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The manual does quote high oil consumption - about the comsumption I am getting currently - and that is the excuse the dealer is using for not fixing the problem. Nowhere near as high as your Passat, however, which is acting like a 2-stroke......
In answer to your question, my car has now been into the dealership for no less than 7 warranty repairs, since I bought it new in May 2011. The last three times have been for this oil problem, during which this was the sole reason for bringing the car in.
Is this important?
Other warranty repairs include:-
Steering alignment - tracking was out when the car was delivered from the factory.
Fuel system electronics - shut the car down completely in the middle of nowhere on a Sunday afternoon. The car had to be recovered and carried back to the dealer. Don't get me started on the hassle I had getting a replacement car.......
Entertainment system - three failed attempts to fix a high-pitched distortion in the sound system. I have basically given up on this, as the dealer has admitted that they don't know how to fix it.
I will not be buying and Audi again.
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The manual does quote high oil consumption - about the comsumption I am getting currently - and that is the excuse the dealer is using for not fixing the problem. Nowhere near as high as your Passat, however, which is acting like a 2-stroke......
In answer to your question, my car has now been into the dealership for no less than 7 warranty repairs, since I bought it new in May 2011. The last three times have been for this oil problem, during which this was the sole reason for bringing the car in.
Is this important?
No, I was just curious if any work had been done on the engine that might have caused a thirst for oil.
To be honest, if your oil consumption is within the parameters described in the manual, there's little you can do and I'm surprised the dealer has looked at it repeatedly.
As the car is over 2 years old, this may not help but it just might be worth a punt. Give the car a proper caning for an hour or two on open roads, with wide throttle openings and high loads wherever possible. The oil consumption is likely to be due to the piston rings in one or more cylinders not sealing properly against the cylinder wall. A prolonged 'Italian tune-up' might help them seat a bit better.
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fracdemon, did you run the car in very carefully. If you did there is a slight chance you glazed the bores. Its not very common but if you baby an engine form new it can happen. Only way to diagnose and sort is a strip, rehone, new rings and rebuild. Glazed bores will lead to poor power, poor fule consumption and high oil consumption.
With a new car just drive normally from day one, just don't thrash it for the first 500 miles or labour it ever.
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As a (reluctant) VAG customer and having spent some of my career testing diesel engines, I could offer the following observations:
VAG are obsessed with the longest practicable service intervals consistent with warranty survival. Part of this misguided strategy is the use of an initial engine fill of fully synthetic oil. This can pose real problems for the bedding of piston rings to the honed bores, and gentle initial running on the inital fill risks high oil consumption thereafter due to bore glazing.
My AWX diesel engine was owned by a dealer for the first 20k or so miles, and was very likely thrashed and was certainly left with the initial oil fill. One might intuitively avoid such a car as a second hand purchase - but my experience suggests otherwise. The engine was clearly well run in.
Now at 70k miles, with an oil change at about every 7 - 10k miles, its oil consumption and general running are extremely satisfactory. I top it up with about 250cc of oil between changes and it would actually run to the full change interval without topping up, but for the fact that I never fill it to the top mark (another topic, perhaps).
Commercial diesels are nearly always run in on semi-synth oil to avoid this potential problem.
I have found VAG dealers to be amongst the most unrewarding bunch of people on the planet when dealing with this type of problem - time for divorce, I think. Buying the right engine from them is absolutely crucial - I have found quite a few lemons.
659.
Edited by 659FBE on 03/09/2013 at 16:13
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VAG are obsessed with the longest practicable service intervals consistent with warranty survival. Part of this misguided strategy is the use of an initial engine fill of fully synthetic oil.
This has applied to ALL new cars I have bought in the past 15 or more years although Ford did not use fully synthetic oil in their cars before DPF's. Mini, BMW, Kia and Seat all came with sumps factory filled with fully synthetic and the Mini, BMW and Kia never used a drop, the Seat has used none in 2000 miles..
The Fords I bought after 1999 came with sumps filled with semi-synthetic and the hand books warned that oil consumption could be higher than normal for the first 10000 miles while the engines bedded. On the Puma and Mondeo TDCi this was true, the Focus TDCi never used a drop. The Ford dealer we bought from said "drive it like you stole it".
My bedding in proceedure has always been to drive perfectly normally from day one but with no high revs or full throttle for the first 500 or so miles. I never let an engine labour but with a new engine I always vary my speed on motorways for the forst 500 miles or so.
My competition engines are/were always bedded in on mineral oil for the first 300 miles (changed at 100 miles) then moved onto cheapish semi synthetic for another 300 miles before being filled with the normal high quality oil I am using at the time. They are never babied and the revs are gradually increased along with the throttle openings. These engines are built looser than production engines to speed the bedding in process plus they do not need to do 200,000 miles but oil consumption has still been reasonable, perhaps a couple of litres in 2000 miles.
If people would only read the manual and perhaps dealers gave better info on collection then owners would find fewer issues later in a cars life. As you said, cars driven harder like the one used by a dealer or high mileage rep have fewer problems.
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fracdemon, did you run the car in very carefully. If you did there is a slight chance you glazed the bores. Its not very common but if you baby an engine form new it can happen. Only way to diagnose and sort is a strip, rehone, new rings and rebuild. Glazed bores will lead to poor power, poor fule consumption and high oil consumption.
With a new car just drive normally from day one, just don't thrash it for the first 500 miles or labour it ever.
Skidpan,
I just drove the car normally, as per their instructions. I certianly didn't baby it in anyway, but it's also true that I am not a particularly agressive driver.
I haven't noticed poor power nor poor fuel consumption.
One of the previous relies in the chain suggested an "Italian tune-up". Your thoughts?
To be honest though, my main reason for raising this is to try to gather some ammunition to get the dealer to fix the problem, rather than attempting some remedies myself
Regards
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Latest update as of yesterday.
After calling the dealer once again they have agreed to bring the car back in for another oil comsumoption check, under thw warranty. What they wanted to do was bring it in and check the software, drain and refill the oil, run it for 1000 kms, then drain and emasure the oil again. They wanted to do the 1000 kms in my car, during which I would get a replacement (again, under the warranty).
If they are prepared to go to this expense - rather than dismissing my problem out of hand - then perhaps this tells us something? Perhaps there is an inherent problem, in spite of what the manual says, and right now they are trying to tick all the boxes before proceeding to an engine rebuild?
I accepted the oil comsumption work, but declined their offer of a replacement car. If anyone is going to do 1000 kms in my car, it's going to be me.......
Perhaps I may try your Italian tune-up.....
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Perhaps I may try your Italian tune-up.....
Not my Italian tune up.
Thrashing the living daylights out of the car once a week "may" have had benefits in the days of carburettors, points, clockwork distributors and poor fuel but in these days of high quality fuels and digitally managed engines it will do no good at all. You don't get carbon build up like you did years ago. In the handbook for my first car there were instructions how to carry out a top end decoke, the recomended interval was 30,000 miles. You are luck to get that type of info in a haynes manual nowadays.
A few hundred yards at high revs is not going to repair an engine.
All an italian tune up will do is waste fuel.
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Are we sure that the oil is escaping past the rings? There are many potential areas for oil to escape from, not just worn rings!
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Are we sure that the oil is escaping past the rings? There are many potential areas for oil to escape from, not just worn rings!
To be honest, all I really know is that it is being burned by the engine, as there is no oil in the engine compartment nor on my driveway. Problematic piston rings is simply something that came up as Audi have a history of problems with them. My dealer even admitted that they had significant problems in the past with a "bad batch" of them.
If anyone has experience of different oil comsumption problems with Audis, I would be interested to hear about them.
I think my biggest issue is that Audi claim this kind of comsumption is "normal". I feel badly let down by both this and the other problems I have had with the car. Also, the build quality is quite a bit below my expectations - I feel that I paid BMW or Mercedes prices, but did not get the same quality.
As much as I like the look and feel of the A5 - and it is a great-looking car, no mistake - I will not be buying an Audi again.
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I bought a 2.0 TFSI Q5 a few months ago. From Audi Wakefield, with an Audi warranty.
It had an insatiable appetite for oil, a jerky S-tronic gearbox and shonky steering.
Took in into Audi Stafford.
- They fixed the steering (a linkage)
- They replaced the gearbox mechatronic unit (whatever that is)
- They replaced the pistons, and presumably the rings too.
The steering is now fine. The gears change as smoothly car salesmans patter. And thepistons have yet to rack up 500 miles, so I'll know in a little while how that's gone.
The dealer has been nothing but helpful, I can't fault my treatment. On the other hand, Audi Tamworth, as used by an earlier respondant - awful place. They've even tried selling me semi synthetic oil for my S8. They don't return calls. Cluesless dealer and best avoided.
Things will sometimes go wrong with cars. I guess its the dealer who makes this either a nightmare or straightforward
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The dealer has been nothing but helpful, I can't fault my treatment. On the other hand, Audi Tamworth, as used by an earlier respondant - awful place. They've even tried selling me semi synthetic oil for my S8. They don't return calls. Cluesless dealer and best avoided.
Things will sometimes go wrong with cars. I guess its the dealer who makes this either a nightmare or straightforward
A sane and obvious conclusion. As with driving, it's the human element that usually causes the problems. It's all about attitude.
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The manual does quote high oil consumption
I will not be buying an Audi again.
I have no experience of Audis or any German car for that matter, but the manuals of all the cars I have owned have 'permitted' consumption of the level you mention - just so that when it happens owners cannot claim recompense. Equally, none of the cars I have owned have used oil at anything like that rate unless it has leaked out or gone past piston rings or valve seals. Neither should the car you describe.
I can understand your wish to punish Audi by never buying another, but (a) that is illogical and (b) they won't notice.
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1. I disagree, it is illogical to trust a supplier with your hard earned cash who has let you down once already.
2. Trust me they will notice if ALL of us who are made aware of this problem avoid buying thier cars.
I had to stage a protest at my Audi dealers to any action. www.audi-oil.blogspot.co.uk
Then a local newspaper picked up the story and ran with it. Do not under estimate the power of direct action.
Edited by audi-oil on 10/03/2014 at 17:42
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