It gives me no pleasure to say this....

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
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Sun 1 Sep 2013 19:03
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - AlanGowdy

.... but some years ago when I suggested on the forum that the technology existed to make it inevitable that this would happen one day I was universally either ridiculed or slagged off. It's only a proposal but you know how these things go:

http://news.sky.com/story/1135815/eu-may-order-speed-limiters-fitted-to-uk-cars

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Sun 1 Sep 2013 20:24
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - jamie745

Technology isn't the problem. The fundamentally anti-democracy European Union is the problem. Europe is now run by 27 unelected failed politicians, immune to public opinion, based in a remote organisation.

Solution; leave.

Sorted.

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Sun 1 Sep 2013 20:48
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - Sofa Spud

The main issue here is whether automatically applied speed limits would make the roads safer than they are now. Theoretically they would, as long as the limiters were applied to all vehicles and they worked properly. The main area where limiters could be more dangerous is overtaking. Of course, one should only overtake when it is safe to do so, but drivers do take risks and if someone who does that has to put his (or occasionally her) foot down to get past something, it would be very dangeorus if a limiter then cut in. So there would have to be some sort of safety over-ride.

But rather than speed limiters, it would be better if cars were fitted with data recorders and cameras to front and rear. Then if someone is involved in an accident or stopped for speeding, the footage and data can be recovered as evidence.

One thing that universally applied speed limiters would get rid of is the type of impatient tailgater who tries to get the law-abiding driver in front to break the speed limit just because they want to go faster.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 01/09/2013 at 20:55

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Sun 1 Sep 2013 21:12
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - daveyjp
I note the Mail on Sunday is mentioned. So probably as true as every other EU story they run.
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Sun 1 Sep 2013 21:14
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - jamie745

The main issue here is whether automatically applied speed limits would make the roads safer than they are now.

No it's not. It's about the British Government being powerless to oppose measures imposed on them by an anti-democratic, remote institution run by people who've never stood for election. Whether those people are right or wrong is irrelevant, the fact is they have no legitimacy.

The other main issue is Government intervention in peoples lives. It's about erosion of free will and personal responsibility.

Theoretically they would

France and Germany both had twice as many road deaths last year as Britain. Perhaps they should be focussing on driver training, enforcement, road layouts, public attitudes etc before they resort to draconian measures.

One thing that universally applied speed limiters would get rid of is the type of impatient tailgater who tries to get the law-abiding driver in front to break the speed limit just because they want to go faster.

Yeah, that's a big enough problem worth stripping law abiding people of more civil liberties isn't it.

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Sun 1 Sep 2013 21:37
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - gordonbennet

Remember, as with so many other things wrong in this country, YOU voted for it, so look in the mirror for whom to blame.

Be interesting to see how car drivers cope when they have their own version of elephant racing, which they moan about with lorries constantly, enjoy.

Edited by gordonbennet on 01/09/2013 at 21:39

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Mon 2 Sep 2013 00:00
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - Andrew-T

The other main issue is Government intervention in peoples lives. It's about erosion of free will and personal responsibility. etc.. etc.

What a load of predictable ranting cobblers.

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Mon 2 Sep 2013 07:46
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - madf

Will cost a fiortune to install on roads.

Impossible to retrofit to most cars except for £1000s.

Ain't going to happen until cars are built with the facility installed from new.

And imagine driving abroad with different limits etc.. Standarddised system needed.

10 years away at best.

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Mon 2 Sep 2013 14:37
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - Bromptonaut

It's an idea being floated. Probably just kite flying. PLenty EU states will oppose including likley Germany and France.

Not in my lifetime even for new cars. Too many issues with paralell roads, overbridges etc.

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Mon 2 Sep 2013 14:46
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - Sofa Spud

QUOTE:...""The other main issue is Government intervention in peoples lives. It's about erosion of free will and personal responsibility."

How one drives should have nothing to do with free will. There is a correct way to drive - obeying the rules and following the highway code. There's a personal responsibility to drive correctly on the road.

Free will has more to do with where one chooses to go and when.

QUOTE:...""Yeah, that's a big enough problem worth stripping law abiding people of more civil liberties isn't it.""

Exactly what 'civil liberties' would fitting automatic speed limiters deprive law-abiding drivers of?

While the right to travel might be a civil liberty, the right to drive a car isn't. It's an activity people are licenced to do if they've met, and continue to meet, certain standards.

Furthermore the state controls the road network and makes the rules regarding its use, including construction and use regulations of motor vehicles.

Having said these things, i don't think automatic speed limiting will be introduced - much better to have data recorders on cars, plus cameras, so that in the event of an accident or offence, police can check the data for evidence.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 02/09/2013 at 14:57

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Mon 2 Sep 2013 14:51
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - thunderbird

Remember back a few years. Europe was a number of independant and theoretically democratic countries that regularly went to war and slaughtered each other.

Now we have the EU and we have not had a war since 1945 (ignoring the Balkans which were not in the EU when they slaughtered each other).

We probably still hate each other deep down but which do you prefer, seeing your families march of and be killed, having your homes bombed or being member of the EU.

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Mon 2 Sep 2013 14:56
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - madf

We probably still hate each other deep down but which do you prefer, seeing your families march of and be killed, having your homes bombed or being member of the EU.

UKIP’s MEP candidate for Northern Ireland, Henry Reilly, in this now deleted tweet said:

Support the war on terror -Support Assad - stop Cameron -

Which tells you all you want to know about UKIP.

Edited by madf on 02/09/2013 at 14:57

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Mon 2 Sep 2013 19:48
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - unthrottled

Now we have the EU and we have not had a war since 1945 (ignoring the Balkans which were not in the EU when they slaughtered each other).

1.)My dad was born in 1945.

2.)There hasn't been a major European war since 1945.

3.) Ergo, my dad is responsible for peace in Europe.

The latter syllogism is no less silly than the former.

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Tue 3 Sep 2013 00:17
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - Andrew-T

1.)My dad was born in 1945.

2.)There hasn't been a major European war since 1945.

3.) Ergo, my dad is responsible for peace in Europe.

The latter syllogism is no less silly than the former.

We.e.e.ell - Your dad and the EU may have equal importance within your family, but I don't really think that applies to the rest of us. I would prefer to think that the EU has probably done more to prevent nations attacking each other?

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Tue 3 Sep 2013 00:53
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - unthrottled

I would prefer to think that the EU has probably done more to prevent nations attacking each other?

No, I prefer to think that neither is responsible for peace in Europe. Military conflict between functional democracies is very rare-in or out of the EU. Developed nations do not wish to engage in full blown wars because they have too much to lose by doing so.

The majority of the post WWII peace era has exited without the medling of the EU. In fact the only conflict between European nations exists due to to the European Union's incessant interference in domestic affairs.

The 'Peace in Our Time' claim is unfalsifiable scaremongering lazily propagated by EU aficionados as a substitute for any tangible achievements.

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Tue 3 Sep 2013 01:43
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - julie page

Remember back a few years. Europe was a number of independant and theoretically democratic countries that regularly went to war and slaughtered each other.

Now we have the EU and we have not had a war since 1945 (ignoring the Balkans which were not in the EU when they slaughtered each other).

We probably still hate each other deep down but which do you prefer, seeing your families march of and be killed, having your homes bombed or being member of the EU.

But this is nonsense.

Up until 1973 EU consisted of only 6 countries and until 2004 15, and even now there are only 27, so why are these who are outside the Eu not at war?

Up until the 90s a large part of Europe had nuclear weapons pointing at each other.

Russia is a large part of Europe too

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Tue 3 Sep 2013 01:18
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - julie page

The main issue here is whether automatically applied speed limits would make the roads safer than they are now.

No it's not. It's about the British Government being powerless to oppose measures imposed on them by an anti-democratic, remote institution run by people who've never stood for election. Whether those people are right or wrong is irrelevant, the fact is they have no legitimacy.


Fact is it is the British who go overboard with HS, I worked in a distribution centre a few years ago and watched Dutch, French, German lorries being refused entry because their drivers did not have a reflective jacket, was wearing saddles instead of safety boots, shorts instead of trousers and so on.

Yet the UK drivers gad to wear a tie!!

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Mon 2 Sep 2013 17:14
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - coopshere
Oh come back George Orwell, you made it all sound so simple!!
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Mon 2 Sep 2013 22:00
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - barney100

Can't see how it could be made foolproof. Plenty of clever sixth formers will for their own amusment soon circumvent any such scheme.

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Mon 2 Sep 2013 22:12
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - carr

Papers like the Mail or Torygraph never let the facts get in the way of a story about their obsessive hatred of thel EU

The EU has a blog debunking UK press stories. Their response to this report is here..

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/reports-of-brussels-big-brother-bid-to-impose-speed-controls-are-inaccurate-beyond-the-limit-2/

Key point is

“The Commission has not tabled – and does not have in the pipeline – even a non-binding Recommendation, let alone anything more.


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Fri 6 Sep 2013 03:01
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - jamie745

Papers like the Mail or Torygraph never let the facts get in the way of a story about their obsessive hatred of thel EU

The Daily Express is the only openly anti-EU paper. Even the Torygraph is on the softie softie side.

The EU has a blog debunking UK press stories. Their response to this report is here..

Yes I saw the EU is using our own money to tell us why our own press are wrong. They're also employing people to scan social media and 'correct' anybody who dares criticise the union.

Key point is

“The Commission has not tabled – and does not have in the pipeline – even a non-binding Recommendation, let alone anything more.

That's not the key point at all. The key point is that if the Commission managed to get a binding recommendation passed, no British Government could do anything about it.

The other key point is the Commission has the sole right to introduce legislation and the entire Commission is unelected - most of them are politicians voted out of office in their member states.

In my view; the only people who should have the power to table anything of the sort are the people we directly elect to that big building in London.

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Fri 6 Sep 2013 14:37
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - carr

Personally I think it's better to spend money explaining where press articles are blatant lies rather than sucking up to journalists to spin you into office.

What else is to be expected though? The first casualty of any conflict is truth.

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Fri 6 Sep 2013 18:22
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - jamie745
I would rather we stopped spending £53million a day of taxpayers money on membership of the union, so as what the press said about it wouldn't matter.
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Mon 2 Sep 2013 23:57
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - Smileyman

very pleased to note it's not going to happen - I had no deisre to pay using my hard earned cash to have a speed limited in the vehicle that would make overtaking more dangerous ..... unless of course it made slow coach drivers keep up with the rest of the motoring world instead of being a dangerous brake on safe progress for the majority.

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Tue 3 Sep 2013 14:17
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - wrangler_rover

There is one positive that will come it this is introduced:

All speed / safety cameras will be made redundant as vehicles will be automatically limited to the speed limit. Or is this taking a view through rose coloured glasses?

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Wed 4 Sep 2013 18:30
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - markweatherill

I think the government should employ civil servants to remotely pilot all road vehicles hence solving all congestion, speeding and road deaths instantly. The only problem is who will drive them to work?

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Fri 6 Sep 2013 02:36
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - jamie745

Now we have the EU and we have not had a war since 1945

We probably still hate each other deep down but which do you prefer, seeing your families march of and be killed, having your homes bombed or being member of the EU.

There are 193 countries in the World. 166 of them are not in the European Union. How many of the 166 are currently at war?

Since the EU cannot defend their record on economics, the single currency or democracy, the last resort to justify their own existance is 'yeah well without us there would be war.' It is absolutely pathetic and anybody with access to a library should see through it.

Do you seriously think a democratic, post war Germany would've invaded somebody? Tell me which German leader would've done that. Helmut Schmidt? Willy Brandt? Gerhard Schroder? Seriously?!

(ignoring the Balkans which were not in the EU when they slaughtered each other).

I b***** well will not ignore the Balkans because it's a prime example of why the EU should be disbanded. Yugoslavia was a pseudo state, set up by bureaucrats who decided all those nations should have one flag, one anthem and one leader - all without giving any of the citizens any say in any of it. Sound familiar?

The EU's already got the anthem. It's got the flag. It's got the unelected President and none of us have been asked if we want it.

It's not as simple as 'they slaughtered each other.' Yugoslavia broke up into smaller states with which it's people identify. Since Serbia & Slovakia got their own flags, anthems, democracies and demos, they've stopped shooting each other.

Remember back a few years. Europe was a number of independant and theoretically democratic countries that regularly went to war and slaughtered each other.

Is this what GCSE history teaches people now? That democracy is the cause of war? Because that's what you're saying. Europe didn't regularly go to war and slaughter each other, Germany invaded France 3 times in 70 years and to credit the EU with that ending is quite disgusting.

Which tells you all you want to know about UKIP.

It tells me that specific candidate (who I've never heard of) has bad judgement. Why don't you apply the same level of scrutiny to the Labour Party who have former National Front members and current BNP members sitting as councillors for them? Show me some tweets of theirs.

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Fri 6 Sep 2013 02:44
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - jamie745

Exactly what 'civil liberties' would fitting automatic speed limiters deprive law-abiding drivers of?

Oh that old argument. The if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear argument. Yeah, fed up of that one now. Try again.

Having said these things, i don't think automatic speed limiting will be introduced - much better to have data recorders on cars, plus cameras, so that in the event of an accident or offence, police can check the data for evidence.

There's enough cameras in this country. We don't need more.

There's a personal responsibility to drive correctly on the road.

Personal responsibility which you'd like to remove, as you do come across as very totalitarian.

Remember, as with so many other things wrong in this country, YOU voted for it, so look in the mirror for whom to blame.

I f***ing well didn't Gordon. In terms of EU influence, the only people who voted for that are the political elite who made an awful lot of money out of it. Nobody under the age of 56 has been asked for their opinion on EU membership and even those over 56 who did have a say were lied to in the 70s.

I'm 29. My country was surrendered to Brussels before I was born and Tony Blair had been given a second term before I could vote.

Your fault. Not mine.

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Fri 6 Sep 2013 10:00
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - skidpan

jamie745

I do not know if you believe any of the nonsene you write or if you are just a Troll that likes to start arguments.

If its the former you need to study history and learn the true facts.

If its the latter you should be banned.

Which is it?

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Fri 6 Sep 2013 10:38
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - gordonbennet
I'm 29. My country was surrendered to Brussels before I was born and Tony Blair had been given a second term before I could vote.

Your fault. Not mine.

If you vote for a pro EU party, in other words either of the lib lab con one party with three heads anti British parties then you vote for more of the same.

No not my fault either, i haven't voted for the lib lab con since the first term of Thatcher, from then all became clear if you ignored the propaganda

You don't get asked in a 'democracy' like Britain if you want our country to be governed by unelected people over the channel, you automatically give them the authority to carry on old chap when you vote for a pro EU party, in other words the current cabal of three stooges.

People continue to vote unthinking tribal like for the same three parties who have not a genuine patriotic bone in their bodies, we the whole electorate get the government we deserve, watch and weep as our country slides further round the U bend.

When you vote lib lab con at the next election, you will yet again give them your approval to carry on as usual, it will get what you voted for, all of you.

I find it all quite funny to be honest, however i doubt the millions of good men and women lying in foreign graves long before their time keeeping this country free from foreign rule find it quite so amusing, when our political class, countersigned by our sovereign wihtout a word of protest, gave it all away without a shot being fired.

As i said, look in the mirror after the next election, thats who to blame.

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Fri 6 Sep 2013 10:44
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - dan86

slides further round the U bend.

Shouldn't that be the EU bend. ;-)

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Fri 6 Sep 2013 10:47
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - gordonbennet

Very good Dan.:-).

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Fri 6 Sep 2013 14:48
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - carr

How is it that Germany doesn't slide down the U bend? Is it in a different EU?

If the UK ever left the EU they would quickly have to find another reason why the country always seems so unhappy and the last place it would look is in the mirror.

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Fri 6 Sep 2013 19:03
It gives me no pleasure to say this.... - jamie745

If you vote for a pro EU party, in other words either of the lib lab con one party with three heads anti British parties then you vote for more of the same.

If you actually look at voting figures and election turnouts, you'll see fewer and fewer of us are voting for the LibLabCon and fewer people are signing up as members of the parties.

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