Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
Had an accident last night. Got caught out by a bit of ice. Lost it. Car wrecked. Police had it taken away as it leaked oil and blocked road. Hit a lamp post which sustained some minor damage. Not sure what to do. there are a number of things i want to remove from the car to give/sell to friends. Should i get the car dropped somewhere by the people that removed it from the roadside, strip it, and then scrap it? Just wondering if you know about the implications of damaging council property? Insurance in my dads name, and he isnt to happy about claiming (fully comp policy). I guess i need to get it removed from where it is now preety soon to avoid huge costs?

Any comments appreciated.

If i can get the bits off, i should have some mk.2 goodies for sale at very reasonable prices. Good suspension brakes and a few other bits. So drop me an e-mail if interested.

Ben Chapman.
Help- accident last night. - Nsar
Your car is totalled and you're wondering whether to make a claim? I think you'll be hearing from the council's insurers anyway. Dodgy.
Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
So you think i will have to claim?

Thanks for response.
Help- accident last night. - joe
you have damaged third party property so you have to tell the police, otherwise you may get done for not reporting.
Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
I managed to do that. Lorry driver witnessed accident, and called the cops for me. Just wondering how i can get bits off my car. Presumably i cant touch the thing untill an assesor has seen it if i am forced to make a claim?

Ben
Help- accident last night. - pmh
Cost of a 'tall' lamp post on the A1 dual carriageway nr Sandy, Bedford, including a midnight call out to make safe, closing the road Sunday am to recover lamp post and subsequent replacement £875 + VAT.

A reasonable price! I thought. (April 2001)

pmh (was peter)
Help- accident last night. - Armitage Shanks{P}
I may be wrong but if you are going to make a claim you had better not remove parts of the car as that will afect the pay out and, in the long run, the wreck will become the property of the insurance company, although it is yours right now. The insurance company may offer to sell you the wreckage but I think they may want more for it than you could get by breaking it up and selling the bits. Do you have a good workshop? Sorry about the accident, I guess most backroomers have had some sort of disaster in their motoring lives. This is yous and let's hope you don't have another!
Help- accident last night. - tone
Slightly off topic, but years back a friend aquaplane coming off coventrys ring road (the junction that goes past the tech college, for anyone interested). They hit a lamppost in the central reservation and needed an ambulance, who turned up first?the b***** council they wanted to move the injured person and the car so they could start work on the lamppost
Help- accident last night. - M.M
Ben,

Really sorry to hear you've done this...it happens.

You need to sit down with Dad and think very carefully about this.

It was his insurance so "obviously" it is his car and his decision as to how it is resolved...right!

You need to speak to the local authority and get an idea of the lamp repair...it may be a lot as mentioned above.

How much value would you put on your Dad's MK.II? You have to add that replacement cost to the lamp repair and then work out the likely extra cost to your Dad for the next few years premiums.

Last thing to do is run about after the car so soon and start to take bits from it. That is a decision for the end of the saga once the claim/finances are decided.

Good luck,

MM
Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
Well its mine really, and its a mk.2 Jetta 16v, so its virtually worthless. However, it has full Corrado vr6 brakes including master cylinder and servo, Bilstein sport dampers, h&r springs, quickshift, decent head, highlift inlet cam, vernier pulley, corrado g60 15" wheels etc. Problem is, i cant find anywhere to dump it while i rip the bits from it.

Ben
Help- accident last night. - borasport20
ben
for your sake, i hope you declared all these mods to the insurance company ?

if not, you may be in for a tough time


I have to grow old - but I don't have to grow up
Help- accident last night. - blank
Ben:

Please read and digest what MM says about sorting out this mess with your DADs car!

Andy
Help- accident last night. - mal
I was involved in an accident and my totalled car was taken to recovery compound while I went to hospital for check up.
My car had an expensive stereo system which was not going to leave in the car. After informing the ins.co. of this they told me they would deduct the cost of a standard unit from the final settlement which was ok by me.
When arrived at the compound I was alarmed to find that my car had been ransacked and the system and all its wiring was in the middle of being removed. When I questioned the owner about this he said someone must have climbed over the fence overnight. I arranged to be present when the ins.co assesed the car and when he found the spare was missing said he would have to make a deduction for this also, I questioned the owner about this and he remembered taking it out for safe keeping but in view of the fact that he lived on the premises and had the standard free- roaming barking black doberman I did not believe his story.
Mal.
Help- accident last night. - Tony N
Best thing to do is get the motor back and strip it if you've got somewhere to keep it and your not going to claim for it - the council claim won't affect this as they're a third party, however their claim will still knacker your no-claims unless you stump up the cash yourself. Same as your wheels and stuff, I doubt it'll make a difference to the insurance company as there was no other vehicle/person involved. Its always worth pulling the decent bits off a dead car as selling them can lesson the blow a bit and its suprising how much people will pay for some things. The one thing to watch out for is that the old bill may prosecute if they think your to blame, they're good like that...
Help- accident last night. - matt35 {P}
Ben,

Sorry to read about your write off....I am sure you are not alone on this BB.
When the shock passes, learn from what went wrong - maybe make you a far better driver for the rest of your life?
Your old man is naturally angry, but I am sure he would agree that you cannot buy a fully comp. policy for losing a son.

Regards,

Matt35
Help- accident last night. - Simon
Well if you are covered with fully comp insurance then you haven't got to worry about the recovery and storage costs as the insurance will pick this bill up, obviously as long as you claim on your insurance.

As for the bits on the car such as the wheels, suspension and the brakes etc then have you been and had a look at the car yet? If the car has had a good whack and has been sliding around on ice and bouncing off lamp posts, then it is quite likely that a wheel or too may well have been damaged by the kerb or lamp post and thus render the set of alloys worthless. Have any of the wheels been ripped off or badly bent? If so has the fancy suspenion been damaged.

As long as you have declared all of these mods to the insurers then you will be fine. If not then they may be a bit funny about paying out. In regard to you being able to remove some of these fancy bits before the car is scrapped then it is likely that you can come to a deal with the insurance company where they will allow you to retain possession of the car but obviously they will not pay out the full value of the car to you.

Help- accident last night. - andymc {P}
Insurance in your dad's name means that he is the main driver of the car. If the insurance company were to decide that you were the main driver of the car, they could well refuse to pay out a single penny. However, since YOUR DAD is the main driver of the car and NOT YOU, this situation shouldn't arise.

Suggest you spend as much time as it takes to read through any of the posts on this site that relate to insurance claims, accidents, etc. Obviously this will be time consuming, but a lot of useful information is archived here. If anyone can remember the name of any particular threads which may be of use they might post reminders if they want to help. Good luck.
Help- accident last night. - Jonathan {p}
with andymc's comments in mind, it is also important to know that if your dad is the main driver, he should also be the owner and registered keeper of the vehicle. This is a question that is always asked when obtaining insurance quotes.

Just ask Mark (RLBS) about what can happen if the insurance company decides to cancel your insurance.

Jonathan
Help- accident last night. - JamesH
It is possible with some insurers e.g Eagle Star to choose the second driver to be the main driver. However, I know someone who did this and even then the insurer was funny about having a different policyholder to the main driver at the time of a claim.

Only if you are down as the main driver and the insurers knows about all the mods then the claim would go smoothly.

It may be much easier to claim for the third party costs whatever the situation. The tow-truck driver may add his costs to the claim bill.

If there were at least 3 years NCD at the last renewal, you may still have some next time. Many insurers give no bonus for the claim year but step down the previous amount by 2. If there were 4 years NCD at the last renewal, it is possible there will still be 1 next time.

I'm young myself and have had to fork out plenty for my own insurance. As your dad's policy will be hit, maybe the next renewal would be a good opportunity to get your own policy. I'm with Elephant and no-one could come close to the premium.

James
Help- accident last night. - J Bonington Jagworth
Sorry to hear about your prang. I don't want to cause unnecessary alarm, but the police may try to have you for due care and attention. You can be sure they will have looked the car over carefully for worn tyres or 'contributory factors' too. The car is only yours to play with if you don't claim, but the insurers will have to know, unless you intend to settle the council's bill!

Sorry to sound gloomy, but in my early driving career, I had two (sober) incidents with no other vehicle involved, and was prosecuted on both occasions. In your case, the lorry driver may be useful to you, but obviously I hope that isn't necessary.
Help- accident last night. - Rebecca {P}
I just can't help making this comment.

Ice on the road?! On a day/night where record temperatures (for the time of year) were noted in several parts of the country?

Think carefully about this when your Dad submits his claim. The insurance co's will no doubt have records of the prevailing weather conditions.
Help- accident last night. - Mark (RLBS)
omigoodgod.

Firstly, if you haven't told the insurer about the customised bits, then forget claiming. You really don't want to get involved in that mess. And that will mean that you won't be able to claim for the street light either. So if you haven't told them, then other than advising them of an incident for which you will nto be claiming, I wouldn't even *try* to claim.

They will certainly reject the claim and may well cancel your insurance - and that is really bad news.

Secondly, how many times do I warn of the dangers of insurance in your parents name ? If they find out that you are the owner, if the find out that your Father has another vehicle, if they find out that you are the main user, then you are going to be dealing with a whole bunch of confusion, mess, and no claim.

Make of that what you will.

But put the insurance in your name, for goodness sakes. You are right on the verge of finding out what false economies can be made with insurance.
Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
My dad is the registered owner of the vehicle on the v5. Insurance is in his name. He has the car for about 6 months of the year. He doesn not have another car, and i have have stated repeatedly he has access to another vehicle to the insurures. They appear happy with this. Do you still think i could have a problem in the future with an arrangement like this?

Ben
Help- accident last night. - Mark (RLBS)
Assuming that what you say is true, and assuming that the insurers have documented it, then no, you should not have a problem. However, it would be, at the very least, surprising. Although if they have rated it upon you then that would probably be ok.

Have you told them the vehicle is modified ? Because if not then you're stuffed anyway.

Assuming that you have told them about the modifications, and I'd bet a pint you haven't, then you may be quite ok.

Is there anything on the policy, or proposal for, to show that you have advised them ?
Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
They were informed of most of the modifications. Would sporty dampers make a claim invalid?

Ben
Help- accident last night. - Dynamic Dave
They were informed of most of the modifications. Would sporty
dampers make a claim invalid?


I asked the CIS (CO-OP) about this when I fitted Spax adjustables to my old Cavalier. They weren't interested. If anything, they said that it would make the car safer to drive as no doubt the handling would be improved! However a different insurer might have a different view. Like maybe "Hmmm sir, yes it might be safer to drive now you've sorted out the handling, but this could also encourage you to drive faster and have more accidents!"
Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
Accident happened in Gateshead at about 1am. Outside temp in police T5 read 2 deg. There was high wind chill. The officer agreed ice was possible, as the road had just been gritted. The salt causes the moisture to rise to the surface, where it could freeze. There wsa an accident in the same place two days preivously.
Think i should be ok about the lamp post. Found someone to move the car, but cant find anywhere to stick it for a day or two while i get all the bits off. Anyone have any ideas in the north?

I would just like to say thank you to all who responded, your help was appreciated. I really had no idea what happens in an accident like this- this is my first accident in 5 years of driving.

Ben
Help- accident last night. - mark
I'm sure some of the "old time" backroomers will remember a certain "mechanic" who was located in Gateshead and who owned a "garage" who we could recommend.

However I feel to do so would only be adding to Ben's woes.

as ever

Mark
Help- accident last night. - Rebecca {P}
*laughs out loud!*
Help- accident last night. - BrianW
That thought had entered my mind but I thought that it was better left there!

Brian
Still learning (I hope)
Help- accident last night. - Blue {P}
Sorry, I could have sworn that I'd posted here.

If you are not claiming, which it sounds like you're not, and want the name of a reasonable, cheap bodyshop just let me know, they have worked on my old car after a break in. They seemed good and their prices were very competitive.

Having said that, from what you've said the car sounds like it may be un-repairable.

Blue
Help- accident last night. - mal
His perpetual motion machine,ladas, and whatever crazy idea he's currently working on will probably be occupying all available space no doubt!.
Mal.
Help- accident last night. - Alfafan {P}
Remember "C.W." Moss in Bonnie & Clyde? I just wonder....
Help- accident last night. - Nsar
I think this request may be in vain, but for those of us new to the Back Room, can someone translate these last few nudge, nudge wink, wink posts?
Help- accident last night. - BrianW
There was a frequent contributor until banned about 3 months ago called (amongst others) "Ladas are Cool" whose personality changed from hour to hour and was contentious , who was based in the Newcastle/Gateshead area.

Brian
Still learning (I hope)
Help- accident last night. - Alfafan {P}
In an earlier incarnation his initials were CW (I won't write the name).
Help- accident last night. - mal
The officer
agreed ice was possible, as the road had just been gritted.
The salt causes the moisture to rise to the surface, where
it could freeze.


This does not make any sense at all to me.
Mal.
Help- accident last night. - Nsar
Me neither - salt lowers the temp at which water freezes - if my 20 year old schoolboy physics is right, to minus 4 degrees. This is such a weird story.
Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
I just regurgitated what the officer said to me. Gritter truck drove down the opposite side of the dual carriage way just after I hit the lamp post. Surely the salt would only lower the temperature at which the water freezes once it had dissolved? I still don?t really know what happened. The road bends around in an s shape; went round the first part ok, then turned into the second part and no grip.

Can anyone advise on any decent driving books? I have one titled professional race driving secrets, but it doesn?t mention anything like left-foot breaking etc that HJ mentions on this site.

Help- accident last night. - matt35 {P}
Ben,
There are probably 40 years of an age difference between you and me.
I posted earlier in this link about learning from your accident.
Get a copy of 'ROADCRAFT' as soon as you can - I think WH Smith have it.
If you are serious about your driving, join your local IAM group and, if you face any charges, personally attend the court,accept that you have made a bit of a mess, tell the court that you have joined the IAM.
I don't know if this will get your a*** out of a sling (Mark - more fluffy dice?) but if you really wish to learn from your mistake, Roadcraft is where you should start.

Good Luck,

Matt35
Help- accident last night. - Dwight Van Driver
There posts the musing of a Sage.

DVD.
Help- accident last night. - matt35 {P}
DvD,

Thanks, but the rest of the thread makes it feel a wee bit like a waste of time...maybe before Ben has his next accident, he should print this lot and have another read at some of the comments?

Matt35.
Help- accident last night. - Flat in Fifth
Can anyone advise on any decent driving books? I have one
titled professional race driving secrets, but it doesn't mention anything like
left-foot breaking (sic) etc that HJ mentions on this site.



Jeepers, saints alive!

Ben, left foot braking is NOT a technique for road use except in the context HJ talks about which is using an automatic. Even then I have my doubts except in low speed manoeuvring.

The left foot braking technique you are talking about should be confined to race track and special stage. If you are driving at such a pace that this technique is worthwhile then IMHO you are driving too close to the limit than is comfortable on public roads.

That is, of course, assuming that you have the brakes set up so that left foot braking will actually be an advantage. The typical fwd car, even with modified brakes does not have the right front rear characteristics. Seeing as Mark is betting a pint I'll wager another that your, sorry Dad's, Jetta does NOT have a balance bar pedal box with split circuits.

Is my pint safe?

Help- accident last night. - Toad, of Toad Hall.
Matt: You're minus 23 years old?

Flat in FIfth: Why does that whole whole passage read like a challenge to anphibians to try left foot breaking and get away with it??? ;-)
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Help- accident last night. - matt35 {P}
Toad,
My wife thinks so sometimes.
Matt35.
Help- accident last night. - NWS
Let's recap...
He wrecks his dad's car and a lampost and his first point of reference for advice is a web-site
He may or may not be insured because of his Max Power mods
He may or may not have a claim against him from another insurance co.
He doesn't know whether a road is icy or not
He is principally interested in flogging bits off his dad's car before the authorities can get a look at them
He's interested in developing his left foot braking technique

I'm pretty new to this forum, so I may be a bit too forthright here, but prolonging this thread means he's continuing to get odd bits of info in answer to his scatter-gun questions off the web instead of getting down to the serious business of sorting out this mess directly with the cops, the insurers and the council.
I'm sorry for you, I'm glad no-one was hurt but you need to get down to business.
Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
Ok this will be my last post on this web-site.

The car is/was mine. I posted here because people used to offer lots of helpful advice.

Max Power- i am not a fan of this magasine, and take offense at your use of this comment. Why is replacing worn out shock absorbers with higher quality units, and fitting better brakes max power?

As far as i know i do not have a claim pending. I have asked the police, and sat in the town hall for hours trying to acertian what is happening. They were unable to give a deffinative answer, so i asked here in case anyone else had had similar experiences, and could offer useful constructive advice.

Ice- how am i to know exactly what the car skidded on. Do you expect me to get out of the car and take a look at the ground in the dark to try and find out whether it was water, ice, oil, gravel or something else. Furthermore, i wasnt particularly concerned with analysing the tarmac after hitting a lamp post at 40 mph or whatever speed it was.

I was intersted in selling bits from MY car to minimise the loss i had sustained. What is wrong with that? I thought i might be able to offer people bits they may want at very reasonable prices.

Reggarding the brakes. Mk.2's fitted with rear disks do have a proportioning valve that allows you to adjust braking effort between the front and rear brakes. I do not understand why people say it is dangerous to use any of the advanced techniques mentioned. I often break into corners using my left foot. Just because i practice employing these techniques does NOT mean i drive the limit on the road. I racing driver i know advised i practice a number of techniques on the road. Smooth gear changes are essential for fast track driving, and no one would say these shouldnt be practised on the road. Why should i not practice smoothly transfering weigh of the car while it takes a set on the road?? this doesnt have to be done on the limit. I was just intersted in driving techniques. How is it best to use left-foot braking mid-corner, for example? Surely one will be a safer driver if one knows how to handle a car in a slide mid corner or skiding on ice, or whatever unexpected hazard may arrive next time you step inside your car.

I have already read nearly all of the literature available from the IAM. I have been driving for 4.5 years, and have driven many powerful cars, and not had the slightest bump before.

Ben
Help- accident last night. - TrevorP
"How is it best to use left-foot braking mid-corner, for example?"

It is not. EVER.

"I often break into corners using my left foot."

You do WHAT?

"Surely one will be a safer driver if one knows how to handle a car in a slide mid corner or skiding on ice"

Probably - but your idea of "advanced techniques" obviously is wide of the mark. Literally.

Help- accident last night. - Flat in Fifth
Flat in FIfth: Why does that whole whole passage read like
a challenge to anphibians to try left foot breaking and get
away with it??? ;-)
--



Toad old bean, me old mucker, me old china,

Just take your Toadster along that lovely curving and challenging driveway from Toad Hall. Give it some amphibian right welly, and then on the approach to a bend try left foot braking (henceforth LFB) and tell me what happens.

Are you any quicker round the corner?

Well it does reduce the time that foot takes from brake back onto gas, but other than that?

On a race track you can be sure that you know what gear to be in and have good idea of braking and gearchange points but on the Toad's highway, not mention the Queen's version. So how does one deal with the fact that you might just be in the wrong gear. Maybe the anphibian feet can cope but what about amphibians?

Does the LFB allow you to set the car up into a better cornering attitude?

Without a balance bar pedal box I see no point in even trying. If you were to give a tweak on the handbrake in moments of extremis now you're talking. ;-)

I'm sure you can actually LFB and get away with it. But my point to Ben is that I believe that this technique has no place on the public highway. Just another version of 210 on the M25.

But what can I say to stop you Toad. Actually Demon Tweeks has a nice line in pedal boxes in case you're serious. Wouldn't want you to left foot brake and end up with a left foot break.

tatty bye
Help- accident last night. - Toad, of Toad Hall.
Toad old bean, me old mucker, me old china,
Just take your Toadster along that lovely curving and challenging driveway
from Toad Hall. Give it some amphibian right welly, and then
on the approach to a bend try left foot braking (henceforth
LFB) and tell me what happens.
Are you any quicker round the corner?
Well it does reduce the time that foot takes from brake
back onto gas, but other than that?
On a race track you can be sure that you know
what gear to be in and have good idea of braking
and gearchange points but on the Toad's highway, not mention the
Queen's version. So how does one deal with the fact that
you might just be in the wrong gear. Maybe the anphibian
feet can cope but what about amphibians?
Does the LFB allow you to set the car up into
a better cornering attitude?
Without a balance bar pedal box I see no point in
even trying. If you were to give a tweak on the
handbrake in moments of extremis now you're talking. ;-)
I'm sure you can actually LFB and get away with it.
But my point to Ben is that I believe that this
technique has no place on the public highway. Just another version
of 210 on the M25.
But what can I say to stop you Toad. Actually Demon
Tweeks has a nice line in pedal boxes in case you're
serious. Wouldn't want you to left foot brake and end up
with a left foot break.


Thanks for the spelling lesson FinF. I'm not dyslexic - I type fast and without thinking and rearely re-read what I've written. ;-(

Long post. Mine original was entirely flippant so you've wasted your breath.

--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Help- accident last night. - Toad, of Toad Hall.
There was meant to be a smilie round all of that. It's looks a bit curt on the second reading!
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Help- accident last night. - 3500S
I lost a car as a write-off. The car gets towed to a compound where it is assessed by someone to work out the value of the car by means of a settlement.

When this happened to me, you can usually find out the name of the pound from the insurance company, make a trip over and ask one of the staff to ask that you want to retrieve some personal items.

My recommendations is do this immediately after the assessment and prior to it being broken up and normally crushed.

Ahem, your time is obviously limited. I retrieved the stereo and replaced with the factory fitted one as it was £300 worth.

As for the council, third party insurance should cover that.
Help- accident last night. - J Bonington Jagworth
"I lost a car as a write-off. The car gets towed to a compound.."

Or possibly to a garage, as happened to me a few years ago, where local oiks help themselves to the good bits (including some useful evidence for the defence), so Mr Chapman's request to remove his own is not so unreasonable...

I suspect that the response here, Ben, is not intended to be unfriendly - it's just recognition that you could be in a tight spot if the authorities ask awkward questions, which unfortunately they are prone to. Better forewarned...
Help- accident last night. - Flat in Fifth
Tee hee, nice try Toad but you were on the hook and in the net. Be a good boy, stop wriggling and I'll put you back carefully.

Now what would you prefer, a long post cast carefully into the pond ignoring your implied smilie or a word from the Moderator General.
Help- accident last night. - Keith S
"Max Power" sounds about right.
Help- accident last night. - Fullchat
Me thinks we are being had again!!!!!! "Ben Chapman - sideways to victory"
Help- accident last night. - Flat in Fifth
Actually FC I have a signed copy of the original Sideways to Victory, from none other than Albert* himself.

*for the younger members who have no idea who Albert was :-
Roger Albert Clark

ahhh memories
Help- accident last night. - Blue {P}
No, I don't think we're been had, he e-mailed me about the bodyshop, he certainly is who he says he is.

Blue
Help- accident last night. - Dynamic Dave
he e-mailed me
he certainly is who he says he is.


So if I were to email you after creating an email account under the name "Lord Lucan" would you believe it was really him?
Help- accident last night. - Mark (RLBS)
Leave it please.

It seems valid to me, and, even if it is not, the query has prompted an interesting and valid set of questions and answers.

Mark.
Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
Sorry was in bad mood after long day at work.

Dont have any idea who you think i am impersonating though.

Regarding left foot braking, i was mainly talking about driving automatics, i drive an 850 t5 auto form time to time.

on the Jetta with the brakes adjusted how i had them, it was possible to use a little left foot on the brake on exit to reduce understeer. Lifting off in my car near the limit wasnt fun. The car usually handled fairly neutraly, with understeer creeping in on the limit. I still have no idea what caused the massive understeer i got when i turned into the fateful corner.

Does no one here use a heel and toe technique to change gear, or trail brake into corners? I thought using your left foot on the brake was the best way to overlap braking and throttle whilst cornering. My driving isnt good enough to use left foot braking much when driving a manual. Down changes without the clutch in the Jetta were b***** difficult.

Ben
Help- accident last night. - TrevorP
Why would you want to be braking whilst cornering?

(let alone doing it with left foot)

How about the nice, easy, safe, smooth (and fast) option of

BRAKE, then change down BUT on the straight bits?

"a little left foot on the brake on exit to reduce understeer"

Pardon?

Yes, I teach Heel/toe - but only to advanced drivers.
And it is rarely used on the road.
Why would it be?

Only if
1) you are determined to leave your braking/gearchanging to be as late as possible
(and why would that be?) or

2) you "get caught out"
(poor observation and planning).

I would suggest that you get a demo from a Class 1 -
(retired will do)

Checkout whether any of your "advanced techniques" are in Roadcraft.
And if not - ask yourself why not.


Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
I usually easy off the brakes as i turn in, so i have a bit of brake on most of the time im turning in to the corner. I just do this to reduce the chance of understeer.

How about the nice, easy, safe, smooth (and fast) option of

BRAKE, then change down BUT on the straight bits?


I agree the mothod you propose is probably best for the road, but it is certianly not the fastest.

"a little left foot on the brake on exit to reduce understeer"

Yes probably silly, and yes better to use the handbrake, but it does have some effect. if you give the car a little more gas to account for the retarding forces on the front wheel, using the brake just acts in the same way as using a bit of hand brake.

I will deffinately buy a copy of roadcraft.

My uncle is an ex police driver, and i often ride in the car with him. I think he trained as a class 1 driver, and deffineately got class two. Many accidents are caused by bad police driving though.

You mention you teach- are you an advanced driving instructor? Thanks for the repsonse, i always want to learn.
Help- accident last night. - NWS
Face it, you're not up to these fancy techniques and you're just a b****y menace, a danger to yourself and other road users. The best thing about this saga is that A) you're off the road and B) you're at least 150 miles away from where I live.
I hope your local plod see a copy of this thread and start talking to you about a charge of dangerous driving.
Help- accident last night. - HF
Still being somewhat 'forthright', then, NWS? ;)
HF
Help- accident last night. - NWS
Well, (and obviously I don't know your circumstances)would you let him take your daughter out for "a spin" or want him near a school at letting out time?
Help- accident last night. - HF
Well, (and obviously I don't know your circumstances)would you let him
take your daughter out for "a spin" or want him near
a school at letting out time?


I didn't say that, NWS, and I'm sorry if my comment upset you. It *did* come with a ;) though.
HF
Help- accident last night. - NWS
Sorry HF I must have sounded a bit sharp, not offended at all, I guess it was just my exasperation at this guy coming through. The really worrying aspect to this story is his ceaseless defending of trying to master crazy race track techniques on public roads. Not one person has suggested he was in any sense behaving responsibly yet still he comes back with more questions about how to get into and out of corners at the highest possible speed.
Help- accident last night. - HF
Hi NWS,

It's ok, no apology needed.

I'm not the best person to comment on a thread like this, and probably should have kept out of it in the first place - I've never tried advanced driving, and I'm sure I never will.

My attitude before was 'give the boy a chance if he's trying to learn' - which I honestly thought he was. Seems everyone here thinks differently, and I bow to everyone's superior knowledge!

I honestly did think at first that he was asking those questions in order to learn (like I do sometimes) - but the whole BR disagrees with me!!

So I will now, I hope, gracefully bat out of this thread, thus maintaining a little BR space that I might otherwise have used.

Last comment here for now - people, please make sure you read 'announcements' tonight.
HF
Help- accident last night. - neil
Hmm!
Help- accident last night. - TrevorP
"Many accidents are caused by bad police driving though"

Pardon?

As opposed to to those people trying half-a***d rallying techniques on the road?

(yes - I do know some of what you are trying to do -
I co-drive for a pal in a Group N Escort Cossie)

but such driving has no place on a public road.

I suggest you forget all this fancy nonsense and start again -

on this path - IAM, then RoADA, then HPC.
Help- accident last night. - MikeC
Sorry am I missing something here??? you say you "still have no idea what caused the massive understeer i got when i turned into the fateful corner" yet in the preceeding sentance you talk about left foot braking whilst exiting corners, lift off over steer etc.

My guess as to why you crashed would be that you were going too fast for the road conditions, your car, and your driving ability.

Surely braking on a corner would increase the chance of understeer as you are more likely to lock the fronts thus causing your car (presumably without ABS) to carry straight on in the direction it was going.

Try this approach in future: 1) engage brain, 2) position car for the bend 3) reduce speed (using the brakes with your right foot) 4) change down if necessary (using left foot on the clutch) 5) gently use accelerator (with right foot) to maintain a steady speed throughout the corner 6) accelerate when on the straight.

I agree with Trevor P's comments but don't think that just because you've been on a demo drive with a professional that you 'know it all', as this will just lead you to further accidents through over confidence.

MC.

'Better to be slightly late in this world than early in the next'


Help- accident last night. - Flat in Fifth
Well may I ever so humbly thank all for supporting my original view about these techniques and Ben for not being able to add anything to justify this dopey behaviour.

And as for anyone braking OUT of a corner and claiming its quicker, but not by much, just well.......... I give up.

Is it something about Gateshead people?
Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
Admittedly braking on exit is rather silly.

It may come as a suprise to many people on this board, and i doubt many will believe me, but i am a careful driver. I DO NOT drive on the limit on public roads. I am just interested by racing driving techniques. That does not mean i practice them on the road. I occasionaly use heal and toe gearchanges (well did). This was often because the syncro was fairly knackered on the gearbox in the Jetta. I do sometimes practice trail braking at moderate speeds, just to get a feel of it. I only ever drive quickly whilst karting or the very rare occasion i get on a track. Most of my questions were theoretical.

When i crashed, i wasnt trying anything silly at all. I just felt that better knowledge of advanced car control could of aided me when trying to recover control of the car. I realise full well that i drove beyond the limitations imposed by the car i was driving, the conditions, and ultimately my own lack of ability. But i still feel the knowledge i seek would make me a safer driver. You never know when you might drive over a patch of oil.

The only time i have ever tried any of these techniques has been in deserted car park, or on private land.

Incidentally, i do occasionaly drive my 9 year old sister to school, and drive her and her friends about. There parents have all travelled with me and are quite happy for me to drive their offsrping.

Thanks for the advice trevor p, ill try and join my local IAM if i get another car.

NWS- thanks for your posts, they did focus the mind. But if you were to drive round a corner, skid (through no fault of your own, within the speed limit i might add), hit a lamp post, and emerge from the car lucky not to have been seriously hurt; what would you think of a person who wished you were prosecuted for dangerous driving? I was told by the officer in charge (incidentally a class 1 driver) that both witnesses commented that they did not think it my fault, and couldnt understand how i lost control. Im just a bit surpised by the opinion people have taken of me and my driving from the few comments i have written here.

Ben
Help- accident last night. - TrevorP
Well, young Ben,

you still have not grasped the basics.

"skid (through no fault of your own)"

Pardon?

Who's fault was it then?

The lampost's?

"I am just interested by racing driving techniques" -
- these are for TRACK - not road.

"I occasionaly use heal and toe gearchanges (well did). This was often because the syncro was fairly knackered on the gearbox in the Jetta"

NOT necessary - even with knacked synchro.

You are mixing up requirements.

Heel & toe is ONLY used if you wish to brake and change together at the last possible instant. Why would anybody want to do that on the road?

Worn synchro requires rev matching in order to change gear smoothly.

That means adjusting revs AFTER finishing braking.

OK?

Help- accident last night. - borasport20
Ben, matey...

don't get to hung up on the negative stuff. you've told your story, and people have interpreted that in the light of their own experience and the way you've expressed yourself, and like your accident, it's history

You can be one of the two sorts of driver in this world..

type a, turn engine on and brain off, reverse procedure at end of journey

type b, asking what am i doing and why, why did this happen, what can i do about in, can i do to avoid it next time

you're asking the questions, and that's good. When it happens to somebody and they think 'well it happened and there was nothing i can do about it', then thats a problem for all of us, and you are not in that category.



Help- accident last night. - Dwight Van Driver
Well baited Toad....we've got Fif...

Fishing for frogs without a licence during the close season.
S1 Ways and Means Act.

Quick, into the Rover to Bow Street for an Extradition Order

DVD
Help- accident last night. - Flat in Fifth
Well baited Toad....we've got Fif...
Fishing for frogs without a licence during the close season.
S1 Ways and Means Act.
Quick, into the Rover to Bow Street for an Extradition Order
DVD


OK, Hands up it's a fair cop, yer got me bang to rights guv'nor.
Help- accident last night. - Toad, of Toad Hall.
>> Quick, into the Rover to Bow Street for an Extradition
Order
OK, Hands up it's a fair cop, yer got me bang
to rights guv'nor.


All we need now is FiF's signature on the statement written in pencil....
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Help- accident last night. - Flat in Fifth
All we need now is FiF's signature on the statement written
in pencil....



___X____ <<< FiF his mark!

just leave the extradition till after the Swedish though Toad.

Been snowing solid for 4 days, no question about which tyres to use.
Help- accident last night. - J Bonington Jagworth
"..rearely re-read what I've written"

So it would appear.. :-)
Help- accident last night. - Peter D
Well what a tread. 4.5 years, as if the .5 makes any difference and you know it all so why are you asking any questions. A lot of insurance companies insist the owner ( V5 ) is the first name insurer and you should have been a secondary driver. I suspect your brake balance is/was incorrect did you ever have it tested. ? When the loss adjusted inspects your car you may fine all those mods deem it to be void. If I were you I would weld a metal plate between the clutch and brake pedal becuase you are dangerous 'Ben Chapman On the Limit' very dangerous. !!!!!
Help- accident last night. - Toad, of Toad Hall.
Guys I think you should lay off this bloke.

He's made a terrible mistake but nobody was hurt and we may not all have crashed (although some on this thread have) but we've probably had a few lucky escapes.

As my mohter used to say if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all...
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Help- accident last night. - Mark (RLBS)
>>Guys I think you should lay off this bloke.

For once I am in complete agreement with Toad.

All those amongst you who are completely wihout sin may continue, the rest of you give the guy a break.

Mark.

p.s. actually I agree with Toad's Mother as well. Have you got that windsurfing stuff out of her place yet, Toad ?

Help- accident last night. - No Do$h
Mark and Toad in agreement? I have to jump on THIS bandwagon.

I've been watching this thread develop with interest, particularly where Ben has had to defend his desire to improve his driving, albeit in a manner that some find less than appropriate.

Various bods have jumped to conclusions, forgetting that this is a typed forum and not a conversation. How many times do you read your post and think "ooops, should have typed that differently". Likewise, in conversation you can interrupt mid-response to assert that you have been misunderstood.

In the Backroom it is common for a "poster" to not see the development of their thread for 24 hours. During that time the tone can change dramatically as subsequent posts arrive, often making assumptions on the original question. It's a 21st century chinese whispers.

I know I'm guilty of this and often wish I could sneak back in and remove some of my comments. A good example is where Mark feels he has to remove a post or two; have you noticed how the thread tends to die as the continuity is lost? Yet the original question may have "evolved" at the hands of respondents to the point where nobody would recognise the later posts as having any connection to the original thread.

Ah, it's a Friday afternoon. Rant over.......

Ben, for what it's worth, my original thoughts were along the lines of "boy-racer, got what he deserved". Your later responses have shown a restraint and maturity that should shame many older forum members. I'm glad I held back from posting some of my earlier thoughts. Safe driving to you, mate.

No Dosh.
Help- accident last night. - HF
Agree 100% No Dosh.
HF
Help- accident last night. - Martin Devon
I just regurgitated what the officer said to me. Gritter truck
drove down the opposite side of the dual carriage way just
after I hit the lamp post. Surely the salt would only
lower the temperature at which the water freezes once it had
dissolved? I still don?t really know what happened. The road
bends around in an s shape; went round the first part
ok, then turned into the second part and no grip.
Can anyone advise on any decent driving books? I have one
titled professional race driving secrets, but it doesn?t mention anything like
left-foot breaking etc that HJ mentions on this site.

BRAKING would be better. Breaking you have done.

Regards.
Help- accident last night. - Nick R
If you are a named driver on your Dad's insurance policy then you shouldn't have a problem, although you may well have a higher excess than your Dad. He may have a policy where his no-claims bonus is protected as long as he doesn't make more than e.g. 3 claims in 5 years (I was able to protect my NCB when my son totalled my car). However if you make a claim, the car then belongs to the insurance company and they will not allow you to remove any bits to sell, as they will want to do that to offset they money they pay you.
Hope you told them about the mods!
Nick

Help- accident last night. - Peter D
Yeh your right. Learn and Move on Good Luck Regards Peter
Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
I'm just glad people feel free to post what they think. If I don?t agree with it its up to me. I have learnt from what has been written.

Trevor P-I think I understand the approach to driving you advise, and I hope I will understand it further when I join the IAM group locally. But haven?t you ever slowed down into a round about for example and have someone pull out in front of you? Under these situations in the past I have used heel and toe technique to change gear whilst braking so I am in the right gear to accelerate out of the way should I need too.
When I said through no fault of my own, I wished NWS to question how he knew it was my fault. Maybe I went into the corner extremely recklessly; maybe I was driving at a "normal" sensible speed and got caught out from the road surface? I think I went a bit too fast, but I felt a few here just jumped to this conclusions. I imagine the ?Max Power? modifications had something to do with this.

My dad's name was on the V5. The policy was in his name with me as a named driver. The car was with him about 6 months of the year. He used to drive my kid sister to school in it etc. I took the car to Newcastle when he had serious surgery on his hand and couldn?t drive. The insurance company were informed of this arrangement. When I spoke to another broker, they informed me the price would be dependant upon whether my dad had access to another vehicle. He is named on my mum's insurance. Most insurance companies knowing this will then rate both drivers independently, and add the two up, and offer a bit of discount if they feel like it. RSA appear to have rated it as though it was his sole car and I was an occasional driver. (Insurance with RSA via AA). I informed them repeatedly he had access to another vehicle but they were happy with the arrangement.

Finally signed the wreck over today. The V5 got lost in the post so I left the car at the recovery depot. I went to the breaker to whom I was selling the car today, to sign it over so he could go and collect it form the recovery place. I arrived and saw my car parked outside! Apparently when I had mentioned to the recovery people where it was going to end up, they rang ahead and the guy from the breakers came and picked it up, even though he didn?t have the V5. I have recovered some bits; he is taking the head off for me so I accepted his offer of £20 for the car. Oddly enough the taxi driver that took me there had witnessed the accident, and commented how he nearly lost it when driving on the stretch I had crashed on 10 minutes earlier!

Ben
Help- accident last night. - TrevorP
"Trevor P - I think I understand the approach to driving you advise, and I hope I will understand it further"

good lad -

"But haven’t you ever slowed down into a round about for example and have someone pull out in front of you?"

Well, when I was learning yes - "cost" me lots of sticky buns.
(don't worry Ben, you will not know what that means, but there are 1 or 2 here that will)

You see boys -

I was not "putting him down" - I was trying for constructive criticism.
Help- accident last night. - Fullchat
Only sticky buns. Cost me cream buns!!!!!!!!
Help- accident last night. - HF
Ben,

Keep learning, keep coming here and getting very valuable advice from people who know so much more than you or I do.

Keep safe, and please listen to what people are saying here, most really do have your safety and wellbeing at heart, even if it doesn't always seem that way.

Take care, you've learned a lesson the hard way, just make sure you don't put yourself through the same again.
HF
Help- accident last night. - J Bonington Jagworth
"I have learnt from what has been written.."

And the prejudices of some of the authors, I imagine! I expect your karting experience has familiarised you with left-foot braking, but it feels odd to most people, who therefore assume it to be dangerous. Good luck and take it easy...
Help- accident last night. - NWS
"It feels odd" Could this possibly be because it is odd? Fine for the karting track, hard to justify on public roads as a means of taking a corner max speed.
Help- accident last night. - J Bonington Jagworth
"Fine for the karting track.."

Well, obligatory really, as some classes of kart just have a brake and an accelerator, one under each foot! Some bikes have left-foot brakes, too, but the point I was aiming at was that familiarity with the technique makes it more viable in a car, as you are more likely to have the necessary touch (not just the hefty shove required for the clutch) and the foot-brain linkage that instinctively knows which pedal you're pressing. I don't left-foot brake much, but I do cover the brake with my left foot when travelling down single-track lanes, as it reduces the reaction time just enough to make a difference in an emergency.
Help- accident last night. - NWS
Or maybe you could just dispense with the clever stuff and drop your speed by a couple of mph on those single track lanes? Not quite the thrill of knowing you've covered the miles in the minimum possible time for what you consider a safe speed, but probably a lot safer for you and the nervous rider of that horse you'll encounter next time you're out ;-) I'm no saint, I break the speed limit and sometimes I have come out of a situation that was more serious than I thought it would be going into it and felt a sense of relief, but I'm concerned by this thought process which suggests that you can maintain a responsible margin of safety on the roads by replacing an anticipatory style of driving with advanced track techniques.
Help- accident last night. - J Bonington Jagworth
It's not me I'm covering the brake for - it's to try and buy a few feet of road space when someone comes careering towards me faster than he can stop! I had a car written off this way - I was stationary and busy engaging reverse at the point of impact - so I'm acutely aware of the hazards (which I admit are easy to underestimate, especially when there's a bit of loose mud or gravel on the road). I ride horses occasionally, too...
Help- accident last night. - HF
Isn't it time to give the poor lad a break? He's apologised, he's expressed his willingness to learn - he's young and has made a mistake. Please, people, let him get on with it now- if he were to come back again with a similar story, then surely that's when to rip him to pieces, not now?
HF (who normally steers completely clear of anything remotely controversial, but you can blame M and V for my input here)
Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
I will certianly remember the experience, im going to have to buy a new lamp post- £863. I hope for this amount i get my name on it!

Anyone interested in a kent cams vernier pulley for a mk.2 16v, mocal oil cooler, a set of brand new VAG HT leads, or a nearly new idle stabilisation valve? Let me know via e-mail if you are.
Help- accident last night. - Tim Allcott
Ben, I might be interested in Idle stabilisation valve (do you know if it will work on an 8v?) I can't email you direct: your profile's empty!
Hopefully you can email me off forum tho.
Help- accident last night. - Soupytwist
Ben
Might be interested in the HT leads if they'll fit an 8v. No email in your profile though.
Matthew Kelly
No, not that one.
Help- accident last night. - Ben {P}
The HT leads are 16v specific.

I will try and add an e-mail address to my profile.

Ben
Help- accident last night. - Micky
Ben, if you want to drive "on the edge" then go racing. Oval track racing can be cheap (or expensive) but beware ........ you might crash!
Help- accident last night. - mal
Congratulations Ben on generating over 100 responses. quite an achievement in this forum.

There should be brownie points for popular topics :-).

(Midnight!thats it i'm off to bed now).



Help- accident last night. - Dynamic Dave
(Midnight!thats it i'm off to bed now).


Lightwieght ;o)
 

Value my car