I've just picked myself up off the floor following a laughing fit.
I'm sorry but how is this going to work? You can still contest a fixed penalty you know and proving genuine careless driving from simple mistakes will still prove impossible in court.
Especially as we've got no sodding police anyway.
Were you specifically commenting on my thoughts? I actually disagree with the fixed penalty notices and level of points for minor offenses.
Why do I get the impression that you would like people to get away with poor driving, even IF there were more traffic police (as I previously said). You always seem to come across as someone who likes to "thumb their nose" at anyone (especially in positions of authority or older than you) who tries to do something/put forward ideas that tries to keep people safe - how about some positive suggestions for once, rather than just ridiculing everyone else?
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Were you specifically commenting on my thoughts?
No precious, I actually didn't read what you wrote. Get over yourself.
Why do I get the impression that you would like people to get away with poor driving
Poor driving is a fact of life. We've all ended up in the wrong lane or gone the wrong way. Dangerous driving is another matter. Driving 5 inches behind the car in front should probably result in the Audi driver receiving points, but the 'problem' of the middle lane mimsers could be solved by adopting an American attitude to undertaking.
Sitting in the middle lane at 60mph isn't dangerous. It may be annoying, unneccessary and evidence the vehicle in front is probably a Honda but it's not dangerous.
Dishing out fines for being 'not that good at driving' is a bit silly.
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. . . Dangerous driving is another matter. Driving 5 inches behind the car in front should probably result in the Audi driver receiving points
Supposing the Audi driver is the car in front, and it is the Jaguar driver that is the car behind, driving 5 inches from the Audi's bumper?
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Supposing the Audi driver is the car in front, and it is the Jaguar driver that is the car behind, driving 5 inches from the Audi's bumper?
I've learned that people move out of the way faster if you back off them, because I'm like that.
When I see the four rings bearing down in my rear view mirror is when I decide to sit at 69mph and not pull in as quickly as I originally planned, just to annoy him.
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Are we now going to see drivers swerving into lane 1 when they spot a police car behind?
I can't get worked up about middle-lane hoggers. Hopefully the law will only be applied in extreme cases - e.g. when the driver has no good reason to be in lane 2 - such as when a driver is sitting in lane 2 at under 60 mph, when he/she is not following in a line of traffic AND lane 1 is clear.
It would be interesting to see what happens if the police try to book someone for middle-lane hogging when they're doing 70 mph, since nobody else should be going faster, and so by definition. And people seem to forget - if someone's holding you up in lane 2 - there's always lane 3.
I'm definitely in favour of cracking down on the real menace on motorways - tailgaters, though. Another pet hate is drivers who follow you down the slip road and decide to overtake just as you're about to join the motorway yourself.
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"Another pet hate is drivers who follow you down the slip road and decide to overtake just as you're about to join the motorway yourself."
Indeed - Someone did this to my son(complete with L plates!) last week whilst joining the A1. It's not as if he was joining slowly - he was already up to speed on the slip road and about to join the traffic.
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I see this as another government fudge.
Dont watch what they do, watchout for what they dont do.
It wont spend the money we give for the roads on the roads. It wastes it on general governmant spending. ( or gives it to support their corrupt pals in the badly managed banks)
There is currently plenty of rules and laws covering proper and safe driving, we dont need any more laws for this.
There is a great lack of proper enforment but the Police budgets have been cut so there is less traffic police than there was, so how is this new law going to make any damm difference.
Our parliament is completely useless. They gives us laws we dont want but will not give us the laws we do want and need. Complete and useless waste of time, space and money.
These are the clowns that want to spend BILLIONS of our money on a high speed rail link nobody wants, or that we can actually afford.
and these monkeys want another pay rise? and more expenses?
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I don't see any 'new 'law at all.
All that seems to have happened is, certain offences such as 'driving without care & consideration etc.'...may become easier to enforce.
There is nothng to prevent Police reporting a so-called 'middle lane hogger' for these offences now....however, because they required Court time, the system has become unwieldy for such relatively minor offences.
When I started driving, even speeding offences were dealt with in Court....[nothing more intimidating than two huge Met Police officers crammed into a Sunbeam Tiger...glued to one's tail?
Now, people complain bitterly, and endlessly seek excuses, because speeding can be enforced electronically....and to them , this is somehow unfair.
I hear calls for 'motorway training' for learner drivers?
WTF?
Already, most learners will get the opportunity to use a dual carriageway, far more difficult to drive on than a Motorway....and far more dangerous.
I think one of the most heinous driver faults seen on both m/ways and D/carriageways, is incorrect indication.
This is because too many drivers, of all categories, pay lip service to the process of communicating to others.
Or, they cannot plan an intended overtake, or lane change..instead sitting hovering in their mirrors, almost frightened of telling others what they intend to do...so ending up indicating and pulling out at the very same time.
Causing much grief and annoyance to the vehicle they pulled out in front of......who..equally, probably failed to anticipate what vehicles in front, but to the left, might want to do......
But, hey ho..the indicator WAS used, so that must make it all right....
Very much the sort of behaviour seen in a learner driver of but a few hours training?
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I'm with sofa spud. In most circumstances hoggers are a minor iriitation, they can be managed.
They are generally noticeable when it is very quiet, such as the one I encountered on the M60 on Sunday. He joined in front of me and simply went straight into the middle lane and stayed there. He was going slightly faster so left me, had he gone slower I would have overtaken.
At Christmas on the M6/M74, where it is very quiet, I followed a hogger for at least 20 miles. We were doing similar speeds so no issue for either of us. He wasn't impeding me or being dangerous.
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I work on the principle, rightly or wrongly, that if I have moved out of Lane 1 to overtake, I go back into it if I can get into it and stay there for 10 seconds. If I can't I stay in Lane 2 and go back into it when I can spend 10 seconds there.
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I work on the principle, rightly or wrongly, that if I have moved out of Lane 1 to overtake, I go back into it if I can get into it and stay there for 10 seconds. If I can't I stay in Lane 2 and go back into it when I can spend 10 seconds there.
Well, that seems a sensible and correct approach, and one which I adhere to.
@daveyjp.
Your two examples are of drivng not in accordance with the Highway Code and are therefore in the wrong. You might say they're not harming anyone, but it is people like this who should be subject to the prosecution or penalty
Would you also argue that a driver who is over the limit is also doing no harm by driving along a quiet motorway? Of course not.
Both against the law, both should be prosecuted.
Drive in Lane 1 unless overtaking, or unless Lane 1 is congested with slow moving traffic. In which case return to Lane 1 when appropriate, Simple.
Edited by 72 dudes on 06/06/2013 at 12:27
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It's obvious some people have never attempted the A14 on a weekday morning. You just have a huge wall of lorries and your chances of being able to pull in to the inside lane within 10 miles of pulling out are remote.
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I agree Jamie,
The A14 (and many others I'm sure) at rush hour means that pulling into the inside lane is not an option. The A14 is mainly two lanes, so no centre lane anyway.
I'm talking about 3+ lane motorways when Lane 1 is relatively empty and yet the Lane 2 hogger blithely travels in Lane 2, oblivious to the compacting he/she is causing in Lane 3, as traffic which could be using Lane 2, if only the hogger would pull over, all has to cram into Lane 3.
There's a lot of this on the 4 lane stretch of A1M from Peterborough to Alconbury, where you often get hoggers in Lane 3 when both 1 and 2 are clear, forcing more cars into Lane 4.
On this same stretch you see more undertaking out of sheer frustration than anywhere else I've been, and this cannot be good for safety.
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The main problem on the A14 (and other out of date, two lane haulage routes) is if you don't sit in the outside lane and just blast along at 85mph, you then end up between a wall of lorries not being able to see where you're going.
If you back off the truck in front to leave the 2 second gap, the truck behind you will then overtake you to fill that gap in, leaving you boxed by a lorry in front, lorry behind and a lorry beside.
The 27 seconds saved is of course vital to Britains haulage industry.
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The A14 in the rush hour is my journey just 2 days each week.
Indeed, jamie747, you can end up in a potentially very dagerous HGV sandwich........... a couple of weeks ago it took an HGV three miles to pass another one. Perhaps there should be a law against this type of driving. This means A14 traffic often travels at less than 60 mph. BTW, aren't HGV's limited to 40 mph on A roads? Morrisons HGVs stick rigidly to this. Some twazzock earlier this week, in an HGV, was driving at over 60 mph on an A road.
I feel middle lane hogger rule should apply to people who drive there continuously, even when the inside lane is virtually empty. I must admit to very occasionally undertaking, or driving in the inside lane, level with middle lane hogger, then back off to see if daydreamer in middle lane has notice. It seems crazy to have to go from inside lane, to outside lane, then revert to inside lane to get past some inconsiderate, stupid, twazzock. I'm with jamie on undertaking, if done with care.
Roundabouts, as said previously, are sometimes badly marked and signs can be misleading.
Edited by Trilogy on 06/06/2013 at 21:29
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"BTW, aren't HGV's limited to 40 mph on A roads?"
No.
"The maximum speed limit for heavy goods vehicles (HGVs) over 7.5 tonnes on single carriageway roads is prescribed in Schedule 6 of the Road Traffic Act 1984. The current speed limit on single carriageways for HGVs over 7.5 tonnes is 40 miles per hour..."
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"BTW, aren't HGV's limited to 40 mph on A roads?"
No.
"The maximum speed limit for heavy goods vehicles (HGVs) over 7.5 tonnes on single carriageway roads is prescribed in Schedule 6 of the Road Traffic Act 1984. The current speed limit on single carriageways for HGVs over 7.5 tonnes is 40 miles per hour..."
You're disagreeIng then post a statement which agrees. LOL.
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"BTW, aren't HGV's limited to 40 mph on A roads?"
No.
"The maximum speed limit for heavy goods vehicles (HGVs) over 7.5 tonnes on single carriageway roads is prescribed in Schedule 6 of the Road Traffic Act 1984. The current speed limit on single carriageways for HGVs over 7.5 tonnes is 40 miles per hour..."
You're disagreeIng then post a statement which agrees. LOL.
No he is saying its 40mph on single carriageway roads some A roads are dual carriageway in which case the limit is higher.
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You're disagreeIng then post a statement which agrees. LOL.
Goods vehicles over 7.5 tonnes MAW are limited to 40mph on single carriageway roads, 50mph on dual carriageways and 60mph on motorways, in all cases unless lower limits apply - as everyone who knows anything of the Highway Code already knows.
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"You're disagreeIng then post a statement which agrees. LOL."
I thought my use of italics was a bit of a give-away...
Oh well.
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The A14 in the rush hour is my journey just 2 days each week.
Indeed, jamie747, you can end up in a potentially very dagerous HGV sandwich........... a couple of weeks ago it took an HGV three miles to pass another one. Perhaps there should be a law against this type of driving. This means A14 traffic often travels at less than 60 mph. BTW, aren't HGV's limited to 40 mph on A roads? Morrisons HGVs stick rigidly to this. Some twazzock earlier this week, in an HGV, was driving at over 60 mph on an A road.
I feel middle lane hogger rule should apply to people who drive there continuously, even when the inside lane is virtually empty. I must admit to very occasionally undertaking, or driving in the inside lane, level with middle lane hogger, then back off to see if daydreamer in middle lane has notice. It seems crazy to have to go from inside lane, to outside lane, then revert to inside lane to get past some inconsiderate, stupid, twazzock. I'm with jamie on undertaking, if done with care.
Roundabouts, as said previously, are sometimes badly marked and signs can be misleading.
I agree with you, as I also have a good deal of experience using the A14 between Newmarket and Peterborough for both commuting and work/leisure-related trips - it is difficult on such dual carriageways to make progress past long lines of HGVs who rarely give smaller vehicles space to pull back into lane 1 (say for exiting at a slip off) or is worth doing so as you find it difficult to pull back out again when you've caught up to the next one. Similar to what others have said, I also try as far as possible to pull back into lane 1 when I can on such roads if I think I can either get back into lane 2 by the time I catch up the next slow vehicle or find that those ahead in lane 1 are going quite near (<5mph) to 70mph and have reasonable gaps - satying out in lane 2 if not is not "hogging" in my view.
IMO its the idiots who do so when there is little traffic in lane 1 and especially those who drive slowly (50-low 60s mph) in such lanes for NO GOOD REASON - it causes congestion (not using lane 1 and causing bunching behind) and in some circumstances (e.g. roads with blind dips) outright dangerous. On more than one occasion (including on the A14 and similar crowded dual carriageways) I've seen near accidents caused by such "hoggers", who also don't appear to know what to do with their vehicle's mirrors - you've all seen them - those unmoved by a set of flashing lights and even sirens right behind them, trundling along at 60mph.
Note that I do not condone those who think that you SHOULD be doing 85+ in the "fast" lane (although you may have to to keep up with others to avoid accidents etc).
The "lorry overtaking lorry" problem is a major one on such roads - one possible way of reducing its effects (when the overtaking lorry is doing so at 1-2 mph faster than the one in lane 1 or slows when overtaking uphill) is fro them to try (as far as possible) to overtake on downhill or generally flat stretches of road, but also on right-hand bends - the reason being that the overtaking lane 2 route is then the shorter route (a-la athletics tracks), and helps shorten the time for the manouvre - I do this quite often when near the speed limit (keeping an eye on what's coming up behind, also very important to "pick the right time" to overtake).
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HGVs being overtaken won't ease their throttle as it takes far too long to regain their speed afterwards, particularly uphill - the faster HGV can't overtake downhill as the one on the inside can keep up with him then. HGV limiters only affect the throttle, not the brakes, and downhill they can easily exceed 56mph, particularly when fully laden - and on UK motorways their legal limit is 60mph, not 56mph.
The problem is road-building on the cheap - IMO, all motorways should have been built with 3 lanes, at least, and used cuttings / embankments far more to minimise gradients with only climbs over 1000' like Shap and Beattock being the exceptions - we also have far too many 2-lane A-roads which should have been built as 3-lane motorways.
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Fair point about overtaking downhill. What do you think about the RH bend overtaking method though? It seems to work fine for me.
Regarding the motorways that are two lane ones - I never understood how that ever occured - the M11 near me (and the A14) is two lanes all the way from Bishop's Stortford through meeting the A14 at Cambridge (except for a short 3 lane [we don't count a long slip road as the forth] section for about a mile just north of that junction) all the way until the now A14 spur meets the A1 north of Alconbury.
The same goes for the local A1 which is three lanes up to the M25, changes to the A1(M) afterwards and reduces to 2 lanes up to Hatfield, then back to 3 again to Welwyn, down to 2 until you reach Stevenage (what idiot thought up that chestnut), then back to down to 2 again when passing the "metropolis" that is Hitchin-Letchworth-Baldock. I'd still love to know how all these Civil Servants in the DfT etc can call themselves experts in planning these roads given the complete lack of planning - I'm sure the stupid and selfish politicians have a lot to answer for as well, but really - a blind man could've done a better job!
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Middle lane hogging only occurs on non- congested roads - when it's congested everyone is trying to overtake but can't.
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Yes the hoggers were technically wrong, but its not for me as another motorist to 'police' the wrongdoings of others and its certainly not in my interest to become hot under the collar about shortcomings of others.
What can I actually do about it? The answer is nothing.
Far better to recognise they are clueless and manage the situation.
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