My daughter passed her driving test this morning. My wife is keen for her to use 'P' plates for some time.
Any comments backroomers on the pros and cons?
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I am in favour of their use.
The test is proof of technical competence and that you can stay accident-free for half an hour.
P plates alert me to the fact that the driver may lack experience so I give them that little extra leeway.
The question then become "how long to wear them". With no guidelines I suggest until the new driver feels confident, but a better system might be where a qualified instructor has to "sign them off".
Brian
Still learning (I hope)
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Surely her friends would laugh?? Mine would have...
Seriously though, i don't think that advertising the fact that you are inexperienced makes people any more accomodating. I've recently passed my motorbike test, and found that when i was pootling around on my 125 with L plates, people just saw it as a license to cut you up, overtake when they shouldn't, etc etc. When I passed, riding the same crappy old bike without plates, i found that other drivers were much less aggressive/impatient. Not quite the same as driving a car with P plates, but similar. And she'll probably get out and take them off when she gets to the end of the road anyway!
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I'm concerned that there are times when a teenage girl out on her own is not wise to advertise they are an inexperienced driver, or am I being an overprotective father?
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>>or am I being an overprotective father?
No, I should think you are exactly correct.
What is the purpose of the P plates ? - I guess it is to try and obtain extra sympathy or tolerance from other drivers, and perhaps give them the opportunity to keep their difference. IMO you [your daughter] will get neither.
What you will get is the agression and total lack of tolerance as everybody reacts with the " oh its a "£$^&%$ learner" attitude.
Better for your daughter to be cautious and not advertise.
I presume that you have done all the fatherly stuff about not stopping unless its a police car, accidents/breakdowns late at night and all that sort of stuff ?
And equipped her with a mobile phone.
I would not recommend the P plates, since I reckon its pretty much all down-side in the real world, albeit an excellent idea in theory.
M.
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There are pros and cons to the P plate system. Some drivers will give extra leeway and some will make more of an effort to cause her trouble. I think the best way is to ask her if she would have them on her car. For all you know, if you stick them on for her, as soon as she gets in the car, she may take them off anyway!
Make sure she has a mobile phone to call for help if she does get into trouble.
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There are prosa and cons to the mobile phone too. She'll have to keep it out of sight or her nice new car will be broken into.
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well, being a girl from Belfast, we have always had the 'R' plates to show a 'restricted' driver is loose on the roads! As this has always been the way it worked in Northern Ireland, people always saw it as a sign of success..although I recall my older brother passing his (and he is a real car enthusiast) and cutting the plate down as far as possible! Maybe it was a man thing. Anyway, I think it is a good idea as it warns other drivers to be a bit more patient (not that they will be) as you have only just passed your test...afterall, that is when the real learning to drive happens...
But the green 'P' is not as nice as the orange 'R' we have ;O)
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>>as it warns other drivers to be a bit more patient (not that they will be)
Exactly my point - they won't be.
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Over the years I've had quite a few pupils (nearly all female) using P plates after passing their tests. None ever reported any aggression because of them, and a few told me that following drivers appeared to be fairly tolerant when they were being a bit slow emerging from junctions, and sympathetic if they stalled.
It's all a matter of the level of confidence of a new driver. The more nervous ones feel they have a little bit of protection during those first terrifying weeks behind the wheel on their own. I always recommend just one on the back as being nescessary,
a front plate serves no real purpose.
As the DSA have taken to recommending them for new drivers, it is probably just a question of time before they are a legal requirement.
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Anyone know what the difference between the green "p" plates and the green "L" plates are -no its not a joke I really want to know.
chris
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Neither have any legal meaning as they are strictly a voluntary fitment, but they both indicate a newly qualified driver. P plates are generally accepted as being the better of the two as the green L might be confused with a red L plate at night.
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I was (and still am to a certain extent) a very nervous drive and my instructor (who was female if that makes any difference) who was the only one to experience my driving before the test actually advised me against them for many of the same reasons that have already been stated here. I don't know if drivers were more or less agressive towards my dawdling and hesitations without the Ps cos i was convinced they were ALL out to get me anyway ;o)
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I kept my P plate on for ages as I didn't do a great deal of miles in the first year so the 'they're all out to get me feeling' lasted quite some time! I found them to be useful as soon as I took them off I am sure other drivers were less tolerant of mistakes or me even sticking to the speed limit. I know I'm always more careful when I see a car nearby with Ps and expect a bit more hesitation or erratic driving. Seems daft to me that others aren't so tolerant.
teabelly
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I passed my test soon after P plates were introduced. As a 17 year old male, I was dead set against them. My friends would have laughed for weeks.
My younger sister, who was a much less confident driver than I am (and at 21, with 3 years' experience, still is) didn't have them either.
My personal opinion is that, if your daughter wants them because she is nervous about driving, and she feels that other drivers will understand her better, then she should have them. If she is worried about being identified as a new driver, it's probably better that she drive without them.
Being a good driver at 17 (I have not yet crashed, at 24, but my sister did within 6 months, although I am more assertive/aggressive than her) is about finding the right level of confidence and smoothness, and learning to anticipate road conditions. Some people will need to be slowed down, others need to have faith in their abilities and have a faster car than my ex-girlfriend's 1.0 Polo.
If I see a car with P plates, I will tend to allow for them to screw up while pulling off at roundabouts and the like, although not that much more than other drivers as I fully expect them to be crap too. In the end, I guess what I'm saying is that you should let her decide, but talk about the issue, because what you want is a daughter who is safe, relaxed and confident behind the wheel.
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I don't see that they would do any harm, but judging from the lack of courtesy often shown to Learners in driving school cars I don't neccessarily think it would help either. It's a bit like those 'Baby on Board' signs. "Ah, that should stop people deliberately ramming the car!"
They had just come in when I passed and I subscribed to the point of view that I did not want to be singled out for any reason whatsoever.
Although I am generally cynical, I perhaps should have more faith in my fellow man and say that it would make people behave with more courtesy. I know that I am more courteous to Learners and P plate drivers. Like many things in life, if it makes you feel better then do it. When I passed, I planned my first few drives like a military campaign, with details of route and nasty right turns onto fast roads minimised. That may well have been my personal 'P plate'!
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Can't say I've ever seen a P plate! they must be unpopular in Norfolk for some reason. When I passed my test 18 yrs ago, I can just imagine my reaction to a suggestion that I should carry them. Not surprised that they are not popular with blokes, we all imagine we are Alain Prost in disguise.
I literally couldn't wait to get rid of the L plates, and took them off my 125 so I could take my mate on the back. 4 points and £50 later, my lesson was learned.....
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"I literally couldn't wait to get rid of the L plates, and took them off my 125 so I could take my mate on the back."
The last time I got pulled by plod was for the opposite reason.
My normal bike being in for service I used my scooter, which is normally driven by SHMBO on L plates.
I didn't bother to take them off and had to waste time producing my licence on the hard shoulder of the M11.
Brian
Still learning (I hope)
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The purpose of 'baby on board' signs was originally intended for emergency services to use in case of an accident! If those signs are noticed on a car, they'll know to look for a little one whom they might otherwise miss in reckage. It's not a warning to other drivers! :)
They have become so heavily merchandised most people don't know their original use anymore, unfortunately.
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The purpose of 'baby on board' signs was originally intended for emergency services to use in case of an accident! If those signs are noticed on a car, they'll know to look for a little one whom they might otherwise miss in reckage. It's not a warning to other drivers! :)
They have become so heavily merchandised most people don't know their original use anymore, unfortunately.
I suspect 90% of those who instal such things simply put them there to show how clever they are to have had children.
As for those who display "Little princess on board" signs, words fail me.
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The purpose of 'baby on board' signs was originally intended for emergency services to use in case of an accident! If those signs are noticed on a car, they'll know to look for a little one whom they might otherwise miss in reckage. It's not a warning to other drivers! :)
An urban myth doodle. At no point were we told that these signs were meant for us. You can see if a child is involved by evidence. The child car seat or booster, by asking those in the car or looking for other pointers.
Who's to say the car is being driven empty of children but with the sign still in the window. It would waste a lot of time if we relied on just that.
The sign was originally made up to show the driver behind the reason for the mimsing driving as the parent didn't want to drive too hard by waking up their little angel.
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If you still think people are out to get you should you really be driving? A P plate won't change that.
Especially if you are a boy your mates will mercilessly rip the p***. I was with my 17 year old son who passed his test a few months ago when we saw a car with P plates, he was somewhat uncomplimentary about the driver.
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My daughter passed her test in April and I put P plates in the car. You have to remember that she has gone from someone constantly next to her and with dual controls to being on her own. She doesn't have someone perpetually correcting her driving now. If you are behind someone who stalls at the RAB or signals, you get the stroppy git blasting the horn to get a move on. There will be times she does this, and at least the people behind might excuse her a little. She will gradually build up confidence and the P plates are just a warning to other drivers to give a little understanding for a period. We were all there once. It will be for a short period not months on end. They are being used for the intended purpose. And none of her mates have taken the p*** out of her. In fact they have been happy for her to drive them without giving her stick.
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It will be for a short period not months on end.
We bought our son a set after he passed his test when he was 17. He didn't use them long, perhaps only a week, but it was his decision when to remove them. I think it's a good idea, as you say the youngster goes from having a constant companion to driving alone, and it helps their confidence for them to have that perceived little bit of protection that the "P" plate gives them. As true now as it was 11 years ago when the thread started! ;-)
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If you still think people are out to get you should you really be driving? A P plate won't change that. Especially if you are a boy your mates will mercilessly rip the p***. I was with my 17 year old son who passed his test a few months ago when we saw a car with P plates, he was somewhat uncomplimentary about the driver.
Maybe that say more about your sons attitude?
I think they in theory are a good idea but know from experience that having the L on the car doesn't mean someone will make allowances for you.
Personally if I see a P on a car I'll always be extra vigilent although I'm not someone who would get irate and agressive anyway if someone stalled or was a bit slow manouvering.
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Good thinking, Ben 10. I'd much rather be driven by your daughter than DRD63's son, who probably ought to go on a Pass Plus course which hopefully might change his attitude.
Agreed, not everyone gives Ls and Ps leeway, but there are enough of us around, like Alan above, to make the P plate worthwhile. But you probably can't force a new young driver to use one.
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He's taken and passed pass plus, next is advanced driving.
Each to their own but I'd rather be in a car with a confident competent driver who wants to excel than a ditherer who lacks the confidence or technical skill to manage a complex and potentially hazardous task.
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