Modern cars - Phantom braking - John F

I've read a couple of reports of sudden unexpected braking resulting in rear end shunts in cars equipped with this, er, 'safety' feature and wondered if this is becoming widespread? I haven't seen it mentioned here, but I guess most posters, like me, only have four or low five figure 'investments' in our wasting assets which thankfully lack this frightening (in)capability.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - Adampr

I think it has been mentioned before. Either way, I used to have a Golf that had a particular penchant for it.

My current Vitara doesn't brake but does like to beep quite insistently when it perceives a non-existent risk.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - gordonbennet

Up to a point i can put up with and modify my driving to suit the on board AEBS demon, but blowed if i'll ever buy a car that interferes with the steering which the newest models do, on another forum a discussion about this is revealing some terrifying incidents.

Can't wait (not) until the fools decide to implement this ridiculous tech on trucks, it'll be fun when the 44 ton Scania coming towards you doesn't like the driver keeping over to the left and pushes the truck to the right at just the right moment.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - Bromptonaut

I've had two Skodas with the auto braking function.

The Fabia did actually brake for me on a couple of occasions, both in the same place/situation.

As you come out of Northampton towards M1 J16 the road opens out from a curve so you can see a reasonable distance, at least as far as a major traffic lit junction maybe 600 yards ahead. As I looked up to observe traffic over that distance the damn thing thought I was too near the car in front and banged the brakes on just as my foot was going for the pedal.

Mildly alarming but no real issue.

It also got cross and bleeped a lot if I was taking an opportunity on a roundabout and somebody, whose presence was accounted for, skimmed across my bows.

The current Superb has the facility but it's never actually applied the brake.

Couple of recent courtesy cars had the 'wheel tug' thing if a white line was crossed. Caught me moving towards the crown of the road to improve visibility around a narrow rail overbridge.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - Ian_SW

I've never had it occur at any speed, though my wife's 2022 Leon was convinced we had a suicidal bush part way down our drive until I pruned it a bit.

Before the bush was pruned, despite there being plenty of room the car would slam on the brakes around a quarter of the times you went down the drive. It was very consistent, and always applied in exactly the same place, which could be seen by the hole in the gravel which the car dug!!

My car (Swace) has beeped at me a small number of times in moving traffic type incidents, usually with good reason such as another car doing something unexpected or stupid, and I was already on the way to applying the brake anyway every time. I don't think I've ever had a false alarm from it which shows the technology can be done right if manufacturers can be bothered to test it properly.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - bathtub tom

my wife's 2022 Leon was convinced we had a suicidal bush part way down our drive until I pruned it a bit.

Before the bush was pruned

Snicker!

Modern cars - Phantom braking - Andrew-T

These tales sound a bit like being on a plane and being told to Brace! Brace! while the car goes Brake! Brake! without warning .... :-(

Modern cars - Phantom braking - paul 1963

By strange coincidence my Swift decided to apply the brakes this afternoon due to a young lad walking in-between parked cars, stopped b***** quick!

Modern cars - Phantom braking - catsdad

My 2018 Golf has it and every couple of months it throws up a dash image of a crashing car. Sometimes with reason, usually not. It’s never braked itself (going forward) but when I first got it I looked at online videos of people trying to provoke it with cardboard boxes and the like. Again with mixed results. I seem to recall the first applications of the VW technology would brake for a flying crisp packet so maybe it’s been dialled back.

Reversing however is another matter and if you’ve not already braked for a few feet while reversing it will throw on the anchors when anything gets in range. The first time it happened I thought I’d hit a brick wall, it’s so severe. The trick seems to be to touch the brake occasionally during the reverse, a few feet before you are near anything. This seems to stop it happening when you resume the manoeuvre.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - davecooper

Had the visual and audible warning of an imminent collision on the odd occasion but no autonomous braking. Absolutely nowhere near a collision, I can tell better than the car whether I am going to have a collision or not.

What does annoy me is people overtaking and then cutting back in when I am using cruise control. Then the car brakes to reestablish a safe following distance. Why can't people actually leave some space before moving back in. I was always told to pull back in once you could see all of the overtaken vehicle in your rear view mirror.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - Metropolis.
This annoys me as well, and also people that overtake only to slow down once in front of you.

When there’s an incline I think I can tell when others are not using cruise control, my car, still set to 70 as it was before the incline, will start overtaking those who had overtaken me on the flat.
Modern cars - Phantom braking - Manatee

I am unlikely now ever to buy a new car. Too much carp on them. I might have been tempted to update the MX-5 while they are still available but they now come with so much unwanted stuff that I'd rather keep the 8 year old one another 8 years. I'll be 80 then, if spared.

The latest ones have a big capacitor to store recovered energy, to reduce alternator load under power and improve fuel economy by probably ~0.001%. The trouble is the DC-DC converter can fail and if it does it's an £1800 part. Why would anybody want that? It appears to add about 11Kg of weight too.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - gordonbennet

I am unlikely now ever to buy a new car. Too much carp on them. I might have been tempted to update the MX-5 while they are still available but they now come with so much unwanted stuff that I'd rather keep the 8 year old one another 8 years. I'll be 80 then, if spared.

The latest ones have a big capacitor to store recovered energy, to reduce alternator load under power and improve fuel economy by probably ~0.001%. The trouble is the DC-DC converter can fail and if it does it's an £1800 part. Why would anybody want that? It appears to add about 11Kg of weight too.

Increasingly feeling much the same, have quite enough carp on the trucks i drive to be going on with, apart from that SWMBO would hate the nannying stuff.

Landcruiser is 20 years old now and shows no signs of nearing end of life, probably still be going fine when they plant me, may look round for someone who knows what they are doing to slip a new set of injectors and glowplugs in and set the (shim) tappets, was a time i'd have done this myself, i do all my own servicing rustproofing etc but 6 or so hours spent bent over the bonnet isn't tempting.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - John F

I am unlikely now ever to buy a new car. .....I might have been tempted to update the MX-5 while they are still available but they now come with so much unwanted stuff that I'd rather keep the 8 year old one another 8 years. I'll be 80 then, if spared.

Likewise. Just make sure the rust cancer doesn't spread! I plan to keep my 45yr old TR7 for another 20yrs. I'll be 95 then.

The latest ones have a big capacitor to store recovered energy, to reduce alternator load under power and improve fuel economy by probably ~0.001%. The trouble is the DC-DC converter can fail and if it does it's an £1800 part. Why would anybody want that? It appears to add about 11Kg of weight too.

I am becoming convinced that the motor industry has gone the way of aircraft manufacturers - sell the complex electro-mechanical stuff cheap and make the money out of repairs and maintenance. If our 2019 Pug 2008 had been repaired at a Peugeot dealer (new wing mirror, sourced from a breaker and replaced by me for £85..bill would have been north of £500); faulty wheel speed sensor (sorted by indie for £360 including new rear discs and pads), we'd have spent over £1000 by now!

Edited by John F on 27/08/2025 at 11:31

Modern cars - Phantom braking - bathtub tom

I am becoming convinced that the motor industry has gone the way of aircraft manufacturers - sell the complex electro-mechanical stuff cheap and make the money out of repairs and maintenance.

Lucas (the prince of darkness) earned their reputation from auto electrics. Manufacturers bought on price and Lucas obliged. They also made components for the aircraft industry to a much higher specification (couldn't have planes falling out of the sky).

Modern cars - Phantom braking - martin.mc

My Clio hybrid has Auto Emergency Braking and occasionally flashes a warning , usually in a 30mph zone, but has never applied the brakes so far. It can be disabled with four presses of the touch screen but resets every time the car is started. As others have said, I won't be buying another new car. Too complicated now. Miss my old Duster and will probably get another one (pre 2025 though).

Modern cars - Phantom braking - Adampr

It's beginning to sound like people should look for the lowest possible EuroNCAP rating on new cars to minimise the amount of extraneous garbage that comes attached to the car.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - bazza

That's one big reason I bought a Vitara, not a single bong or chime to annoy me, no radar, no autonomous anything and a nice manual handbrake and gearbox too! It does have cruise but I never use it, it has android auto which is quite useful at times and that's it!

Modern cars - Phantom braking - Adampr

That's one big reason I bought a Vitara, not a single bong or chime to annoy me, no radar, no autonomous anything and a nice manual handbrake and gearbox too! It does have cruise but I never use it, it has android auto which is quite useful at times and that's it!

Mine beeps and changes the dash to red if someone slows down in front of me. It's like driving my mum around.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - Big John

Mine beeps and changes the dash to red if someone slows down in front of me. It's like driving my mum around.

My Swace is more subtle , if it thinks you are getting way to close it initially gently slows you down. The only time it's beeped / displayed a red warning is when approaching parked cars partially/fully behind them anticipating a gap in oncoming traffic to get past. Generally it's not in your face and seems to get most things right although it's got the odd speed limit sign wrong - usually correct though and useful, already saved me a speed awareness course.

The DRCC is very configurable as well.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - SLO76
Our three new Mercedes Cityline minibuses are bad for this. It’s far too sensitive, I’ve had it jump on the brakes when I’ve been nowhere near an impact, just passing parked vehicles in busy traffic. Yet to figure out how to turn the damned thing off
Modern cars - Phantom braking - Engineer Andy

Have manufacturers managed to fix the issue with sensors being set off because an errant piece of litter or plastic bag blows onto them?

It always seemed daft to me that such 'safety' features relied on just one sensor (I presume they are that centrally-place square one under the number plate) and not, say, 2 or 3, like parking sensor system use.

In fact, when don't they have a combined system for both, just taking into account the speed of the car as to whether the brakes activate on their own or just give a warning for proximity?

Or systems (say for parking) that don't allow the gas pedal to engage if a person or animal is detected in the geared direction of travel within X distance?

That might stop those tragic deaths (especially for automatics) where the victim was run over on their own driveway (like that Star Trek actor), or by a friend/spouse when the driver mistakenly put the car in reverse or hit the gas instead of the brake?

Just me spit-balling some ideas.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - Adampr

Have manufacturers managed to fix the issue with sensors being set off because an errant piece of litter or plastic bag blows onto them?

It always seemed daft to me that such 'safety' features relied on just one sensor (I presume they are that centrally-place square one under the number plate) and not, say, 2 or 3, like parking sensor system use.

In fact, when don't they have a combined system for both, just taking into account the speed of the car as to whether the brakes activate on their own or just give a warning for proximity?

Or systems (say for parking) that don't allow the gas pedal to engage if a person or animal is detected in the geared direction of travel within X distance?

That might stop those tragic deaths (especially for automatics) where the victim was run over on their own driveway (like that Star Trek actor), or by a friend/spouse when the driver mistakenly put the car in reverse or hit the gas instead of the brake?

Just me spit-balling some ideas.

I can't say for certain, but I think it's normally a radar behind or just under the grille badge. Subaru (of course) use a different system with cameras at the top of the windscreen. Apparently, it actually works, so I suspect the answer to your question is that it's more expensive to make a decent one.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - Engineer Andy

Have manufacturers managed to fix the issue with sensors being set off because an errant piece of litter or plastic bag blows onto them?

It always seemed daft to me that such 'safety' features relied on just one sensor (I presume they are that centrally-place square one under the number plate) and not, say, 2 or 3, like parking sensor system use.

In fact, when don't they have a combined system for both, just taking into account the speed of the car as to whether the brakes activate on their own or just give a warning for proximity?

Or systems (say for parking) that don't allow the gas pedal to engage if a person or animal is detected in the geared direction of travel within X distance?

That might stop those tragic deaths (especially for automatics) where the victim was run over on their own driveway (like that Star Trek actor), or by a friend/spouse when the driver mistakenly put the car in reverse or hit the gas instead of the brake?

Just me spit-balling some ideas.

I can't say for certain, but I think it's normally a radar behind or just under the grille badge. Subaru (of course) use a different system with cameras at the top of the windscreen. Apparently, it actually works, so I suspect the answer to your question is that it's more expensive to make a decent one.

Odd, how all this was supposed to be for 'safety', which is supposed to save money by avoiding, not causing serious accidents. I suspect it's more box-ticking to please political Overlords in Brussels.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - Xileno

We would need to have some stats on the number of accidents these systems may cause relative to the number of accidents avoided. How would we ever know about the latter category?

Modern cars - Phantom braking - Engineer Andy

We would need to have some stats on the number of accidents these systems may cause relative to the number of accidents avoided. How would we ever know about the latter category?

Presumably the type of accidents caused by them are more often when driving at 30+mph, often considerably more (especially those caused by sensor errors, not just something blowing across the car and getting caught over the sensor), whereas a good deal of ones avoided will be those at slowish speeds in more urban settings, like around schools, old peoples' homes, shopping areas, perhaps also around farms with livestock, where there is a higher likelihood of people (and animals) suddenly walking / running out in front of vehicles.

Whilst such sensors may stop the occasional accident of that latter type when driving above (say) 40mph, at best they will likely just lessen the severity of the crash and injuries, given the chances of the car stopping in time to avoid hitting the person will still be relatively low, given the much longer stopping distances as higher speeds.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - galileo

We would need to have some stats on the number of accidents these systems may cause relative to the number of accidents avoided. How would we ever know about the latter category?

Whilst such sensors may stop the occasional accident of that latter type when driving above (say) 40mph, at best they will likely just lessen the severity of the crash and injuries, given the chances of the car stopping in time to avoid hitting the person will still be relatively low, given the much longer stopping distances as higher speeds.

They would avert more accidents if they warned tailgaters they were too close, especially on motorways.

Yesterday I would estimate 80% of cars in lane 3 of M62, M61 and M6 were much closer than the recommended two seconds spacing. A likely cause of a two car bump near the M55 junction (which had, of course, led to 40 mph gantry signs back to the M61 and all-lane congestion.)

Ye can nae defy the laws o'physics, but too many think they can thanks to ABS, AEBS etc.

Edited by galileo on 01/09/2025 at 15:07

Modern cars - Phantom braking - gordonbennet

Ye can nae defy the laws o'physics, but too many think they can thanks to ABS, AEBS etc.

Quite, helped no end by buying the cheapest no name tyres they can find and running them right down to the legal minimum tread...brake servicing you ask? isn't that what the mot test is for.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - paul 1963

Ye can nae defy the laws o'physics, but too many think they can thanks to ABS, AEBS etc.

Quite, helped no end by buying the cheapest no name tyres they can find and running them right down to the legal minimum tread...brake servicing you ask? isn't that what the mot test is for.

Exactly that, well said Gordon.

Modern cars - Phantom braking - Engineer Andy

Ye can nae defy the laws o'physics, but too many think they can thanks to ABS, AEBS etc.

Quite, helped no end by buying the cheapest no name tyres they can find and running them right down to the legal minimum tread...brake servicing you ask? isn't that what the mot test is for.

Yep, with drivers who think their car (and a lot of vans) can reach 'warp speed' and that wet weather braking is 'fine' at 90+ with bald (essentially slick) tyres.

I wouldn't like to be in one of those cars that 'phantom brake' with some nut really close behind my car (even at road legal speeds), especially if that was a much larger vehicle and I had nowhere to go.