Cmax - Hard start, low idle | Technical matters | Back Room Forum

Mon 14 Oct 2019 21:57

Cmax - Hard start, low idle - Chief77

So my better half has a Ford cmax 1.8 petrol on 57 plate. It was overdue a service so took it to our usual mechanic and asked him to give to do full service and check over as we want to maintain it well.

Around £700 later for numerous issues and we went to pick the car up. The mechanic said ...all sorted but it still has that little hiccup when its running so I might need it back...

I thought nothing of this and went over to the car.
My mrs loves that car and straight away she knew there was something wrong. It took two attempts to start and idled quite low but I gave reassurance and she gave it some revs and 5 minutes later we were home.

As we pulled up the car revs dropped and the engine cut out. The car now takes 3 or 4 long key turns to get going and idles low enough to cut out every time.

The car started first time every time before and idled just fine as well.

Its like we have got a different car back. Rang the mechanic, he said he was worried as it had been on diagnostic and nothing had shown up, he said the old oil was really thick and there wasn't much of it so the newer oil might have found a weakness. This could be a valve so might mean the top off the block or worst case a new engine.

Any suggestions of something less costly than a new engine would be greatly appreciated. I was hoping it could be a sensor or hose but have virtually no mechanical experience.

The mrs is not happy.

Apart from the obvious what should I do?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Mon 14 Oct 2019 22:29

Cmax - Hard start, low idle - John F

£700 pounds......which 'numerous issue' in particular accounted for most of this huge sum? Did it include a cambelt change - done badly? 'New oil might have found a weakness' is nonsense.

Edited by John F on 14/10/2019 at 22:31

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Mon 14 Oct 2019 23:17

Cmax - Hard start, low idle - Chief77

He told me a list of about 7 or 8 things that needed sorting. Apologies as I don't remember them
all.... I will get full details tomorrow.
Cambelt wasn't one of them as it has timing chain but it did need 2 new decent tyres, full service, 2 shock absorbers and some other bits to do with suspension... bushes, arms or rods ( sadly I had lost full attention by this time) tracking and alignment.
The car had been driving a little off and tyre pressure were consistent so I did assume a considerable bill to refresh the handling as it were. We had a car that ran fine but didn't transfer much from the road, it felt soft and slightly skittish in the wet. The car now feels good on wet roads, but it doesn’t want to turn over or stay running.
Mechanic has always been good, maybe slightly pricey but he's always had our cars running well, he justifies and evidences his work and has never charged excessively before, plus he always costs less than expected when things do go wrong.
I always thought new oil was better than old stuff and assumed the car would run better for it... I suspect what has really happened is that he has made an error somewhere and is trying to remove himself from responsibility.
we just need to know what could have happened to cause this significant change in the cars ability to run/idle.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Mon 14 Oct 2019 23:27

Cmax - Hard start, low idle - elekie&a/c doctor

Apart from changing engine oil ,filters and spark plugs ,there is very little to go wrong on these. The fact that it had very little oil in the engine is a bit of a worry ,as these are notorious for burning oil and burnt out inlet valves. I would ask the garage to do a compression test of the cylinders. Also ,is the battery ok?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Tue 15 Oct 2019 00:03

Cmax - Hard start, low idle - Chief77

Battery was new a few months back, turns over well but the engine now takes an age to catch. It always started first time. Although he said the oil was low and thick I assumed he meant on the dipstick... I usually check tyres, oil and washers every few weeks but it has been a bit longer since last checked. Oil top ups have been rarely needed and 100-200ml at absolute most. Last service was just over 2 years but less than 8000miles ago. This is the first time I’ve ever had a car come back from the garage in worse condition than when it went in!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Tue 15 Oct 2019 00:25

Cmax - Hard start, low idle - elekie&a/c doctor

Very strange .I would make sure nothing has come off or not been re-fitted correctly. I am thinking air intake pipe ,airflow sensor or throttle body connector.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 17 Oct 2019 19:32

Cmax - Hard start, low idle - Chief77

Thanks for your help. The mechanic has had the car back and now says its all associated with the timing chain. He said many things... tensioners, cylinder head, camshaft, a two man job, refitting cogs and that when a car hasn't had an oil for change for some time and then has work done ie full service, it can be a cause of failures relating to the timing chain.

Is this right?

All I really understood is that this is going to cost a lot. although he did say not to worry about money right now as he just wants to get the car back on the road. I still want to have faith in him, he has an excellent reputation and has never let us down before. It just feels like excuses are being made in addition to his reassurances.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 17 Oct 2019 19:47

Cmax - Hard start, low idle - elekie&a/c doctor

I would confirm with your mechanic that he has used the correct spec oil . 5-30 I believe .

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 18 Oct 2019 02:04

Cmax - Hard start, low idle - John F

The symptoms certainly point to a timing problem (hence my erroneous thought of cambelt a tooth out) but I would have thought if it was chain wear they would have developed gradually, not suddenly, although chain tensioner failure might be the cause of the sudden onset. How many miles has it done? Has it regularly had the correct oil? Please let us know the outcome.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 18 Oct 2019 08:42

Cmax - Hard start, low idle - Ian D

2 year old 8000 mile old oil should not be thick, and provided he has put in the correct 5w30 oil there should be no issues due to the oil change. Maybe he has changed spark plugs and cross threaded/bodged one, or maybe it is a coincidental timing issue, I doubt it though...Compression check, check of the hoses, plugs/coil pack check, maybe better diagnostics required

Edited by Ian D on 18/10/2019 at 08:44

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 18 Oct 2019 23:15

Cmax - Hard start, low idle - Chief77

Thank you for the thoughts, I think he’s as fed up as we are, he said he’s had a day and a half wasted on the car and that it’s just one of those things that happens.
There are 3 other garages on the industrial estate... all well respected and I know he’s spoken to most of the blokes about this so I have no doubt that his assurances of “every diagnostic under the sun” are true.
He has said the only thing left is the timing chain and he is expecting to get this done on Monday.
Thanks to all for your valuable input... I will keep you posted.
Daniel

Edited by Chief77 on 19/10/2019 at 00:07

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 19 Oct 2019 17:41

Cmax - Hard start, low idle - Andrew Irvine

I'm presuming this is the mazda engine as used in earlier models? if so I would get your mechanic to check the pipe from the pcv valve under the inlet manifold, these are prone to splitting and give the symptoms you describe, horrible job to replace.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Ask Honest John

Sell Your Car

Real MPG

Fuel Calculator