ICE still in the game

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
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Tue 11 Jul 2023 18:44
ICE still in the game - sammy1

Renault and Aston Martin-backer make £5bn bet on hybrid and petrol cars despite net zero push (msn.com)

Serious money going into this and the Chinese are involved. Aston Martin now owned by China edging their bets. May be all those unsold EVs reported recently has got them worried

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Tue 11 Jul 2023 20:18
ICE still in the game - badbusdriver

Renault and Aston Martin-backer make £5bn bet on hybrid and petrol cars despite net zero push (msn.com)

Serious money going into this and the Chinese are involved. Aston Martin now owned by China edging their bets. May be all those unsold EVs reported recently has got them worried

Geely own 17% of Aston Martin, making them (the Chinese) third largest stakeholder.

Chinese companies may have some interest in brand's like Aston Martin simply for the kudos, but China itself is not really interested in ICE. Why?, because they don't have their own oil and they don't want to be obliged to other countries for it any more than absolutely necessary. This is why they are so committed to EV's.

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Wed 12 Jul 2023 00:34
ICE still in the game - Bolt

but China itself is not really interested in ICE.

they are, as they are making ice hydrogen cars and fuel cell, including buses lorries and have been for a while....

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Wed 12 Jul 2023 06:32
ICE still in the game - badbusdriver

but China itself is not really interested in ICE.

they are, as they are making ice hydrogen cars and fuel cell, including buses lorries and have been for a while....

AFAIK, hydrogen ICE is not really a thing yet (other than in a handful of working prototypes) due to the problems making it work as a direct replacement for petrol/diesel. But as you seem to be aware of it actually being used, perhaps you could provide a link?.

Hydrogen fuel cell does not use an ICE, the hydrogen powers the battery which powers an electric motor.........

Edited by badbusdriver on 12/07/2023 at 06:36

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Mon 17 Jul 2023 15:26
ICE still in the game - John F

...China itself is not really interested in ICE. Why?, because they don't have their own oil......

Not so. China has lots of oil and they keep finding more of it. But they do indeed lead the world in EV adoption (which need lots of oil to generate their E)

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Tue 11 Jul 2023 20:21
ICE still in the game - mcb100
Don’t forget that most of the world hasn’t made a commitment to EV by 2030/35.
There are an awful lot of territories where ICE and hybrid will be sold outside of EU/UK.
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Wed 12 Jul 2023 10:03
ICE still in the game - sammy1

Still in the Game and the UK

Brexit victory as £6 billion car engine deal proves leaving EU hasn't alienated business (msn.com)

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Wed 12 Jul 2023 10:36
ICE still in the game - madf

Sammy is braking sorry barking up the wrong tree on his objections of EVs,

It is called Insurance and its cost.

The cost of insuring an EV is rising c 30% pa I!!-

I - with 11+ years NCD - was quoted £250 fully comp 6k miles in 2021, then £350 in 2022, now £440 in 2023. Either a 2014 -17 BWM I3 or a 2016 Nissan EV . I currently pay £230 for my 2012 Honda Jazz...so a near doubling of insurance costs.

Driven by rising numbers of EVs being written off rather than repair and the need to store them before doing any work after a crash.

"EV batteries remain major challenge for insurers, Thatcham Research says"

www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ev-b.../

That will KILL the EV in the UK as far as widespread adoption is concerned.

Stand by for further huge rises in premiums.

The Government have not reacted at all - as you would expect.

Edited by madf on 12/07/2023 at 10:45

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Wed 12 Jul 2023 11:42
ICE still in the game - Adampr

Sammy is braking sorry barking up the wrong tree on his objections of EVs,

It is called Insurance and its cost.

The cost of insuring an EV is rising c 30% pa I!!-

I - with 11+ years NCD - was quoted £250 fully comp 6k miles in 2021, then £350 in 2022, now £440 in 2023. Either a 2014 -17 BWM I3 or a 2016 Nissan EV . I currently pay £230 for my 2012 Honda Jazz...so a near doubling of insurance costs.

Driven by rising numbers of EVs being written off rather than repair and the need to store them before doing any work after a crash.

"EV batteries remain major challenge for insurers, Thatcham Research says"

www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ev-b.../

That will KILL the EV in the UK as far as widespread adoption is concerned.

Stand by for further huge rises in premiums.

The Government have not reacted at all - as you would expect.

So, the premium is more on an £11k car than a £7k car? Noted.

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Wed 12 Jul 2023 14:07
ICE still in the game - madf

So, the premium is more on an £11k car than a £7k car? Noted.

I did not mention that the Nissan was a £6,800 car.

(I may be stupid but not that dumb:-)

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Wed 12 Jul 2023 10:56
ICE still in the game - mcb100
Geely already has hundreds employed in the UK - they’ve a massive facility in Coventry and also at the MIRA test facility in Warwickshire.
I’m not so sure we’re going to be seeing any engine production in the UK.

Edited by mcb100 on 12/07/2023 at 11:23

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Wed 12 Jul 2023 12:50
ICE still in the game - sammy1
Geely already has hundreds employed in the UK - they’ve a massive facility in Coventry and also at the MIRA test facility in Warwickshire. I’m not so sure we’re going to be seeing any engine production in the UK.

You have not mentioned Aston Martin in St. Athan South Wales. The article mentions 19000 jobs so what will they be doing

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Wed 12 Jul 2023 12:59
ICE still in the game - sammy1

""Sammy is braking sorry barking up the wrong tree on his objections of EVs,

It is called Insurance and its cost."""

How did my Tag come up in this. No objection to EV they just need to get more practical for me to consider. The attached link may help

New rules to make it easier to use public electric car chargers (msn.com)

As regards insurance well yes premiums are very high for EVs but but but the rest of us may, will probably pay more as insurance will say a car is a car

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Wed 12 Jul 2023 13:50
ICE still in the game - Bolt

""Sammy is braking sorry barking up the wrong tree on his objections of EVs,

It is called Insurance and its cost."""

How did my Tag come up in this. No objection to EV they just need to get more practical for me to consider. The attached link may help

New rules to make it easier to use public electric car chargers (msn.com)

As regards insurance well yes premiums are very high for EVs but but but the rest of us may, will probably pay more as insurance will say a car is a car

I think as has been said before that insurance may write off EVs that have had the battery pack damaged in any way, as there is no way of telling what damage has been done to the pack.

also any fires that do occur after an accident will be hard to extinguish and then be put into a skip/tank of water which will write off the car anyway thats without any damage to surrounding buildings and cars within the area of the motor on fire.

I gather they have made and trialling a flame/fire retardant cloth material to cover the car and give them a chance to move it into a tank to cool the batteries down, we will see how this goes though the video looked like it worked ok just a problem getting the cover over the car

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Sun 16 Jul 2023 13:24
ICE still in the game - Manatee

Still in the Game and the UK

Brexit victory as £6 billion car engine deal proves leaving EU hasn't alienated business (msn.com)

Sadly the usual suspects are lying again.

All of the 17 plants will be outside the UK, !9,000 jobs are not coming here. If there is a Brexit dividend, it is that UK is not a good place to make these products and the deal proves the opposite of what they are claiming.

It is "intended" to put the administrative HQ in the UK - an office Not R&D, design, or manufacturing AIUI. Perhaps for tax reasons.

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Wed 12 Jul 2023 13:07
ICE still in the game - mcb100
‘The article mentions 19000 jobs so what will they be doing’

It also says at 17 plants, so let’s see where in the world they are and what
‘Renault and Geely said in a statement that the new company will use its UK headquarters to "consolidate operations, build on synergies, and define future plans."’
means.
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Tue 18 Jul 2023 21:43
ICE still in the game - madf

EV video worth watching especially 10:53 profit per car.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iAPGaT5dE8

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Thu 20 Jul 2023 13:26
ICE still in the game - madf

Toyota peaked at 12m cars a year.

Last year was 10M,

This year may be 9 M. Bet on two wrong horses: hydrogen and hybrids,

Tesla have announced a reduction in size and wight of new batteries by 50%. Available in two years time. Makes Toyota's solid state system - due in 2027 seem obsolete now.

EVs will have double the range by 2030 due to these changes. IC cars? nothing. new.

GM are planning on IC cars with minimal investment in EVs.. They will be be bust before 2035 if they continue as is.

Edited by madf on 20/07/2023 at 13:27

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Thu 20 Jul 2023 18:54
ICE still in the game - RT
GM are planning on IC cars with minimal investment in EVs.. They will be be bust before 2035 if they continue as is.

GM presently has 4 EVs on sale, GMC Hummer, Cadillac Lyriq, Chevrolet Bolt and Chevrolet Bolt EV - shortly to be joined by EV versions of Chevrolet Silverado, Chevrolt Blazer and Chevrolet Equinox

GM is investing billions of dollars in Ultium EV technology - but given their huge sales of IC trucks they're continuing investment in them as well.

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Thu 20 Jul 2023 20:25
ICE still in the game - badbusdriver

GM presently has 4 EVs on sale, GMC Hummer, Cadillac Lyriq, Chevrolet Bolt and Chevrolet Bolt EV

So Bolt and Bolt EV are both EV's?

Odd.........

Edited by badbusdriver on 20/07/2023 at 20:25

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Thu 20 Jul 2023 22:08
ICE still in the game - RT

GM presently has 4 EVs on sale, GMC Hummer, Cadillac Lyriq, Chevrolet Bolt and Chevrolet Bolt EV

So Bolt and Bolt EV are both EV's?

Odd.........

My bad - that should have read Bolt and Bolt SUV

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Thu 20 Jul 2023 21:15
ICE still in the game - alan1302

Tesla have announced a reduction in size and wight of new batteries by 50%. Available in two years time. M

That's if they come out in that time...Tesla are not good at sticking to the timescales they give out.

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Thu 20 Jul 2023 21:16
ICE still in the game - alan1302

Toyota peaked at 12m cars a year.

Last year was 10M,

This year may be 9 M. Bet on two wrong horses: hydrogen and hybrids,

Tesla have announced a reduction in size and wight of new batteries by 50%. Available in two years time. Makes Toyota's solid state system - due in 2027 seem obsolete now.

EVs will have double the range by 2030 due to these changes. IC cars? nothing. new.

GM are planning on IC cars with minimal investment in EVs.. They will be be bust before 2035 if they continue as is.

Between 2020 and 2025 they are spenidng $35 billion.

GM Will Boost EV and AV Investments to $35 Billion Through 2025

In what way is that minimal investment?

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