Those here thinking that the Harris-Biden, ahem, I mean Biden-Harris preseidency will be superior to that of Trump will soon be in for a rude awakening.
We are already seeing the US Democrats and their friends in big tach and the media censoring and going after many on the Right side of the political aisle, not just the few nutbags who engaged in idiocy (but not an insurection or coup [if it was, it was the worst one ever]) last week.
Remember the old addage: Be careful what you wish for - you may get it.
You cannot be serious. 147 senators and representatives who supported the idea of rejecting the votes of the electoral college is hardly a few nutbags. Even Republicans are supporting the censure.
What censorship?
McConnell has said that attempting to overturn the result as Trump did was undemocratic. He should have said it a month ago. A President effectively inciting a mob to storm the legislative assembly?
It is shameful that they haven't put him in a straitjacket using the 25th amendment.
I have no reservations about wishing him gone. 80% of Trump voters still think the election was dodgy. Much harm has been done. The senior Republicans who enabled Trump are a disgrace.
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We are already seeing the US Democrats and their friends in big tach and the media censoring and going after many on the Right side of the political aisle, not just the few nutbags who engaged in idiocy (but not an insurection or coup [if it was, it was the worst one ever]) last week.
For pities sake. Trump is dangerous and has affiliation with all sorts of right wing organisations who want nothing more than to see the democratic process overruled.
As far as I am concerned anyone in the Republican Party who has not made it totally clear that Trump should put up, shut and go should be included with the "nutbags".
It beggars belief that some people still cannot see the obvious and continue to support Trump.
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We are already seeing the US Democrats and their friends in big tach and the media censoring and going after many on the Right side of the political aisle, not just the few nutbags who engaged in idiocy (but not an insurection or coup [if it was, it was the worst one ever]) last week.
For pities sake. Trump is dangerous and has affiliation with all sorts of right wing organisations who want nothing more than to see the democratic process overruled.
As far as I am concerned anyone in the Republican Party who has not made it totally clear that Trump should put up, shut and go should be included with the "nutbags".
It beggars belief that some people still cannot see the obvious and continue to support Trump.
Are you seriously saying that 75M US voters are nutjobs? If so, what does it say about people voting for his senile, handsy, crooked opponent? Or those pretending that individual is a sane, reasonble bloke, never mind the rest of the top of that party, who appear to think that 'unity' for the US public is doing what they want...or else. The last time that happened it was in 1930s Germany.
Many mainstream Republicans and conservatives are being deplatformed, silenced, cancelled as we speak. For example, milktoast journalist Andy Ngo is having his book cancelled because he reveals Antifa for what it is - with evidence (often video). Many Republican voters are genuinely angry that their serious concerns about the validity of the election are being silenced.
I would remind you that there was a congressional enquiry into 'Russian collusion' in the 2016 election - which found that there was none - inteference, yes, but on such a minute scale that it made no difference. And yet the MSm continue to say that election was bought by the Russians for Trump - so why aren't YouTube etc cancelling all those outlets and politicians' accounts? It's no different to this time in that respect.
I would point out that the premiers of both Germany and France are very much against what the Dems and big tech are doing at the moment, including to the US President.
I think that many people wanting Trump's head (and not proverbially) may wish to step back, calm down and try to delve below the headlines from the MSM to see what actually happened last week.
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I would point out that the premiers of both Germany and France are very much against what the Dems [...] are doing at the moment, including to the US President.
Sorry for butting in but can you please provide the slightest scrap of evidence to support the above?
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Those here thinking that the Harris-Biden, ahem, I mean Biden-Harris preseidency will be superior to that of Trump will soon be in for a rude awakening.
We are already seeing the US Democrats and their friends in big tach and the media censoring and going after many on the Right side of the political aisle, not just the few nutbags who engaged in idiocy (but not an insurection or coup [if it was, it was the worst one ever]) last week.
Remember the old addage: Be careful what you wish for - you may get it.
You cannot be serious. 147 senators and representatives who supported the idea of rejecting the votes of the electoral college is hardly a few nutbags. Even Republicans are supporting the censure.
What censorship?
McConnell has said that attempting to overturn the result as Trump did was undemocratic. He should have said it a month ago. A President effectively inciting a mob to storm the legislative assembly?
It is shameful that they haven't put him in a straitjacket using the 25th amendment.
I have no reservations about wishing him gone. 80% of Trump voters still think the election was dodgy. Much harm has been done. The senior Republicans who enabled Trump are a disgrace.
A pity you didn't actually bother to watch Trump's speech or read his tweets (because they were deleted by Twitter) - he said demonstrate peacefully and to go home. He wasn't inciting a mob.
I would also remind you of what Mrs Clinton did after her loss in 2016. And yet, not one peep from the MSM, big tech or those making the claims here about Trump.
Those Republicans 'supporting' censure are doing so because they fear 'being cancelled' or worse now that the Dems have full control of Congress and the Presidency. Many on the Dems side are calling for 'purges' of Trump supporters, some even for ANYONE who doesn't support the Dems or Democratic Socialists/Antifa. How very nice to invoke those words.
For a supposed dictator, Trump hasn't exactly done much to silence his opponents.
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Are you seriously saying that 75M US voters are nutjobs?
74,216,722 actually. Obviously not all of them are nutjobs, don't think I even suggested they were but the fact is 81,268,757 (7,052035 more) voted for Biden so that and the fact he took more electoral college votes etc etc all seem to suggest Trump lost but he has kept insisting he won producing no evidence to prove his claim.
Back in 2016 Trump received 2,868,686 less than Hillary Clinton yet still won, perhaps he believes that the winner should receive fewer votes.
Trump hasn't exactly done much to silence his opponents.
Possibly because its still a Democracy despite his best efforts.
And I have managed to type all that without once mentioning the MSM and other conspiracies.
Trump will go down in history as the worst ever president, there is not doubt about that in any sane persons mind.
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Are you seriously saying that 75M US voters are nutjobs?
74,216,722 actually. Obviously not all of them are nutjobs, don't think I even suggested they were but the fact is 81,268,757 (7,052035 more) voted for Biden so that and the fact he took more electoral college votes etc etc all seem to suggest Trump lost but he has kept insisting he won producing no evidence to prove his claim.
Back in 2016 Trump received 2,868,686 less than Hillary Clinton yet still won, perhaps he believes that the winner should receive fewer votes.
Read the US constitution and election law. People in very blue of red states who know they are still going to lose don't bother voting. And the vast majority of the largest of these states are blue states. It was only when the 'Democrats' lost in this way that they started to want a different system.
Trump hasn't exactly done much to silence his opponents.
Possibly because its still a Democracy despite his best efforts.
What 'best efforts'? Somehow, with Biden and the Dems in full control of Congress, I doubt if it'll be much of a democracy for much longer.
And I have managed to type all that without once mentioning the MSM and other conspiracies.
Given your inflamatory comments starting off the thread, it seems you only appear to be hearing one side of the story. Presumably you don't want to hear the other because anything from them is nutty. That's your right, but it's your mistake.
Trump will go down in history as the worst ever president, there is not doubt about that in any sane persons mind.
Remember that the Internet never forgets. If we're still all here in a year, come back to this thread and see if you'd like to revise that statement. Don't worry - I won't call for your head.
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Trump tried to ignore an election result.
No further enquiry into his integrity is necessary.
Trying to cheat by accusing the other side of cheating is beyond contempt.
As for 75m nutjobs...I'll agree on 60m, the 80% who apparently still think the democrats fixed the election.
It seemed never to have occurred to Trump that he had been elected President for all Americans, not just the simpletons who voted for him.
The only way not to accept that he is a thoroughly bad person is to excuse his behaviour on the basis that he is insane. Either way he's not President material.
What did you think of Obama?
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Wow. I think a lot of people have gone mad. And I'm not talking about the 75M Americans voting for Trump.
I suggest you watch Tim Pool's latest video about all this:
youtu.be/e0_bqqTMrsc
He's hardly a 'conservative' or right-wing nutjob.
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I don't believe any Country has regretted getting rid of fascists.
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A lot of Tim Pool's stuff IS right-wing, but maybe he's not a "nutjob".
He announced his support for Trump's re-election last August, which is a black mark in my book.
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Seems that most of the posters on her are in total agreement the man needs to go and not simply handover to Biden (only one possibly 2 have Trump sympathies). I would hope that the American people are able to see that he is a danger to democracy and the security of the country.
Recent polls (no doubt the usual culprit wall say they are left wing organisations) clearly indicate that the satisfaction rating of Trump has fallen after the riots so lets hope that transfers into the people in charge when they vote on impeachment.
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Seems that most of the posters on her are in total agreement the man needs to go and not simply handover to Biden (only one possibly 2 have Trump sympathies). I would hope that the American people are able to see that he is a danger to democracy and the security of the country.
I hardly think that less that 10 backroomers constitues most people, whether on this forum or generally. I'm not saying my opinion is the majority either, but then I'm not the one, IMHO, parroting mainstream media falsehoods without seemingly checking them first.
Recent polls (no doubt the usual culprit wall say they are left wing organisations) clearly indicate that the satisfaction rating of Trump has fallen after the riots so lets hope that transfers into the people in charge when they vote on impeachment.
The Polls I saw only showed a 2% drop.
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What on earth are you on EA?
So a few hosting services and SM sites who may or may not be publishers have finally decided to pull the plug on purveyors of violence like Parler and equally belated to flag up and challenge Trump's lies. That's not really censorship is it?
Where is the evidence that Joe Biden is any of senile, handsy and crooked? Listening to his public statements he sounds every inch sane, rational and measured. Compare with Trump's election night speech claiming victory when western states had barely finished casting votes never mind counted them. No real evidence of handsy. The video you linked to over this is blatantly doctored. Even if his son has crossed a line (unproven) there's no link to the President elect.
The events of 6 January were the culmination of multiple actions by Trump starting well before the election through his tweets about gathering on that day and culminating in his disgraceful rambling speech on the day. He did nothing to discourage the hot heads and even after they were rampaging in the Capitol he did not give an unequivocal instruction for them to 'cease and desist'. Never mind his sidekick Giuliani and Trial by Combat.
If there's real evidence that the election was tainted by fraud then why is it impossible to produce evidence. I note with wry amusement that Sidney Powell is being sued by vote machine maker Dominion over her allegations about its machines and Chavez.
Edited by Bromptonaut on 13/01/2021 at 09:42
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"If there's real evidence that the election was tainted by fraud then why is it impossible to produce evidence"
Much evidence was produced and ignored by whoever the authority is that is supposed to be overseeing the election.
This is one of a series of surveillance/security videos produced as evidence of fraud.
Ballot counters told to go home late at night, counting finished for the day, but some stayed behind and were videoed dragging suitcases full of votes out from under tables and counting them.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uanA4Yu2E5Q
Added to the evidence of electronic fiddling of vote counts which due to the mickey-mouse security of the voting system was extraordinarily easy to hack into. In addition to vote totals carried about in USB keys before being entered into the state totals.
That's why 17 million "nutcases" are rioting.
Edited by focussed on 13/01/2021 at 12:15
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"If there's real evidence that the election was tainted by fraud then why is it impossible to produce evidence"
Much evidence was produced and ignored by whoever the authority is that is supposed to be overseeing the election.
This is one of a series of surveillance/security videos produced as evidence of fraud.
Ballot counters told to go home late at night, counting finished for the day, but some stayed behind and were videoed dragging suitcases full of votes out from under tables and counting them.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uanA4Yu2E5Q
Added to the evidence of electronic fiddling of vote counts which due to the mickey-mouse security of the voting system was extraordinarily easy to hack into. In addition to vote totals carried about in USB keys before being entered into the state totals.
That's why 17 million "nutcases" are rioting.
Well done for posting this. Apparently some others here have never seen any of this because they get their 'news' from certain media outlets that support the Establishment Dems.
Well, I'm sure that the 'usual suspects' here will dismiss out of hand all the videos (which ARE NOT doctored) as lies, probably using either their powers of ESP (i.e. not having to see the videos themselves to know what's in them) or the "I see no ships" approach when the incriminating sections appear.
Sounds to me like many people have been locked in their homes a good few days too long and have tipped past 'stir crazy'.
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Well done for posting this. Apparently some others here have never seen any of this because they get their 'news' from certain media outlets that support the Establishment Dems.
Well, I'm sure that the 'usual suspects' here will dismiss out of hand all the videos (which ARE NOT doctored) as lies, probably using either their powers of ESP (i.e. not having to see the videos themselves to know what's in them) or the "I see no ships" approach when the incriminating sections appear.
Sounds to me like many people have been locked in their homes a good few days too long and have tipped past 'stir crazy'.
As Manatee says what it shows depends on where you start from. Is the black object a table or is it some sort of a trolley in which boxes of ballots are moved around. It needs much more context either side of the clip to demonstrate that the 'suitcases' (which look like wheeled ballot boxes to me) are anything other than sets of legitimate votes being processed.
If you took security camera film from a UK election and edited (but not doctored) it and than set your own narrative you could set a hare running here too.
Of course if you want to believe that it shows malfeasance and you've absorbed that message since Trump started laying the ground in the summer than you may well be one of 17 million rioting.
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Well done for posting this. Apparently some others here have never seen any of this because they get their 'news' from certain media outlets that support the Establishment Dems.
Well, I'm sure that the 'usual suspects' here will dismiss out of hand all the videos (which ARE NOT doctored) as lies, probably using either their powers of ESP (i.e. not having to see the videos themselves to know what's in them) or the "I see no ships" approach when the incriminating sections appear.
Sounds to me like many people have been locked in their homes a good few days too long and have tipped past 'stir crazy'.
As Manatee says what it shows depends on where you start from. Is the black object a table or is it some sort of a trolley in which boxes of ballots are moved around. It needs much more context either side of the clip to demonstrate that the 'suitcases' (which look like wheeled ballot boxes to me) are anything other than sets of legitimate votes being processed.
If you took security camera film from a UK election and edited (but not doctored) it and than set your own narrative you could set a hare running here too.
Of course if you want to believe that it shows malfeasance and you've absorbed that message since Trump started laying the ground in the summer than you may well be one of 17 million rioting.
Weasel words won't get you out of this one, miladdo. I haven't seen you refute one piece of evidence - with your own, thus far on this thread. Maybe you should ask Sir Kneels-a-lot Hindsight for a job as a spin doctor - you'd fit in very well there, I think.
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Weasel words won't get you out of this one, miladdo. I haven't seen you refute one piece of evidence - with your own, thus far on this thread. Maybe you should ask Sir Kneels-a-lot Hindsight for a job as a spin doctor - you'd fit in very well there, I think.
The point I'm making is that the film contains no evidence of anything. It shows no more than activity in the counting room. There's nothing to refute. No case to answer M'Lud.
If that's the best those alleging illegal activity can come up with then it's no surprise at all that the challenges failed.
Edited by Bromptonaut on 13/01/2021 at 19:37
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Weasel words won't get you out of this one, miladdo. I haven't seen you refute one piece of evidence - with your own, thus far on this thread. Maybe you should ask Sir Kneels-a-lot Hindsight for a job as a spin doctor - you'd fit in very well there, I think.
The point I'm making is that the film contains no evidence of anything. It shows no more than activity in the counting room. There's nothing to refute. No case to answer M'Lud.
If that's the best those alleging illegal activity can come up with then it's no surprise at all that the challenges failed.
More weasel words. You have not submitted ONE piece of concrete evidence to support your side's viewpoint AT ALL. Not one. Reports from news outlets that 'say' this or that happened and then don't show the ACTUAL video footage of it happening, or in the case of the voting fraud described, ignore it (one of the two approaches I forsaw you'd take) show how weak your arguments are.
The charges against Trump, if put before a REAL court with impartial memebers of a jury, would thorw it out as not guilty. Of course, in this case, politicians are the members, so it won't be, and he has a lot of enemies.
Why not have a drumhead trial, or use the type of trial used in medieval times to determine if women were witches?
I know you live for politics, but most people don't, but I felt compelled to respond to this thread because of its very nature. I don't want this website to go down the route of other (supposedly) motoring-related ones you appear to frequent that are now just partisan politico twitter-style echo chambers where motoring issues are a side show.
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More weasel words. You have not submitted ONE piece of concrete evidence to support your side's viewpoint AT ALL. Not one. Reports from news outlets that 'say' this or that happened and then don't show the ACTUAL video footage of it happening, or in the case of the voting fraud described, ignore it (one of the two approaches I forsaw you'd take) show how weak your arguments are.
The election was carried out in accordance with the laws and practices of the state, county etc in which the ballots were cast. It's not sufficient to claim some non specific illegality and then sit back while the state etc proves that there was not.
It's the same with those of us here watching from a distance. The side that believes the election was properly carried out has nothing to prove.
In other words, if somebody alleges that some malpractice took place it's for that party to put forward evidence. The Trump/Republican side have simply failed to meet that obligation. If they had then at least some of the cases would have got past first base. The film of the count simply does not show what the narrator, Jackie, asserts it does.
If your now reduced to asserting that the court system is biased against Trump and that somehow a jury would acquit then you need to stop digging.
I'm interested in politics and have been since observing election 70 as a 10yo. I don't live for it but I find the way in which the world's one time foremost democracy has been brought to the brink of failure by a malevolent narcissist both instructive and frightening.
What happened to checks and balances?
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What on earth are you on EA?
Not on whatever you appear to be from comments. And what happened to you telling people to play the ball, not the man?
So a few hosting services and SM sites who may or may not be publishers have finally decided to pull the plug on purveyors of violence like Parler and equally belated to flag up and challenge Trump's lies. That's not really censorship is it?
It's your opinion that they are lies. Many people, myself included, think otherwise. I'd call deleting anyone's accounts with an opposing opinion censorship, especially for a nation that in its first ammendment guarantees freedom of speech. The big tech firms hide behind Section 230.
Given you are unlikely to have ferquented Parler, all you are going on is what your own media outlets have told you. You may trust them, but they are known liars on many issues, including what Trump did and didn't say last week, and before.
I would also draw your attention to the fact that the big tech firms have all donated many $Ms to the Democrats in their election fundraising. For platforms purporting to be 'unbiased', that is very concerning indeed. If that had happened over here, there would be uproar.
Where is the evidence that Joe Biden is any of senile, handsy and crooked? Listening to his public statements he sounds every inch sane, rational and measured.
Joe Biden's documented mental health issues and 'gaffes' (and a bit the Dems covering it up/denying it, including Harris):
youtu.be/wH-y_w0O5Bw
youtu.be/qMbeWmSeZr0
youtu.be/316LOai3ni0
youtu.be/HPr28nAuaaQ
youtu.be/ADDrSvNyqEY
Not sure if the one of him walking off camera mumbling during one of his 'basement podcast Q&As' is in there but that exists, somewhere. Probably on one of The Daily Wire's podcasts from last year (I cannot remember which).
Bonus clip of him saying "If You Don't Vote for Me, 'You Ain't Black'"
youtu.be/uBQ4PAT1hTg
Compare with Trump's election night speech claiming victory when western states had barely finished casting votes never mind counted them. No real evidence of handsy.
Joe Biden being 'handsy' - to women and to young girls (the top two from NBC News and CBS, before he became the nominee, of course):
youtu.be/DAUOurZIVfI
youtu.be/V4PLSPvJ9BY
youtu.be/T18_OJKtC-Y
youtu.be/xSSMG0MaEnQ
What his VP pick, Kamala Harris has said about him:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUutymbDLI0
youtu.be/LwO35jaS87M
They essentially hate eachother, but she hates him in particular. I wonder what was offered in return for her being the VP pick, despite he coming practically last on the main bunch in the Presidential Nomination race. I certainly remember what Tulsi Gabbard said about her during one of the debates, which probably sealed her fate back then:
youtu.be/o1-CRrMDSLs
Many of the above are MSM sources - but cruicially those were made BEFORE he won the Dem nomination. Funny how things change.
Did you know that both Biden and Harris (Harris still does, Biden only backtracked after the polls went very negative on that support in the month before the election) support what Antifa and BLM have been doing, including:
Playing down what they were doing - that is rioting, looting, burning entire districts to the ground, completely ruining government buildings (not just throwing some papers on the floor and overturning a few book-cases), including Police Precinct HQ's;
Actively campaigning for them, including raising funds for those arrested/charged after the above;
Supporting the aims of defunding the Police (until it wasn't good PR) and allowing these anarchists and MArxists to take over entire city areas, leading to huge increases in lawlessness over many months.
Almost none of this reported on mainstream media outlets except Fox News in the US, or they were played down. Remember the 'reporter' outside the burning building with rioters and looters behind him, saying it was 'mainly peaceful protests'? It reminds me of that 'Police Squad' clip.
The video you linked to over this is blatantly doctored. Even if his son has crossed a line (unproven) there's no link to the President elect.
The ONLY video I previously linked to was of left-of centre (he isn't Right Wing, as others have flasely accused him of above) Tim Pool discussing the situation as regards last week, etc, and there were NO CLIPS of Biden in it. Exactly how can HIS OWN clip be 'doctored' - its from Tim's OWN CHANNEL.
Given that the media/big tech covered up the Hunter Biden investigation allegations (and 7% of voters said they would've voted for Trump rather than Biden had they known of them) to help Biden, I'd say that was pretty important.
Most of the allegations revolve around Joe Biden getting Hunter lucrative positions with Ukrainian and, more importantly, Chinese firms. No doubt when he gets into the Oval office, these investigations will be either shut down or suppressed/whitewashed. rather like Labour's 'investigation' into interal anti-semitisim by Baroness Chakrabati, which I recall a certain person here saying wasn't a whitewash, but now which the current Labour leader said was.
The events of 6 January were the culmination of multiple actions by Trump starting well before the election through his tweets about gathering on that day and culminating in his disgraceful rambling speech on the day. He did nothing to discourage the hot heads and even after they were rampaging in the Capitol he did not give an unequivocal instruction for them to 'cease and desist'. Never mind his sidekick Giuliani and Trial by Combat.
'Doing nothing to discourage hotheads' in NOT encouraging violence, 'coups' or 'insurrections', as the media would have it. In fact, if you had actually bothered to watch the entire footage, he said peacably protest OUTSIDE the building, then go home.
He put out two tweets to do the same, which were then both deleted by Twitter, then the media claimed he did nothing to discourage rioting.
I would say it's you and a few other agigators here who are stirring things up - naively or deliberately.
If there's real evidence that the election was tainted by fraud then why is it impossible to produce evidence. I note with wry amusement that Sidney Powell is being sued by vote machine maker Dominion over her allegations about its machines and Chavez.
I wasn't aware that being sued equals guilt. Or do you think, as someone previously involved in the legal profession for HMG that its guilty until proven innocent, but only for those deemed not on the side you are on? To me, an attitude like that is rather worrying.
You know damn well that the majority of the evidence has never even made it to court because the Dems control much of local/state judiciary and has been suppressed by procedural manouvres. Some people have been threatened. And yet the completely false 'Russian collusion' claims by the Dems made it all the way to the Senate, where they were summary debunked, one by one.
Funny how what's good for one side isn't for the other?
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It's your opinion that they are lies. Many people, myself included, think otherwise. I'd call deleting anyone's accounts with an opposing opinion censorship, especially for a nation that in its first ammendment guarantees freedom of speech. The big tech firms hide behind Section 230.
I'm not going to even try and deal with all of this in detail. Trump is a proven liar. It's not a matter of opinion; there are any number of respected journalists who've catalogued every whopper he's told since 2016 and before.
First amendment rights are about the right to speak freely without interference from the state. It has no bearing on big tech and whether private businesses decide that for reasons ranging from truth to toxicity of the Trump brand that they want nowt to do with him or his acolytes.
I've looked at Parler. It's a disgrace and seem to be another outfit crying out to be prosecuted for inciting violence.
None of those videos show in any sense whatsoever that Biden is any of the things you allege. A lot of the so called mishaps are nothing of the sort. Talking about punching for the right of women against violence might raise an ironic grin but it's nothing more. Clearly, since they were initially both vying for the nomination, Biden and Harris were out to knock spots off each other. An edited selection of their jousts and counter jousts don't go anywhere near to proving your case.
Neither do some pics of him at ceremonies and photo shoots show much in the way of the truly handsy behaviour like Trump's pussy grabbing. I've seen a woman at a legal conference embrace the then Lord Chancellor in the same way as Joe hugs those ladies - they may even have kissed on cheek. Old legal buddies I believe.
If I'm ever allowed to go to London again and meet former colleagues hugging and wholly non sexual kisses will be exchanged big time. Nobody would accuse me or any on my colleagues of being handsy with those ladies.
As for allegations about BLM and Antifa, neither of which are particularly organised organisations let's see some real proof.
Oh and I'm not saying Sidney Powell is guilty just that a large business has the confidence to sue the ass off her. The idea that the Dems control local or state judiciary is nonsense on stilts. So's the idea the Trump standing outside the Capitol was some kind of peacenik encouraging chanting, banner waving and the singing of protest songs.
Even if that was all he'd done it's a remarkable action for a President to do so in protest at process which is a major part of the post election routine as per the constitution.
Edited by Bromptonaut on 13/01/2021 at 19:29
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It's your opinion that they are lies. Many people, myself included, think otherwise. I'd call deleting anyone's accounts with an opposing opinion censorship, especially for a nation that in its first ammendment guarantees freedom of speech. The big tech firms hide behind Section 230.
I'm not going to even try and deal with all of this in detail. Trump is a proven liar. It's not a matter of opinion; there are any number of respected journalists who've catalogued every whopper he's told since 2016 and before.
First amendment rights are about the right to speak freely without interference from the state. It has no bearing on big tech and whether private businesses decide that for reasons ranging from truth to toxicity of the Trump brand that they want nowt to do with him or his acolytes.
I've looked at Parler. It's a disgrace and seem to be another outfit crying out to be prosecuted for inciting violence.
None of those videos show in any sense whatsoever that Biden is any of the things you allege. A lot of the so called mishaps are nothing of the sort. Talking about punching for the right of women against violence might raise an ironic grin but it's nothing more. Clearly, since they were initially both vying for the nomination, Biden and Harris were out to knock spots off each other. An edited selection of their jousts and counter jousts don't go anywhere near to proving your case.
Neither do some pics of him at ceremonies and photo shoots show much in the way of the truly handsy behaviour like Trump's pussy grabbing. I've seen a woman at a legal conference embrace the then Lord Chancellor in the same way as Joe hugs those ladies - they may even have kissed on cheek. Old legal buddies I believe.
If I'm ever allowed to go to London again and meet former colleagues hugging and wholly non sexual kisses will be exchanged big time. Nobody would accuse me or any on my colleagues of being handsy with those ladies.
As for allegations about BLM and Antifa, neither of which are particularly organised organisations let's see some real proof.
Oh and I'm not saying Sidney Powell is guilty just that a large business has the confidence to sue the ass off her. The idea that the Dems control local or state judiciary is nonsense on stilts. So's the idea the Trump standing outside the Capitol was some kind of peacenik encouraging chanting, banner waving and the singing of protest songs.
Even if that was all he'd done it's a remarkable action for a President to do so in protest at process which is a major part of the post election routine as per the constitution.
You're reaching, Brompt. You also try and deflect and have yet to prove me otherwise. No surprise, given previous form on that score. Whenever I prove what you and others were saying was rubbish and (worse still) false, you go quiet or deflect. You're the one always banging on about 'whataboutery' - take a leaf out of your own book.
This thread is going nowhere because one side won't even entertain the possibility of other viewpoints or, more critically, actual evidence that completely refutes their claims. Why? Because they of a different political point of view, which last time I checked, wasn't illegal. Or pehaps some would like it to be?
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A lot of Tim Pool's stuff IS right-wing, but maybe he's not a "nutjob".
He announced his support for Trump's re-election last August, which is a black mark in my book.
Tim Pool is a left-of-centre journalist. He voted for Obama in 2008, supported Bernie Sanders in his presidential bid in 2016 and did the same for both Andrew Yang and especially Tulsi Gabbard this time around - given small donations to both of the latter to help their campaigns, because he agreed with a good deal fo what they offered and because they aren't Establishment politicians.
Even though I personally don't agree with a a reasonable amount of Ms Gabbard's policies, I would have had no problems had she been the Dem nominee and won the presidential election (fairly, of course). She has strongly critcised her own side for what they've been doing to censor and supress their political opponents and the truth about Biden. She saw right through Harris and proved so during that clip I posted of her in the nominee debates.
Tim Pool reluctantly voted for Trump, not because he's now a Republican (nothing wrong with that in US politics), but because he knew what Biden and the Establishment Dems were trying to do and their policies/direction of travel.
He is certainly NOT 'right wing' - that is something you've only heard from the media, who like to portay anyone who does real journalism (as opposed to the activism or lazy, sensationalist journalism currently undertaken by most of the media) and digs up and exposes the realities of the world.
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EA
You must have a very sad life to have all that pointless nonsense at your finger tips.
Even Mad Donald would be unable to type such a tirade.
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EA
You must have a very sad life to have all that pointless nonsense at your finger tips.
Even Mad Donald would be unable to type such a tirade.
You mean you didn't even bother watching any of it. As I said, quite a bit comes from the type of news outlets you'd and Brompt would approve of: Dem-supporting ones from the US. Not really a surprise though, especially with the insults rather than a point-by-point rebuttal with evidence. It's very telling, and a regular tactic of the Left.
Rather like the other comment from another poster who falsely accused (as the hard Left rags do all the time) Tim Pool of being 'right wing'.
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EA
You must have a very sad life to have all that pointless nonsense at your finger tips.
Even Mad Donald would be unable to type such a tirade.
You mean you didn't even bother watching any of it.
Why should I waste my time watching evidence that has potentially been doctored to make the case for Trump.
If Trump had any real evidence of doctoring he and his followers would have surely have provided that to substantiate their case, fact is they haven't.
The available evidence (not the doctored stuff on the internet) has been reviewed by the states involved and no serious wrongdoings that would have affected the outcome have been found. Even the Republican authorities have stated that.
All along its been Trump and Trump alone that has stoked the fire until the climax last week. Its clear to other than the most blinkered people what the truth is but truth is not something that Trump thinks should affect the election. He believes he has won simply because he is not prepared to accept he could possibly loose.
He's out of the White House next week because he lost, good riddance. The sooner the Republicans distance themselves from him the better for the USA and the world.
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EA
You must have a very sad life to have all that pointless nonsense at your finger tips.
Even Mad Donald would be unable to type such a tirade.
You mean you didn't even bother watching any of it.
Why should I waste my time watching evidence that has potentially been doctored to make the case for Trump.
You don't because Brompt say it is - that's like believing the guardian becaus ethey say it is, without actually viewing evidence. You'd get disqualified from a jury for saying that, but on the postive side, you'd fit right in in the US Congress at the moment - where evidence will taking a back seat to ideology.
I was dilligent in searching for and collating evidence - and this goes for Brompt's response as well, but neither of you were bothered to view it or just dismissed it despite it obviously showing - in video as plain as day - the EXACT thing I alleged Biden has done, etc, etc.
Drumhead trial indeed. You already found Trump guilty because of what side of the political aisle he comes from and he isn't an Establishment politician, which scares you. In my experience, scared people often behave in a very irrational manner and make poor choices.
A period of reflection after getting out of the house and breathing in some fresh air is in order - not for me, but for you guys.
I'm used to living on my own and thus find things to do with my time (and why I'm not here poised to respond all the time - I do so all in one go to get it out of the way [rather like ripping off a plaster]), and thus lockdown hasn't taken its toll on me as much as it appears to have done for people used to being out and socialising a reasonable amount.
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You already found Trump guilty because of what side of the political aisle he comes from and he isn't an Establishment politician, which scares you.
Nothing to do with his political colour or the fact he is not an established politician, its his actions over the past 4 years or more.
I left the Labour Party because of the action of Tony Blair which proves I am not blindly following a leader to the edge of the cliff.
Trump must be silenced forever.
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"... a regular tactic of the Left. Rather like the other comment from another poster who falsely accused (as the hard Left rags do all the time) Tim Pool of being 'right wing'."
Perhaps you have been seduced by Pool. I have not, and I've spent some time reading his stuff and listening to/watching his videos.
Tim Pool is described as an amateur journalist or "citizen" journalist, which is presumably intended to suggest he is free from the perceived bias of established news sources.
He supported right-wing conspiracy theory explanations of the murder of Seth Rich. (2019)
Trump “liked” a tweet of Pool's expressing sympathy and support for Kyle Rittenhouse, who shot three protesters during civil unrest in Wisconsin. Trump's son (Donald jnr.) retweeted a statement by Pool describing how the case of Rittenhouse had convinced Pool to vote for Trump. (August 2020) I can't find any evidence that Pool was a "reluctant" Trump supporter.
Maga Uncensored, a group on FaceBook, promotes Pool as a poster-boy.
Example of anti-left material here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW1dTuq7YRA
Typical stuff: "Democrats Are LYING About Trump's Taxes, Push INSANE Theory That He's A National Security Threat" (Stitcher.com, hosting the Tim Pool Daily Show)
Typical style: presents right-wing talking points uncritically, while claiming to be politically in the centre. He fails to ask tough questions, gives an air of "authenticity" and has a desperately serious manner in his presentations.
Edited by FP on 14/01/2021 at 11:33
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I don't say that the Fulton County video is doctored, just that what it proves is entirely dependent on what you think it shows, and proving that what you think it shows is what happened. The authorities overseeing the election in Fulton County are republican controlled, and they say it has been debunked. Maybe they are more concerned with covering up their own errors, but I don't see how much further you can take that. Many of the judges who have dismissed the claims have been Republican appointees.
Censorship. I think I might have said this already, but free speech does not extend to trying to undermine a functional democracy with baseless allegations, inciting the mob not to accept the legitimate ruling of the elected assembly, or as we all know shouting "Fire!" in the proverbial crowded theatre.
I don't like de-platforming when it relates to legitimate opinions, however off message or unpopular they might be. However, if you were to write to or for my newspaper with demonstrable untruths I wouldn't print your letter or your article. Trump has tweeted almost nothing but falsehoods since the election. He has not been censored, he can say what he wants, he'll just have to find somewhere else to say it.
Amazon, by withdrawing hosting for Parler, has not prevented Parler operating. They can buy their own servers if they want, or Trump can buy some for them.
Tim Pool sounds like an intelligent person. He could do with being more succinct but much of what he says is reasonable. A lot more reasonable that Trump for a start. Some caution is needed in 'silencing' even seditious elements. The actions have actually been pretty mild and very little from the state. The Chinese would have had him reeducated by now, the Russians might have fed him some novichoc. More surprising actually is the action that hasn't been taken. What do you think should happen if you try to undermine elections in a functioning democracy?
You write about "MSM" as if it is monolithic. It isn't. To reject it all is insane IMO. Non-mainstream 'news' ranges from straight and unvarnished (rarely) to utterly bent and most of it exists not to provide truth but to get clicks and push a point of view, often an attention grabbing one (more clicks). If you insist on looking for news from such sources you necessarily have to choose from this range, and you will probably choose those sites that echo your beliefs. This is really the explanation for such wide belief in ludicrous conspiracy theories including the wholesale faking of votes. The one question that should strangle all these beliefs at birth, starting with the faking of the moon landings and including Covid's non-existence and Q anon's worldwide paedophile ring of which Joe Biden is the boss, is "How many people would have to know and keep quiet?"
Seriously, just try the BBC. And pray that the Conservatives fail to destroy it. Supplement that with a couple of proper newspapers on opposite ends of the spectrum, and Private Eye.
I have a FB friend ('paused' at the moment) who thinks 5G causes COVID, among other things. He mocks the "sheeple" for watching the BBC news while carefully constructing an echo chamber for his own beliefs. His guiding light is Vernon Coleman. He has gone so far now that I really think it's become a mental illness.
Sometimes, things are just what they appear to be. Trump appears to be deluded, corrupt, and dangerous to the feeble minded. I'll keep an open mind on that as far as I can but as a working hypothesis it's consistent with what I have seen since his 2016 campaign.
Edited by Manatee on 13/01/2021 at 15:24
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"I don't say that the Fulton County video is doctored, just that what it proves is entirely dependent on what you think it shows"
And -
"Sometimes, things are just what they appear to be"
1- How do you doctor a security surveillance video?
2 - What do you think it shows as hidden suitcases of paper votes are dragged out from under tables and then added to the vote totals - after the count has closed?
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1- How do you doctor a security surveillance video?
2 - What do you think it shows as hidden suitcases of paper votes are dragged out from under tables and then added to the vote totals - after the count has closed?
1. Google it. Not my field. I have no reason to think it's doctored, what do you think I said?
2. They weren't very well hidden were they? I have no idea what it shows other than people moving boxes in what I was told is vote count. What it means I don't know. It has been investigated and some Republican appointed officlals said it didn't show what the complainants alleged, as I understand it. You tell me what it shows and how you know.
What's your point?
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An alternative view:
www.wsbtv.com/news/politics/georgia-election-offic.../
EA, care to answer my question above?
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<not just the few nutbags who engaged in idiocy (but not an insurection or coup [if it was, it was the worst one ever]) last week.>
So how many deaths and injuries make it a successful coup then EA? Sorry to be so flippant, but I find your statement trying to trivialise what happened to be rather disingenuous. Would you feel the same way if it had been our Parliament buildings attacked in the same way?
Regarding the video (youtube.com/watch?v=uanA4Yu2E5Q) mentioned above referencing Georgia vote fraud and in particular Fulton County. The votes were counted and recounted a total of 3 times and were ratified by (amongst others) Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.
Those Trumpists who still claim fraud may like to view this youtube video posted by Georgia voting systems manager Gabriel Sterling who held a news conference to deliver a point-by-point rebuttal of false claims being spread about voter fraud (including the so-called extra votes added for Biden) in the November elections www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEYvOTvqlFs
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So how many deaths and injuries make it a successful coup then EA? Sorry to be so flippant, but I find your statement trying to trivialise what happened to be rather disingenuous. Would you feel the same way if it had been our Parliament buildings attacked in the same way?
I was NOT making light of the deaths - noting that at least one was a protestor killed (and now being investigated) by Police or other government employees. My FIRST comment here was to say that the people doing as they did were idiots and should be proescuted.
My comment about the 'coup attempt' was because some here and much of the mainstream media have framed the events of last week as a coup attempt or an 'insurrection' (they were NOT armed, BTW). AT NO POINT did ANYONE involved try to take over the government - protest loudly, yes, cause some mess (but FAR less than Antifa and BLM did before - but which has conveniently been missed by many here and the media) and a very small number of fatalities and injuries.
Perhaps you should look up the dictionary definitions of both 'coup' and 'insurrection'.
Besides, how is such framing helping to dampen down inflamed views? or wrongly impeaching the president of the US, who will be leaving office next week or so based on charges that are a LIE, as I have already proven (but many have seemed to have conveniently forgotten once I did).
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"... the mainstream media have framed the events of last week as a coup attempt or an 'insurrection' (they were NOT armed, BTW)."
Yes, they were. And brought improvised explosive devices.
"Alabama Man Charged With Possession of Eleven Molotov Cocktails Found Near Protest at U.S. Capitol" (US Justice website)
"D.C.’s Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) recovered and removed one pipe bomb from the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and another from the Republican National Committee (RNC), Chief Robert Contee told reporters. Police also found a cooler with Molotov cocktails in a vehicle that had a long gun in it on the Capitol grounds." (thehill.com)
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"... the mainstream media have framed the events of last week as a coup attempt or an 'insurrection' (they were NOT armed, BTW)."
Yes, they were. And brought improvised explosive devices.
"Alabama Man Charged With Possession of Eleven Molotov Cocktails Found Near Protest at U.S. Capitol" (US Justice website)
"D.C.’s Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) recovered and removed one pipe bomb from the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and another from the Republican National Committee (RNC), Chief Robert Contee told reporters. Police also found a cooler with Molotov cocktails in a vehicle that had a long gun in it on the Capitol grounds." (thehill.com)
I would remind you that the VAST MAJORITY of those involved were not armed (likely 99.99% -even those with flags just waved them). And that at least one - thus far - Antifa activist who tried to incite violence has been arrested.
Of course, the Antfia/BLM riote that caused over $2Bn of damage, burning entire blocks, ruining business and people's lives, and killing 30+ (and counting 0 they're still going on in Portland) and yet NOT ONE WORD from you and yours. The 'insurrection' was cleared up and back to normal, sans Pelosi's laptop - within a couple of hours or so. Wow. Exactly the same then.
More 'mostly peaceful', so that's fine according to left wing politicians and teh media outlets you appear to refer to. Just using your side's own criteria.
I don't recall you and the other here saying the same when BLM/Antifa macrched on OUR parliament and deeicrated the Cenotaph and the statue of Churchill., and who were only prevent ed from storing the HoP because our police wre better organised than the few Police (I wonder if that was done deliberately?) who were on duty to proect the Capitol building despite the 'threat'.
TheHill is hardly an objective news outlet. If you can only come up with two instances, then that hardly all.
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"they were NOT armed, BTW"
"the VAST MAJORITY of those involved were not armed"
- Make your mind up about what you're saying. It's intellectually dishonest to shift ground in the middle of an argument.
" If you can only come up with two instances, then that hardly all."
- For the sake of the patience of those reading this tread, I limited myself to two sources. There are many, many more, as you may know.
"I don't recall you and the other here saying the same when BLM/Antifa macrched on OUR parliament..."
- Whether we did or not is irrelevant to this argument. For the purpose of answering the point, I am happy to record my view that all politically motivated violence is unacceptable.
It is not reasonable to equate the civic disorder of last summer in the US, which was condemned many times by Biden and the Democrats, with the storming of the Capitol, fuelled by Trump.
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I don't recall you and the other here saying the same when BLM/Antifa macrched on OUR parliament and deeicrated the Cenotaph and the statue of Churchill.
So far as I recall there was comment on here at the time of the BLM protests in London. I don't know why you link Antifa, which even in the USA is not an organisation, to those events.
The Cenotaph was attacked and the damage done was condemned from all sides. Given it's status in relation to the war dead from 1914 on I accept that the Cenotaph can be subject to desecration. A statue of a former PM, however great his achievement from 1940-45, is not capable of desecration which requires blasphemy or sacred character. And, while accounts should take account of his time and upbringing, Winston Churchill WAS a racist (which was the annotation added to his statue).
I'd also point out that the figure of £2bn and deaths of 30+ are hard to verify and, in the case of deaths, those shot by Kyle Rittenhouse and other vigilantes cannot be laid at the door of BLM.
Edited by Bromptonaut on 14/01/2021 at 14:32
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I don't recall you and the other here saying the same when BLM/Antifa macrched on OUR parliament and deeicrated the Cenotaph and the statue of Churchill.
So far as I recall there was comment on here at the time of the BLM protests in London. I don't know why you link Antifa, which even in the USA is not an organisation, to those events.
The Cenotaph was attacked and the damage done was condemned from all sides. Given it's status in relation to the war dead from 1914 on I accept that the Cenotaph can be subject to desecration. A statue of a former PM, however great his achievement from 1940-45, is not capable of desecration which requires blasphemy or sacred character. And, while accounts should take account of his time and upbringing, Winston Churchill WAS a racist (which was the annotation added to his statue).
I'd also point out that the figure of £2bn and deaths of 30+ are hard to verify and, in the case of deaths, those shot by Kyle Rittenhouse and other vigilantes cannot be laid at the door of BLM.
More obfuscation and deflection. 'Hard to verify'? Jeez.
I've just seen a You Tube video from Tim Pool where he has effectively been banned (demonetised) from facebook for merely COVERING the events of last week.
youtu.be/_diG_7jQPMU
The new variant of the prose from Martin Niemöller:
First they came for the Conservatives
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Conservative
Then they came for the Centrists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Centrist
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
Good night all.
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An alternative view:
www.wsbtv.com/news/politics/georgia-election-offic.../
EA, care to answer my question above?
There were many articles saying that teh French and German leaders denounced the deplatforming of Trump - that was done after the Dem leadership and many of its congresspeople demanded.
Here's just one I searched for today (there is one from the Telegraph, but I'm sure you'll tell me you can't read it behind the paywall):
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55657417
It's not the specific one I wanted, but I'm not doing your job for you when I have better things to do with my day...unlike some here who appear to be poised and red-faced in anger over their keyboards all the time.
The Georgia official is hardly a bipartisan person, are they? BY LAW, election counts are supposed to be witnessed by both GoP and Dem officials, and, as has been shown, there are numerous clips of them being either told to 'go home' counting is finished for the day, or in the case of Detroit, being told to 'get out' because they just ARE republicans, with cheers from 'vote counters' who then board up the windows and don't allow the offcials back in.
I could keep going, given the wealth of evidence, as focussed says, but then it appears many on the other side don't want to see that evidence, rather like the biased judges and officials who SHOULD be hearing it.
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I could keep going, given the wealth of evidence, as focussed says, but then it appears many on the other side don't want to see that evidence, rather like the biased judges and officials who SHOULD be hearing it.
Have you ever considered that the judges have looked at the evidence and just dismissed it as it's nonsense?
You say people should make there own minds up yet is is very clear that you have mind your mind up and won't be swayed no matter what anyone else says - you believe what you want to hear which is why it's not worth having a discussion on here with you.
You would argue black is white if Tim Pool told you that it was ;-)
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That BBC article was about Twitter. You stated that the German and French governments were critical of the Dems. As suspected, you have no support but are not prepared to agree that you were wrong. Sound familiar?
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That BBC article was about Twitter. You stated that the German and French governments were critical of the Dems. As suspected, you have no support but are not prepared to agree that you were wrong. Sound familiar?
Nope. Nice try at gaslighting - maybe you've been getting lessons from someone. Read my post in its entirety - maybe you'll understand it afterwards.
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That BBC article was about Twitter. You stated that the German and French governments were critical of the Dems. As suspected, you have no support but are not prepared to agree that you were wrong. Sound familiar?
Nope. Nice try at gaslighting - maybe you've been getting lessons from someone. Read my post in its entirety - maybe you'll understand it afterwards.
"I would point out that the premiers of both Germany and France are very much against what the Dems and big tech are doing at the moment, including to the US President."
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"I would point out that the premiers of both Germany and France are very much against what the Dems and big tech are doing at the moment, including to the US President."
Frau Merkel has taken the point about the capacity of the tech companies to deny politicians the use of their platform. I'd draw inference that she's not too bothered about the Donald in particular but more the principle.
I don't think she's mentioned the Dems as they've no part in this outside the heads of conspiracy theories.
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I could keep going, given the wealth of evidence, as focussed says, but then it appears many on the other side don't want to see that evidence, rather like the biased judges and officials who SHOULD be hearing it.
That last paragraph takes the coconut.
Wealth of evidence? That Republican-appointed officials can't find?
It would take a massive conspiracy to suppress it, and then you wouldn't have heard of it anyway.
Biased judges? Including Republican appointees? I am relieved that they have more integrity than their sponsors, as indeed they should have.
The "stolen election" proposition is the attempt to steal the election isn't it?
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1- How do you doctor a security surveillance video?
2 - What do you think it shows as hidden suitcases of paper votes are dragged out from under tables and then added to the vote totals - after the count has closed?
1. Google it. Not my field. I have no reason to think it's doctored, what do you think I said?
2. They weren't very well hidden were they? I have no idea what it shows other than people moving boxes in what I was told is vote count. What it means I don't know. It has been investigated and some Republican appointed officlals said it didn't show what the complainants alleged, as I understand it. You tell me what it shows and how you know.
What's your point?
My point is the one you seem to be missing - that this election was not in any sense of the words right, correct, secure, or democratic.
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My point is the one you seem to be missing - that this election was not in any sense of the words right, correct, secure, or democratic.
There are undoubtedly defects in the American electoral system.
Different states and counties having their own laws and practices. Voting machines raise all sorts of issues from manipulation by the programmer to hanging chads. The obscene amount of money committed to the major parties and the extent to which favours are bought. The strict two party system and FPTP together with the electoral college lead to unrepresentative winners at any/every level.
But admitting those factors is very different to trying to pervert the entire system so that millions of votes are planted flipping the result from one of two candidates to the other. That would require a conspiracy on such a scale it would be bound to fail at its weakest link.
There's no credible evidence of such a plan.
Edited by Bromptonaut on 14/01/2021 at 14:43
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point is the one you seem to be missing - that this election was not in any sense of the words right, correct, secure, or democratic.
Yes I did miss it.
Despite dozens of legal applications, I don't think Giuliani et al managed even to establish that there was a case to answer did they? Obviously they should have called you as a witness. The evidence adduced by Trump himself is laughable. "we had the biggest rallies". "No President ever won Florida and Ohio and lost" (not actually true anyway).
Simplistically the obvious thing to do now would be to set up some sort of public inquiry that everybody could agree was objective and would establish the substantial probity or otherwise of the electoral system, and put in place such comprehensive procedures and auditable checks as are needed to convince everybody that the system is sound.
Sadly it's more complicated that that, in that the states control the election processes and their methods vary. Also, since the Republican starting point is that the result was the wrong one, they simply won't subscribe to any proposal.
You will probably discount the source, but the Washington Post is unequivocal in saying that the claims are baseless. Trump could presumably have sued for libel had he wanted to. You will find the story of the video here too.
www.washingtonpost.com/elections/interactive/2020/.../
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