Self Employment - Chris M

Seeking opinions/advice from self-employed Backroomers.

Talking to a friend yesterday who has a 19yo son. He left college last summer and has yet to find a ‘proper’ job, although he does have three part time jobs. These jobs are cash in hand and some weeks he is busy and others he is not. Average pay is probably around £100 pw, so not enough to be taxed, but close to the NI limit. The conversation got around to whether he should register with HMRC as self employed and potentially pay NI if necessary. My friend and I have always been employed so have no first-hand experience to offer the son.

The lad has never signed on as unemployed, so the question arose as to whether his apparent disappearance from the tax/NI system will be picked up at some stage by HMRC, and therefore it would be better to get in first and register as self employed. I also think the discipline of keeping records of his income (and expenses as he has to travel to the workplaces) will be good practice for the future. And we all love self assessment don’t we!

Continued self employment isn’t the long term goal, but it could last a few years and with a fair wind, we hope he may have to start paying tax at some stage!

Any Backroomers have experience of starting out as self employed?

Self Employment - Duncan112

Slightly different set of circumstances with me as I am employed by my own limited company but:

Register as self employed to keep your contribution record up to date - I know that by retirement age he will have contributed more than the statutory minimum number of years IF he remains in full employment but if circumstances (or legislation) change he will have a but under his belt if he needs to fall out of the system/work abroad etc.

As regards travelling expenses if he spends more than 40% of his time at one location for more than 2 years (or thinks he is likely to do from the outset) then the travelling expenses for this location will become ineligible for tax relief.

I wish him well and hope his next query is about VAT registration (another potential minefield)

Self Employment - concrete

Hello Chris, bit of a teaser here. If he 'signs on' effectively on job seekers then his NI is paid and will count towards his ultimate contributory years(30 at present) and will qualify him for the state pension at 66. But obviously he can earn very little while doing this. If he is self employed he does not have to register as such, there is no register. However he needs to declare his earnings, however small to HMRC and if they are below the threshold he will neither pay tax nor NI. He could check it out to see what the basic NI contribution is and may elect to pay it voluntarily monthly by direct debit if he can afford it. But the years he does not pay NI, even though self employed and below the threshold, do not count toward the neccessary 30 for state pension. So far so clear!! I hope.

All he needs to do is keep a simple twin entry book of income and expenditure on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. He can copy this onto the self assessment form and this is not too difficult. He will need some skill with accounts and numbers if he is to be self employed anyway and it is fairly easy. At 19 it must be worth a punt for a year or two to see if he makes a go of being self employed. I wish him luck and hope he gets to a position where he pays lots of tax, because that means he made lots of money too. Don't let the 'system' scare him or put him off. It is quite simple once you get into it and contrary to rumour most organisations like HMRC and NI(Works and Pensions) will offer free, good advice, especially online. Best of luck to him. Cheers Concrete

Self Employment - Chris M

Thanks Concrete & Duncan.

I've had a look at the HMRC website and there appears to be a lot of free help available for those starting out. The weekly Class 2 contribution for this year is £2.70 with a lower limit of £5,725 per year, so with luck, he could be paying it. I take your point about not building up his 30 years.

The lad doesn't want to sign on unemployed and fortunately his dad is happy to keep him as long as he is making some effort to earn his own money. The self employed idea, we thought, makes it a little more formal and may give the lad more of a sense of purpose.

Self Employment - Auristocrat

Current plans for the new state pension include a rise in the required number of years of NI contributions from 30 to 35. Pension age is planned to rise to 66 from 2020, with further rises to at least 68.

Self Employment - concrete

Hello Chris, this lad is quite fortunate to have a Dad and a friend who are showing some faith in him. If he responds like I think a sensible lad will then he will learn a lot from the experience. Your investigation into the details have revealed that it does not take much to contibute and be able to hold your head up and take some pride in achieving something. Once he gets the work 'ethic' or habit he could make a success of being self employed or a good employee for someone else. A valuable life skill. All power to him. Cheers Concrete.