Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics!

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Wed 20 Jan 2021 21:21
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Metropolis.

If you do not agree or want to avoid politics, no pressure to read this thread.

A few people have been commenting that politics shouldn't come into a motoring forum. However I think cars and politics are heavily intertwined and find this aspect of motoring fascinating. Saab drivers were stereotyped as dentists, Mondeo Man got a mention by Tony Blair as a key group, the original Mini totally ignored class divides... this is a short list so any other recollections welcomed!

There was an interesting article in Forbes back in October, albeit it is about the USA, concerning what someone's car says about how someone will likely vote. I will post the link below. I suspect the inclinations of BMW drivers across the pond are quite different to our own BMW drivers but I am not certain.

www.forbes.com/wheels/news/what-your-car-might-say.../

Any suggestions for how this compares to Britain? Any era.

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Wed 20 Jan 2021 22:50
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - edlithgow

So drivers of stupidly obese trucks are stupidly obese Republicans who voted stupidly obese Trump? Not exactly a penetrating insight

(Ok Trumps not all that obese, but I was on a roll).

Its not always so obvious though.

For example, Communists mostly drove Ladas in the Soviet Union, but Communists in Cuba mostly drove 1950's Chevvy's

Are we sure of the cause-effect relationship though? For example, does driving a Lada MAKE you a lefty? Worked for me.

If that's so Boris might have a reason to reverse the switch to electric vehicles (and it'll be fiercely resisted by armed militia in America).

Reds under the Tesla Cybertruck flatbed

Edited by edlithgow on 21/01/2021 at 05:20

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 15:16
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - John F

(Ok Trumps not all that obese, but I was on a roll).

According to various sources his BMI is just over 30, the threshold for a diagnosis of obesity. To digress, I am dismayed that in all the publicity about the risk of corvid the great overweight public is hardly ever exhorted to lose weight. Almost all the victims they portray in the heartstring-tugging news reports are clearly overweight.

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Fri 22 Jan 2021 01:53
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - edlithgow

(Ok Trumps not all that obese, but I was on a roll).

According to various sources his BMI is just over 30, the threshold for a diagnosis of obesity.

So in US terms, he;s a political lightweight?

(Well, he is now)

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Wed 20 Jan 2021 23:39
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Avant

I suspect things are less stereotyped than they used to be (and maybe still are in the USA).

About 80% of us are centrists and although we might be interested in politics, as I am, we don't conform to type as people did in my youth. I had a splendid and very patriotic advanced driving instructor who taught me all about observation ("Watch that Renault with the engine at the wrong end. It's French and the engine could fall out at any minute"), and also told me not to assume that a Rover was driven by a conservative type. Owned by him, but maybe driven erratically by his left-wing student son.

I drive an Audi and I'm a centrist: I was still a centrist when I drove a Skoda. SWMBO is deeply Conservative: she too has an Audi now but used to have a succession of Mini Coopers. Make of that what you will !

But some cars give an impression even if it isn't a political one.

BMW - I enjoy driving and BMWs are at their best when driven to their limits.

Mercedes saloon - I enjoy my status.

Mercedes estate - I'm well paid but I work hard. This car has a job to do and does it well.

Vauxhall - this car was chosen for me by someone else OR their value drops like a stone and it was a very good buy secondhand.

Ford - a company car but I was able to choose it myself. Great to drive.

Skoda - I bought a workhorse but it's actually made me enjoy driving again.

VW - I thought it was better quality than a cheaper Skoda but I'm not so sure now.

Land Rover - I want to be thought of as a country gent but the only time it goes off-road is when my wife mounts the kerb outside the school.

Toyota - this car is going to last me 20 years.

Volvo - the last one lasted me 20 years, but I think I should have got a Toyota.

Peugeot - my husband chose this for me and I can't find how to turn the heating up.

Electric car - you're meant to think I bought this to do my bit for the environment. Actually I got it because it goes like the clappers.

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 09:28
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - edlithgow

Centrists think they own it, so they drive in the Middle Of The Road

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Wed 20 Jan 2021 23:48
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Metropolis.
Ha! Thanks for the laugh both of you, not got time to reply properly but reading those made me chuckle. Cheers
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Thu 21 Jan 2021 01:37
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Bilboman

Excuse the slight topic drift, but how about old money vs new money cars?
For me, old money is represented by Mercedes, Jaguar, Rolls, possibly Lexus; New money is Audi, BMW, Bentley, Ferrari, Aston Martin. Further categories would have to include "don't care about money" e.g. Dacia, Skoda, Smart. There are different variants in different countries, e.g. the really old money in France or Italy is likely to be driving a 15 year old Peugeot or Fiat, as the eye watering property tax has swallowed up the ready cash. No idea how it all goes in the USA, as I haven't a clue what the last generation of Oldsmobile, Plymouth or Pontiac drivers buzz around in nowadays.

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 07:25
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - primus 1

What about, “ I bought a six year old diesel Range Rover to do 3 miles a day, I live life on the edge”

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 08:51
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Alby Back
One Wife, Livid ?
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Thu 21 Jan 2021 10:07
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Alby Back
I genuinely don't give a flying fig about what others choose to drive, or indeed what they might or might not think about my car.

I do, however, care quite a lot about my own car choices, and have spent far too much time agonising about them though. ;-)

What others drive is up to them, I have no useful opinion on their choices, the only thing I give any thought to about other drivers, is whether they are driving, whatever they are driving, in a manner that might present an imminent problem to me.

If someone really thinks they are sending messages to the rest of society by driving a particular vehicle then they are probably not. Does anyone actually care who the guy in the traffic jam next to you is, or what he thinks of himself? I'm pretty sure he's not wasting any of his time trying to analyse me.

I love cars, always have, and I love to see exotic ones, sporty ones or just unusual ones, but it's the car that gets my interest, not the driver.

But of course, it's more than possible that I'm strange. ;-)

Edited by Alby Back on 21/01/2021 at 10:08

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 12:14
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - madf

I want a car that sticks two fingers in the air to anyone who cares enough about my car to worry avout it.

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Fri 22 Jan 2021 00:52
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - edlithgow

I want a car that sticks two fingers in the air to anyone who cares enough about my car to worry avout it.

I have that officially covered, Might get me fired though.

The trick is to get most of the paint eroded by sunlight down to the primer. Car has to be fairly old for that even here.

I dunno how you could achieve "The Look" in "The Yook" though on non-geological timescales, unless you park and work somewhere with very high local levels of acid rain, as my father did (SAI fertilizer plant).

LOTS of T-cut and elbow grease?

Wash it down with dilute brake fluid? (test for non-incompatability on a small area first) .

Edited by edlithgow on 22/01/2021 at 01:04

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 12:58
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Andrew-T
What others drive is up to them, I have no useful opinion on their choices, the only thing I give any thought to about other drivers, is whether they are driving, whatever they are driving, in a manner that might present an imminent problem to me.

As a rule I don't take much notice of the badges on the thousands of cars one finds oneself among when driving. Except when something happens to make me think 'that was a stupid manoeuvre'. I don't think it is unconscious bias, but most of the time the culprit is a BMW, a Merc or an Audi. Perhaps behaving in accordance with the styles outlined by Avant above.

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 13:07
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Alby Back
Aye, well, y'see, now, that's a tricky one isn't it? I have a Merc, a Nissan and a Toyota, and I usually clean forget to drive the Merc in an unseemly manner.

Must try harder... ;-)

Edited by Alby Back on 21/01/2021 at 13:09

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 13:26
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - RT

I don't buy cars to impress other people, I buy them to suit my perceived needs - a Touareg which has all the luxury I want, but wait, a VW with a 3 litre diesel how anti-social - and a Citroen C1, base model so no gadgets to fail due to French electrics.

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 13:42
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - mcb100
‘ and a Citroen C1, base model so no gadgets to fail due to French electrics.’

So why not buy a Toyota Aygo and have Japanese electrics? They are all built in the same factory in Czech Republic
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Thu 21 Jan 2021 13:58
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Alby Back
Confusing though isn't it? It would seem that depending on which of our cars I use to drive to the polling station, that it might change my political views? Think I'll stick to going on my bike...although that probably means something else. Or not...
;-)
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Thu 21 Jan 2021 14:10
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - RT
‘ and a Citroen C1, base model so no gadgets to fail due to French electrics.’ So why not buy a Toyota Aygo and have Japanese electrics? They are all built in the same factory in Czech Republic

I simply wanted the cheapest Citroen C1 / Peugeot 107 / Toyota Aygo that was Euro 5 with no obvious faults - the C1 came up first

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 15:02
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - mcb100

It was a tongue in cheek question, relating to the perception of French cars having substandard electrics but Toyota regarded as being hewn from solid when all three three models come down parallel production lines in the Czech Republic being built by the same personnel using the same components, barring cosmetic finishes.

From this month, Toyota wholly own the plant and produce the 108 and C1 under subcontract for PSA, further adding to the confusion over the origin of cars.

Edited by mcb100 on 21/01/2021 at 15:02

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 15:21
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - John F

Bentley Flying Spur ( the W12, natch) - benevolent dictatorshipist (me).

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 21:25
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Metropolis.

Lol, Daimler DS420 anyone?

Edited by Metropolis. on 21/01/2021 at 21:26

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 16:28
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - SLO76
Like any other rational thinking person I am centralist regarding politics. I lean a little to the right and swmbo leans a little to the left but there’s no great divide in our household politically. Despite my fairly affluent upbringing I am very much working class, almost communistical when it comes to my taste in cars, I’d rather run around in a Panda than a BMW.

My darling wife despite her working class upbringing and slight left wing slant is very much into posh cars, particularly large SUV’s and super cars, a lottery win would last no time in her hands. I don’t think we can tell a persons political opinion from the car they drive in the UK.
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Thu 21 Jan 2021 16:35
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - _

Before MGRover went bust, I mostly drove Rovers, but not top spec except for the 2.5 Rover 75, What did that make me Politically? Then an assortment of Korean cars till I tried a chinese one.

Now I drive the Sportage I,m just plain boring?

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 16:40
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - SLO76
Sadly though there’s plenty of political madness to be had in Scotland these days with the rise in nationalism over the last twenty five years. Many thanks go out to Tony Blair for handing a hugely costly podium to the nationalists to loudly blame every issue on Westminster and England. The hatred directed to those who oppose so-called independence is appalling and utterly shames us. I’ve lost friends, family members and relationships thanks to my belief that independence would be a negative thing. There’s arguments and hatred where none existed before but one upside is that you can usually spot the hardline, hate filled nationalist from the car they drive. It’s usually covered in flags and Yes banners. For this I am thankful as it saves me the bother of a conversation.
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Thu 21 Jan 2021 17:23
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Bromptonaut
Sadly though there’s plenty of political madness to be had in Scotland these days with the rise in nationalism over the last twenty five years. Many thanks go out to Tony Blair for handing a hugely costly podium to the nationalists to loudly blame every issue on Westminster and England. The hatred directed to those who oppose so-called independence is appalling and utterly shames us. I’ve lost friends, family members and relationships thanks to my belief that independence would be a negative thing. There’s arguments and hatred where none existed before but one upside is that you can usually spot the hardline, hate filled nationalist from the car they drive. It’s usually covered in flags and Yes banners. For this I am thankful as it saves me the bother of a conversation.

Now there's an example of how party politics gets into a thread that started as a light hearted point about the cars we drive.

I'm not a Scot but I've got a completely different take on the SNP and devolution.

Should I reply and expound that view or bite my lip and let SLO 'get away with it'?

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 18:38
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - _

My tuppence worth on independent parts of the uk, (since we are temporarily doing "thoughts")

Let em go if they want, Ireland for the Irish, etc etc No more subsidies as per the Brussels diktat.

My mother was a scots lass who married a half belgian half welshman and was ill regarded for not marrying one of her own....

The same happened to me when i married a swiss french girl back in '79, couldn't you find an english one....

No!

Get on with our lives.

What does it make us if our ancestors who were not British came and fought in 2 world wars for a country that was not their own, as their country was occupied.

I am not British, although a uk citizen of uk parents born in wales but I AM European, my daughers are European, we are of mixed national origins and mixed religious origins too.

Let us stop worrying about all this when there are greater challenges right in front of us.

Is it already April 1st for this thread?

Edited by _ORB_ on 21/01/2021 at 18:40

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 21:59
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - SLO76
“ I'm not a Scot but I've got a completely different take on the SNP and devolution.”



If you lived with the aggression and unpleasantness it’s caused up here and if your hard earned assets were under the threat of being turned into a new and untested currency that’s based on an overspending socialist governed state which would require huge spending cuts and tax rises to achieve the SNP’s state goal of rejoining the EU then you’d probably be a little less positive about it.

Brexit made zero economic sense but so-called Scottish independence is far far worse for all concerned. I am rightly horrified at the prospect and as we can see from the lag compared to the rest of the UK regarding employment and inward investment that I’m not the only one. How can anyone invest in a nation when you don’t even know what currency it’ll be using in a few years time? I don’t blame anyone for taking jobs overseas with the UK constantly in a state of implosion.

There needs to be a new law forcing politicians to accept the choice made by the electorate in a referendum for at least two decades otherwise we’ll see this neverendum continue to blight Scotland’s prospects indefinitely.
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Thu 21 Jan 2021 22:08
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - SLO76
“ Now there's an example of how party politics gets into a thread that started as a light hearted point about the cars we drive.”

Sorry, couldn’t resist it. Tensions run high up here regarding this and there’s much abuse if you don’t follow the separatist line. We see Conservative and Labour politicians verbally abused in the street and their offices vandalised. This was never a thing before devolution but the SNP have fired up the hate and turned fellow Scot on one another.

I have strong opinions on the subject but I don’t hate others for not agreeing, in fact my closest drinking buddy is a hardened left wing nationalist. We disagree on almost every subject yet we never come to blows. Sadly this is very much not the norm these days. I’ve faced threats and abuse for speaking out against independence in a way the Brexit argument never seen. Scotland is sadly a darker place in which to live these days and I too have an eye on the exit should the almost inevitable happen. The pro union movement is too segregated and ineffectual.
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Thu 21 Jan 2021 18:32
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Andrew-T
I’ve lost friends, family members and relationships thanks to my belief that independence would be a negative thing.

It looks like a microcosm of Brexit from where I sit. Neither of those movements made economic sense to me, but both attracted a lot of people with strong 'principles' which they didn't (don't) think through. A bit like electing Trump I suppose. Is it global ?

We have English relatives who settled in Scotland decades ago; most of them claim they would move back south if independence happened. I always thought Scots could be Scots when they felt like it and Brits at other times - have cake and eat. Not if the SNP get their way.

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 22:11
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - SLO76
I’ve lost friends, family members and relationships thanks to my belief that independence would be a negative thing.

It looks like a microcosm of Brexit from where I sit. Neither of those movements made economic sense to me, but both attracted a lot of people with strong 'principles' which they didn't (don't) think through. A bit like electing Trump I suppose. Is it global ?

We have English relatives who settled in Scotland decades ago; most of them claim they would move back south if independence happened. I always thought Scots could be Scots when they felt like it and Brits at other times - have cake and eat. Not if the SNP get their way.

With the tax rises and spending cuts a post independence SNP run Scotland would require, there would be huge capital and talent flight. Myself included.
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Fri 22 Jan 2021 01:22
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - edlithgow

Sorry to hear all this, since I still have a flat in Edinburgh, and I'd expect to move back there when the Taiwan gig folds, which it soon must. I'd think a lot of what you describe, and a lot of the impetus for Scottish Independence, is a reaction against Brexit, which conflicted people like myself that deprecate nationalism pretty much on principle, and Brexit for the same reason.

I should have got my savings out of Sterling a long time ago. I keep thinking its too late, but maybe worse is to come. If so, I won't be driving anything back in the UK.

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 19:04
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Metropolis.
I can imagine Nichols in a Hilman Imp, it would almost suit her.
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Thu 21 Jan 2021 17:48
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Metropolis.
Dangerous territory perhaps with the SNP and devolution, but this is a political thread so who gives I just hope it does not turn vitriolic and get closed! The beauty of living in a democracy is we all get to have our own views and express them, hopefully without being attacked personally for it. Attack the politics, not the person.

Back to cars I think the focus might be too much on causation as opposed to correlation. It is a tendency of certain groups to buy certain cars in the first place.

That said, I doubt driving a pickup truck makes you a Thatcherite, unless the truck somehow enables you to make your own way and start a business in which case it could influence who you vote for? You might see fuel duty going up and vote for a party that opposes it, if you have a thirsty car for example. A party that supports only hybrids in town centres might get the support of a Prius driver as they see the personal benefits? All a bit of a stretch, probably.

I think if a study were done in the UK similar to the Forbes one in the USA, you would probably find trends with certain brands and specific models. But it might match similar voting trends on age and income for a large part.
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Thu 21 Jan 2021 18:22
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Alby Back
It's all a bit tenuous though isn't it? As mentioned upthread, I can regularly be seen in three very different vehicles, or indeed on my bike, or as a pedestrian. Perhaps unsurprisingly I don't take on a different personality or different political leanings commensurate with my method of propulsion.

I'm not sure tiny little clues like these can be trusted to reveal anything much.

I can though remember as a child in the 60s that any male with long hair was regarded as a "lout", any with a beard as a "lefty" and heaven forbid that somone didn't quite look the same skin tone as the indigenous population. Women really were treated as second class citizens and anyone with non-standard sexual preferences was given a tough time. Thankfully, I can't say I see as much evidence of those attitudes now, but assumptions still, get mostly misguidedly made, about people for the most trivial of reasons.

By the way, I have long hair, and a beard, and a Merc.

;-)
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Thu 21 Jan 2021 18:24
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Andrew-T
Back to cars I think the focus might be too much on causation as opposed to correlation.

Focus with a small 'f' .... :-)

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 20:33
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Metropolis.

Ha, "the Ford Focus is too much causation as opposed to correlation" - sounds like an essay question for philosophical petrol heads.

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 19:00
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Metropolis.
Alby I agree it is tenuous, I did say it is a stretch to say the cars change the drivers but mot impossible. There are bound to be patterns, but no stereotype is a certainty obviously.
More serious political concern: why does this forum discriminate against the iPhone apostrophe, somebody needs to start the ANP and get us equal rights with PCs.
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Thu 21 Jan 2021 22:56
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - sammy1

?????

I must admit that I am having great difficulty understanding what this thread is all about or is it just far too intellectual for me ?

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 23:16
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - Avant

Not at all, Sammy. Some people are valiantly trying to keep it motoring-related, as it was when it started, but there are some who for some unfathomable reason want to take it away from cars.

I won't close it, but if it gets non-motoring again it's going to the General section.

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 23:48
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - SLO76
Apologies Avant. I went off on one. I’m as much interested in politics as I am motoring. Will return to car related ramblings only.

Thinking of predicting the political leanings of people based on their cars. I’ve found that the wealthier people I know tend not to waste money on cars while my colleagues at work (bus drivers for most) are running about in expensive new metal via PCP’s they really can’t afford, often without even having made a start in buying a home. I know guys who’ve £400-£500 a month car payments but live in rented houses or their mothers basement. The days when a posh car signalled a wealthy and typically Conservative owner are long gone. It’s not possible to pigeonhole car owners in the UK but I’ve no idea how the US system functions.
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Fri 22 Jan 2021 01:40
Vehicles and Voting - warning contains politics! - edlithgow
my colleagues at work (bus drivers for most) are running about in expensive new metal via PCP’s they really can’t afford, often without even having made a start in buying a home.

Slightly related> For a few years around the turn of the century I drove (and more importantly, lived in) a double-axle Dodge Renault ex-BT workshop truck. This was mostly because of bad and expensive experience on the London rental market. Saved me a lot of money, but OTOH it probably stopped me making an effort to buy a place, which would have made me a lot more..

There probably was a political/lifestyle choice dimension though, because I felt I was “beating the system” and it was sort of “alternative”,

Margaret Thatcher and her fans had a hard-on against New Age Travellers at the time, so it felt good to pretend to be one, though I didn’t actually travel much, and I had a very well paid IT job in the City at the time so didn’t exactly fit the socioeconomic slot either.

Pretty much anything Margaret Thatcher was against I was for, and vice verse, with the exception of exhaust catalysts, which we were both against, and lean-burn engines, which we were both for.

Objectively though it rather sucked. As well as the no property thing, you had to sneak around all the time, and I was woken up a few times by the van being broken into, requiring defensive action. Got to be a bit of a pain after a while.

One curious thing: When discussing this with colleagues and acquiantances a common reaction, especially from women, was

Essex Girl “Ooh, I wouldnt stand for that if I caught you parking on my street. I’d be right on to the police.”

Me “Why is that. What harm would I be doing?”

Essex Girl "Well, Ah mean, you might be a pervert’

I don’t (and didn’t) get that. I might of course be a pervert, but its presumably a lot easier to be a practicing pervert behind the hedge and curtains of a detached house than it is parked up in a truck.

The price of non-conformity is the presumption of perversion?

(Maybe not always a bad thing with Essex Girls, of course. Allegedly).

Anyway, there you go.

If you want to be seen as a pervert, drive a truck.

Edited by edlithgow on 22/01/2021 at 01:51

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