Na - Drinking and campervans

Honest John Back Room » Legal matters
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Wed 7 Aug 2019 23:11
Na - Drinking and campervans - Zippy123
If you have a caravan you could conceivably have a couple of pints and sleep it off until the next day.

Can you do the same in a camper van or would you still be drunk in charge?
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Wed 7 Aug 2019 23:29
Na - Drinking and campervans - Brit_in_Germany

Not automatically but you could be if there is a suspition that you will drive while still drunk. Fitting an alcolock immobiliser might get round this perhaps.

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Thu 8 Aug 2019 09:04
Na - Drinking and campervans - Cris_on_the_gas

The Police Officer must have reasonable grounds to suspect that you had intention to drive said motor vehicle. It is your responsibility to prove that you had no such intention.

A simple thing like putting up an awning or drawing curtains over the windscreen making the vehicle un-drivable should suffice.

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Thu 8 Aug 2019 23:45
Na - Drinking and campervans - focussed

I wonder how truck drivers with sleeper cabs in their trucks get around this?

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Fri 9 Aug 2019 00:14
Na - Drinking and campervans - Avant

Truck drivers have been driving the day before they sleep in their cabs, and will be driving the day after. In 99.9% of cases they value their jobs and won't have been drinking.

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Fri 9 Aug 2019 14:22
Na - Drinking and campervans - alan1302

Truck drivers have been driving the day before they sleep in their cabs, and will be driving the day after. In 99.9% of cases they value their jobs and won't have been drinking.

True, and also more likely the police expect a truck driver that's been working to be sleeping in the cab rather than expecting them to continue driving.

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Fri 9 Aug 2019 17:04
Na - Drinking and campervans - concrete

Interesting point. The motorhome can be configured to demonstrate you will not be driving. The drivers seat swivels around and sometimes a screen comes down to isolate the cab from the living quarters. If you have a pitch on a site you will be on private land anyway so the police would not be interested. If you are in a car park or public land then chances are you may be breaking the law by sleeping there anyway, so the police may give you a nudge. In that case if you declare that you are too inebriated to drive then that may open a can of worms as to contravening a local statute by not moving on, or drunk in charge. Quite a dilemma if the occasion ever arose. A situation best avoided methinks.

Cheers Concrete

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Fri 9 Aug 2019 18:15
Na - Drinking and campervans - Zippy123

If you have a pitch on a site you will be on private land anyway so the police would not be interested.

I am not so sure, didn't the law change to include driving offences on land that the public has access to, which would include camp sites? It certainly applies to caravan parks and I have witnessed arrests for drunk driving on a Park Resorts site.

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Sun 11 Aug 2019 14:51
Na - Drinking and campervans - concrete

If you have a pitch on a site you will be on private land anyway so the police would not be interested.

I am not so sure, didn't the law change to include driving offences on land that the public has access to, which would include camp sites? It certainly applies to caravan parks and I have witnessed arrests for drunk driving on a Park Resorts site.

I don't know what the law states regarding this. I do know every caravan/camping site we have pitched up on does not allow unrestricted access to the general public. There is often a road barrier which is coded and only permits access once you have paid and have a pitch. If you receive visitors the campsite have to be informed and visitors usually have to pay a fee to enter and park. I think logging visitors in and out has something to do with insurance and fire regulations. Therefore I think it safe to assume that sites are not freely open to the general public and are classed as private property.

Different if the police have followed you onto the site, but the OP was querying the possibility of being drunk in charge of a vehicle because you are inside it and have the keys. I repeat that the police would not be interested in anyone who is drunk and in their caravan or motorhome on a private site. I hope that clears the point up for you.

Being so on public land or road lay bye is simply being stupid and asking for trouble.

Cheers Concrete

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Sun 11 Aug 2019 19:48
Na - Drinking and campervans - RT

Caravan sites I use are generally open to any vehicle, only rarely have I needed to open/close a gate to access the site - I do use smaller sites, maybe large sites are different.

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Mon 12 Aug 2019 10:16
Na - Drinking and campervans - concrete

Caravan sites I use are generally open to any vehicle, only rarely have I needed to open/close a gate to access the site - I do use smaller sites, maybe large sites are different.

We too have used sites that are not as well policed as others. In general though it is in the interest of the site owner to keep an eye open for anyone simply wandering onto the site out of curiosity or worse. Apart from maybe missing out of fees I don't know how it affects their insurance liabilities. Nearly every site we have used the owners or wardens are quite visible as they go about their daily routine on site, they should immediately notice anything untoward. Exceptions to every rule though.

Cheers Concrete

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Mon 12 Aug 2019 11:47
Na - Drinking and campervans - Cris_on_the_gas

The Road Traffic Act 1988 applies in Public places. A Public place is defined as an area where the Public have access by payment or other means. For example a Pub or Supermarket Car Park is a Public place and a campsite is also. The fact that payment is made is not relevant.

Drink Driving is a contravention of s.4 of Road Traffic Act

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Sun 13 Oct 2019 23:31
Na - Drinking and campervans - HGV ~ P Valentine

ANY private land where the public would ordinarily have access is subject to the same laws as the main highway, such places that are private land where the public would ordinarily have access are such as

Supermarket car parks, garage fuelling areas, industrial estates, any public car park ( except those on mod land ), farms that allow visitors, and race circuits on open days.

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Sun 13 Oct 2019 23:26
Na - Drinking and campervans - HGV ~ P Valentine

If you drink drive on private land where the public would ordinarily have access you can get done for drinking and driving.

if

it id private land where the public have no access then you can do what you like. But if someone gets hurt you will still get done by the law for dangerous driving.

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Fri 9 Aug 2019 22:42
Na - Drinking and campervans - SLO76

Truck drivers have been driving the day before they sleep in their cabs, and will be driving the day after. In 99.9% of cases they value their jobs and won't have been drinking.

You should see the volume of empty lager and cider containers scattered around the road behind our local ASDA where truck drivers park up at night. I walk the dog up here most night and and it never ceases to amaze me how much these guys (not all of course) are drinking at night. Manky gits just turf the rubbish out the window afterwards too. No one else parks up there overnight so it’s clear who’s consuming it.

Edited by SLO76 on 09/08/2019 at 22:42

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Tue 13 Aug 2019 18:08
Na - Drinking and campervans - Middleman

A Public place is defined as an area where the Public have access by payment or other means.

It's not, as far as I know, actually defined anywhere in legislation. Case law has set precedents in certain circumstances which may be cited in the event of a dispute. However, if a charge was contested on the basis that the offence did not take place on "a road or other public place" it would be for a court (in this case a Magistrates' Court) to decide.

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Wed 14 Aug 2019 09:32
Na - Drinking and campervans - Cris_on_the_gas

A Public place is defined as an area where the Public have access by payment or other means.

It's not, as far as I know, actually defined anywhere in legislation. Case law has set precedents in certain circumstances which may be cited in the event of a dispute. However, if a charge was contested on the basis that the offence did not take place on "a road or other public place" it would be for a court (in this case a Magistrates' Court) to decide.

Yes it is a Public place is defined in s.33 of Criminal Justice Act 1972.

“Public place” includes any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise ”.

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Sun 13 Oct 2019 23:23
Na - Drinking and campervans - HGV ~ P Valentine

we take the keys out of the ignition and leave on the dashboard in clear view from the outside of the vehicle, also the sleeper cab is behind the seats so you cannot reach the ignition from there, but we can prove the vehicle has not moved from the tachograph.

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Wed 14 Aug 2019 16:12
Na - Drinking and campervans - Bromptonaut

The Police Officer must have reasonable grounds to suspect that you had intention to drive said motor vehicle. It is your responsibility to prove that you had no such intention.

A simple thing like putting up an awning or drawing curtains over the windscreen making the vehicle un-drivable should suffice.

I think this covers it.

If you're caught allegedly drunk (or drugged) in charge there is an assumption you intend to drive. It's for you to rebut that presumption. If you've got covers over windscreen and curtains drawn and are snoring in bed then I think the presumption of driving is rebutted. Probably same if you're sat up in the back with van set up for night time or under an awning in summer with a beer in front of you and radio on.

Whether a caravan site, with or without an entry barrier system, is private land to which the public has access (and therefore subject to traffic law) is pretty academic. The police are not likely to walk onto the site and start knocking on motorhome doors on off chance of finding a motorhome resident who blows 40 on the intoximeter.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 14/08/2019 at 16:13

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Wed 14 Aug 2019 16:58
Na - Drinking and campervans - Middleman

Yes it is a Public place is defined in s.33 of Criminal Justice Act 1972.

“Public place” includes any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise ”.

Thanks for that, Cris. The difficulty is that the Section of the 1972 Act which you quote simply modifies the definition of a Public Place for the purposes of the 1936 Public Order Act only. This is an obscure piece of legislation (not to be confused with the 1986 Act of the same name which covers Affray, Violent Disorder, etc.) which forbids the wearing of uniforms in connection with a “political object” and also outlaws the formation or membership of quasi-military organisations. The full text of Section 33 you quote reads thus:

33. Extension of definition of “public place” in Public Order Act 1936.

For the definition of “public place” in section 9(1) of the Public Order Act 1936 there shall be substituted—

“Public place” includes any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise ”.

But I think Bromptonaut has covered the issue in his post above.

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Wed 14 Aug 2019 18:56
Na - Drinking and campervans - T Lucas

Have been asked/told to move on with my camper in Spain a couple of times after settling down for a beer or glass of wine.

Police said drive,no problem,just drive!

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