ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - Orb>>.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/25/california...l

Hard to believe that they are testing in other US states before getting cars working properly,

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - paul 1963

MCB recently posted his experience of using a driverless taxi so they must 'work'...

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - mcb100
The Waymo taxi in which I was a passenger was working in a geofenced area that had been 3D mapped to the nearest millimetre (or thousandth of an inch, given that it’s in the US).
No idea how one could send a truck on a new route without it having received similar data gathering.
ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - Maxime.

Just a thought.

Self driving trucks?

Who is going to load and unload it/them

Waymo works in a limited area. Not everywhere.

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - badbusdriver

Just a thought.

Self driving trucks?

Who is going to load and unload it/them

Waymo works in a limited area. Not everywhere.

Depending what is being transported, plenty of truck drivers already have nothing to do with the loading or unloading (beyond parking in the appropriate place).

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - alan1302

Just a thought.

Self driving trucks?

Who is going to load and unload it/them

Waymo works in a limited area. Not everywhere.

Depending what is being transported, plenty of truck drivers already have nothing to do with the loading or unloading (beyond parking in the appropriate place).

People at the start and end of the journey (not the driver)- as often happens now with a lot of trucks.

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - edlithgow

Just a thought.

Self driving trucks?

Who is going to load and unload it/them

Depends.

If, say, they are delivering for a Trump construction company, probably cheap illegal immigrants.

If they are delivering for one of his competitors, perhaps expensive robots? Or even unionised humans?

www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08/trump-organization...t

Edited by edlithgow on 02/05/2025 at 03:58

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - Terry W
The Waymo taxi in which I was a passenger was working in a geofenced area that had been 3D mapped to the nearest millimetre (or thousandth of an inch, given that it’s in the US). No idea how one could send a truck on a new route without it having received similar data gathering.

Whilst 3D mapping to the nearest mm is possible, it does not fix the driving environment - the systems must be able to respond to pedestrians, cyclists, parked cars, lorries unloading, accidents etc etc which are all completely variable.

Other changes scheduled or gradual which could be into updated mapping include signage (speed limits etc), roadworks, vegetation growth etc.

Homo-sapiens behind the wheel are capable of driving with only visual inputs + sat-nav (sometimes). They have no need of millimetric 3D maps.

Geofencing and detailed mapping may be a short term expedient assuming there are limitations with current software and sensors. As a long term solution it is a dead end.

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - gordonbennet

Homo-sapiens behind the wheel are capable of driving with only visual inputs + sat-nav (sometimes). They have no need of millimetric 3D maps.

Geofencing and detailed mapping may be a short term expedient assuming there are limitations with current software and sensors. As a long term solution it is a dead end.

Agreed.

Spending £££$$$billions of grants etc playing/experimenting with such ventures beats the hell out of working a real job for a living, jam tomorrow cans can be kicked down the road from apprenticeship through to comfortable retirements, politicians have been doing this for centuries.

None of us nor our children will ever see a fully driverless truck traversing normally trafficked open to the public British roads, thankfully.

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - misar

None of us nor our children will ever see a fully driverless truck traversing normally trafficked open to the public British roads, thankfully.

That seems to be a rather reckless prediction. I don't have a crystal ball any more than you but I do know that things regarded as total science fiction when I was a child have become reality during my lifetime. Not just possible but as mundane, everyday devices and services which today's children take for granted.

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - Bolt

None of us nor our children will ever see a fully driverless truck traversing normally trafficked open to the public British roads, thankfully.

That seems to be a rather reckless prediction. I don't have a crystal ball any more than you but I do know that things regarded as total science fiction when I was a child have become reality during my lifetime. Not just possible but as mundane, everyday devices and services which today's children take for granted.

as said its doubtful and unlikely they will be used full time, there is a lot of programming to do before they become a full time thing, certain companies are struggling to get the programming right and accidents occur all the time that are not heard about.

Apart from putting people out of work SDTs are a waste of time and money which is probably why a lot have given up and gone bust ......

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - Xileno

I guess we will just have to wait and see but I think it's years away. We are more likely to get a fully driverless train network first.

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - Terry W

as said its doubtful and unlikely they will be used full time, there is a lot of programming to do before they become a full time thing, certain companies are struggling to get the programming right and accidents occur all the time that are not heard about.

Apart from putting people out of work SDTs are a waste of time and money which is probably why a lot have given up and gone bust ......

Simple economics will make it happen much quicker than you think.

The obvious saving will be driver costs - including NI, pensions, insurance, training, recruitment etc.

Other impacts are more difficult to anticipate but may include:

  • smaller trucks with destination specific loads rather than artics with multiple drops
  • hardware will operate 24x7, not constrained by driver hours and regulation
  • distribution networks may change as smaller EVs can be used for shorter runs

Driverless vehicles already operate, albeit with possible human intervention. Robot deliveries operate in some cities - their smaller size makes them less of a threat but have sensors and software which allows them to navigate safely.

I would guess rollout will start withing 4-7 years, Any as yet unborn children will find them unremarkable - they will wonder that there was actually a time when it needed fallible human beings to pilot a vehicle.

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - Marlin1

  • smaller trucks with destination specific loads rather than artics with multiple drops
  • hardware will operate 24x7, not constrained by driver hours and regulation
  • distribution networks may change as smaller EVs can be used for shorter runs

Such a shame that all the local railway depots, sidings and lines have been closed. They would have been really useful for small loads to town centres / industrial estates.

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - alan1302

certain companies are struggling to get the programming right and accidents occur all the time that are not heard about.

If they are not reported how do you know? :-)

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - John F

Bring them on. They won't be throwing r****** and bottles full of urine out of the the window. Nor will they stop to dump domestic and commercial waste by the side of the road.

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - Sulphur Man

Saying 'driverless already exists with some human intervention' is nonsensical. The vehicle is not sans driver. Some poor unfortunate is sitting in the driving seat tasked with monitoring when the software and hardware might fail to operate safely and predictably - a miserable job which would leave anyone anxious on what might happen at any point in time.

Existing driving automation tech, allowing less interaction, still requires the driver to make a clear choice on when a Level 2 or Level 3 system can be engaged, and when it cannot. Which is a further decision point for the driver, on top of already driving a car in the traditional manner. So, in effect, a backward step.

There's a strong argument, which I support, that the ever-growing suite of vehicle automation being installed into cars is simply to negate the issue of cars getting ever bigger and more powerful - basically trying to protect other road users from unconfident/distracted drivers who struggle to stay in lane; operate touchscreens; reverse park; overtake; read signs etc etc. When you need a suite of high-definition cameras and other expensive sensors ready to blare out warning sounds and take control of a large car, there might be something inherently wrong with car design.

Anyway, look at parking sensors and cameras. They've been commonplace for over 20 years, but every car instruction manual will include the disclaimer that they are 'aids' to parking, and not infallible. The driver still has to be able to....drive. If that's progress, then 'driverless' cars, whatever that means, will never happen in any meaningful sense, apart from a US grid-city and a juicy data warehouse just to keep a cab service running.

Edited by Sulphur Man on 28/04/2025 at 14:49

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - galileo

Saying 'driverless already exists with some human intervention' is nonsensical. The vehicle is not sans driver. Some poor unfortunate is sitting in the driving seat tasked with monitoring when the software and hardware might fail to operate safely and predictably - a miserable job which would leave anyone anxious on what might happen at any point in time.

There was an incident on the Underground which details how not one but four train drivers failed to notice a passenger who had fallen on to the tracks.

The report notes that :

the repetitive nature of the task under automatic train operation may lead to a state of underload, resulting in the attentional capacity of train operators being diminished. This can increase the likelihood of effects on performance such as reduced alertness or distraction.

Report 01/2025: Fatal accident at Stratford London Underground station

Edited by galileo on 28/04/2025 at 17:09

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - gordonbennet

Saying 'driverless already exists with some human intervention' is nonsensical. The vehicle is not sans driver. Some poor unfortunate is sitting in the driving seat tasked with monitoring when the software and hardware might fail to operate safely and predictably - a miserable job which would leave anyone anxious on what might happen at any point in time.

There was an incident on the Underground which details how not one but four train drivers failed to notice a passenger who had fallen on to the tracks.

The report notes that :

the repetitive nature of the task under automatic train operation may lead to a state of underload, resulting in the attentional capacity of train operators being diminished. This can increase the likelihood of effects on performance such as reduced alertness or distraction.

Report 01/2025: Fatal accident at Stratford London Underground station

Indeed i've tried to describe the vegetative state syndrome before when the wheeze of the day was 'platooning' just another jam tomorrow headline that never came to anything, i won't go through it again boring everyone else as well as myself

They were going to trial it on some deserted sections of the M6 Cumbria, no doubt on a Sunday morn, then presumably roll it out on peak hours M25/A13/North Circular.

When i used to post on a well known trucker's forum, there were always experts popping up telling us of their trials with autonomous trucks and how brilliant they were and how they'd be here before you know it, that was probably 10 years ago the last one vanished, he disappeared like they mostly do when their breathtaking anouncements not only met with utter derision from decades served truck drivers who had been hearing tales like this for years on end, but none of these heady predictions ever came to pass.

The partly autonomous driving aids already fitted don't work as they are supposed to, drivers of decades experience have had to modify their driving, not in a good way, to stop things like AEBS from causing accidents, you can't find a secure phone signal that lasts going past a set of pylons, the new generation of AI cameras (reqd for that London) need constant fixing, yet we're supposed to believe all those truck drivers so despised on here (except when they're delivering essentials during national house arrest) will thankfully be all out of work in just a few years time.

On another forum, posts from some van drivers are finding their latest new issue vans are trying to steer them into oncoming traffic or the hedge, what lunatic ever thought allowing some half baked electronics to interfere with steering was a good idea, well if you want empty shelves in the shops plus stacked to the rafters hospital wards and funeral homes get truck makers to add that foolish gimmick to 44 tonners.

The thing about autonomous, is who's going to be taking the blame when error 404 crops up and our driverless wonder machine goes by its pretty well unstoppable self causing mayhem and destruction, does anyone really think some poor sap that's been sat in the cab vegetating for hours on end is going to take over at an instant and save the day by taking ideal action? ie he might as well be driving the blasted heap which he will be most of the time because that amount of electronics and sensors will throw endless faults....a quick persual of any drivers manual with reference to AEBS shows you where the blame lies, with you the driver, check the weasel words for yourselves.

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - misar

There was an incident on the Underground which details how not one but four train drivers failed to notice a passenger who had fallen on to the tracks.

The report notes that :

the repetitive nature of the task under automatic train operation may lead to a state of underload, resulting in the attentional capacity of train operators being diminished. This can increase the likelihood of effects on performance such as reduced alertness or distraction.

Report 01/2025: Fatal accident at Stratford London Underground station

I don't know what point @galileo intended to make but the London Underground is actually an excellent example of the benefit and safety of automated trains. They have operated successfully on the Victoria Line since 1968, the DLR since 1987, and are already used on around eight other tube lines.

The tube has had more such fatal accidents involving manually driven trains and the report did not even hint that automation is dangerous. Its first recommendation was to to consider the use of additional technology that can detect if a passenger is in a dangerous position and intervene or warn as necessary to stop an approaching or departing train.

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - Bolt

There was an incident on the Underground which details how not one but four train drivers failed to notice a passenger who had fallen on to the tracks.

The report notes that :

the repetitive nature of the task under automatic train operation may lead to a state of underload, resulting in the attentional capacity of train operators being diminished. This can increase the likelihood of effects on performance such as reduced alertness or distraction.

Report 01/2025: Fatal accident at Stratford London Underground station

I don't know what point @galileo intended to make but the London Underground is actually an excellent example of the benefit and safety of automated trains. They have operated successfully on the Victoria Line since 1968, the DLR since 1987, and are already used on around eight other tube lines.

The tube has had more such fatal accidents involving manually driven trains and the report did not even hint that automation is dangerous. Its first recommendation was to to consider the use of additional technology that can detect if a passenger is in a dangerous position and intervene or warn as necessary to stop an approaching or departing train.

the more electronics on a vehicle, any vehicle, the more chance of something going wrong which doesn`t appear to have been taken in by those that are into autonomy, as for the underground which is a terrible service though the air quality in the stations is worse and likely to cause problems to health is another thing which is not being taken notice of as they do not appear to be doing anything about it.

London air they say is bad, its nothing like as bad as the underground, but everyone is being asked to use it. odd imo.

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - alan1302

There was an incident on the Underground which details how not one but four train drivers failed to notice a passenger who had fallen on to the tracks.

The report notes that :

the repetitive nature of the task under automatic train operation may lead to a state of underload, resulting in the attentional capacity of train operators being diminished. This can increase the likelihood of effects on performance such as reduced alertness or distraction.

Report 01/2025: Fatal accident at Stratford London Underground station

I don't know what point @galileo intended to make but the London Underground is actually an excellent example of the benefit and safety of automated trains. They have operated successfully on the Victoria Line since 1968, the DLR since 1987, and are already used on around eight other tube lines.

The tube has had more such fatal accidents involving manually driven trains and the report did not even hint that automation is dangerous. Its first recommendation was to to consider the use of additional technology that can detect if a passenger is in a dangerous position and intervene or warn as necessary to stop an approaching or departing train.

the more electronics on a vehicle, any vehicle, the more chance of something going wrong which doesn`t appear to have been taken in by those that are into autonomy, as for the underground which is a terrible service though the air quality in the stations is worse and likely to cause problems to health is another thing which is not being taken notice of as they do not appear to be doing anything about it.

A link for you:

Underground Air Quality#mce_temp_url#

They are doing something about it. Why did you think they weren't?

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - Bolt

if you believe that you`ll believe anything, they advertise what they are doing to make it look good then no more happens and it all comes to a stop. oh but they are doing something, oh really

ANY California and elswhere - Self Driving trucks - alan1302

if you believe that you`ll believe anything, they advertise what they are doing to make it look good then no more happens and it all comes to a stop. oh but they are doing something, oh really

Based on that logic you won't believe anything at all - I'll leave you to your (hopefully happy) fantasy world.