi PD AVB - Transmission Oil - Filled For Life? - Ordovices

If the life of the transmission is expected to be equal to, or less than the transmission lub then that is the life of the lub, unless you decant it from a knackered gearbox into another one.

I believe that sound engineering reason for changing oil is "on condition". Chances are that measuring the condition of an oil would be more expensive than replacing it for average joe. A manufacturer would then be expected to specify a point at which a component (oil in this case) would cease to meet its desired performance (its initial performance may be above expectations, which then yields with time but is still functional). If this component's predicted failure point (plus a measure for tolerance) is after its major asset's anticipated failure point, then why maintain it?

"......don't mind me"

I don't mind you, but I don't like people peddling outdated or uninformed opinion as fact.

I don't quite get the bit about the oil refinery.

So do you think VAG transmissions are built to fail?

The notchiness that the OP is experiencing could just as well be down to wear in the selector linkages

Edited by Ordovices on 11/10/2013 at 17:12

VAG 1.9TDi PD AVB - Transmission Oil - Filled For Life? - RT
I don't quite get the bit about the oil refinery.

So do you think VAG transmissions are built to fail?

No, I don't think VAG transmissions are designed to fail - I'm sure they're designed for very long life - IMO the oil, which VAG don't make, can't be expected to last the life of the transmission.