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It is not allways speed that is the problem around schools, it is mostly the driver that is unable to manouevre properly, those that have large cars with possibly bad visibility and unable to see who is around them.
that is where the problem comes, several schools I pass during term time on roads only capable of three lanes, parking on each side of the road, between driveways, and centre lane that drivers try to get 2 cars through with no one giving way for anyone
parents and children who try to cross find it very hard to cross between these cars trying to park, but by hook or by crook they will park no matter who they hold up
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They can't or won't enforce 30 around here, let alone 20.
Before we moved to North Wales I had heard that the local traffic police were very hot on speeding, especially when committed by those accursed invaders from over the border. Judging by the complete absence of enforcement in this county apart from a handful of fixed cameras and a couple of high profile camera vans which you always find in the same places, police and council have abandoned motorists and pedestrians alike to their fate and washed their hands of any responsibility for road deaths and injuries.
Apart, that is, from some road humps installed on a nearby high street at great cost, and which are likely to be removed soon. Residents are up in arms because the humps damage their cars, impede progress and make loud noises when vehicles go over them.
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impede progress and make loud noises when vehicles go over them.
people buy large motors so they can speed over the humps, they forget they are there to protect pedestrians/slow drivers down
never giving it a thought that their speed is what is causing them to hit the humps, even small cars are doing the same thing-driving over the humps at great speed and clobering the front and rear of the motor?
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It never ceases to surprise just how uncaring and/or mechanically ignorant people are, nor how common sense has almost disappeared.
Our nearest supermarket is an Asda, it has about half a dozen speed humps on the approach road, those half moon rubber ones which are very hard on the vehicle, my suspension damping is adjustable inside and i have it set to soft during the winter anyway and it rides over these quite gently, but i still take it easy.
What i noticed last time i went in there, temperatures way below freezing, is that i was as usual holding other people up on the approach and exit and drivers coming the other way were driving as if the road was silky smooth their cars hitting each one with a severe jolt, this road alone must account for hundreds of broken springs and leaking or broken dampers plus other wear and tear over the course of a winter especially, do modern cars not come with variable throttles any more, i'm beginning to wonder.
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those half moon rubber ones which are very hard on the vehicle,
The only sensible kind of speed-hump is the cushion, which can be straddled at reasonable speed without doing much harm. I've always wondered what emergency vehicles are expected to do with full-width humps - ambulances and loaded fire appliances must love them.
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In a previous life I was a member of a resident's group campaigning for traffic calming measures in our local area.
After seemingly endless public meetings we got what we wanted, and for the first few weeks after the humps were laid our roads were much quieter. However, some folks, probably not residents, continued to drive as if the obstacles were not there. Great gouges appeared on the surfaces of the humps where sumps and exhaust pipes had been dragged and snagged due to drivers feeling more resentment at having to slow down than sympathy for their vehicles.
Evetntually it dawned on the majority of drivers that they could still use these roads if they slowed down a bit before the humps and drove like maniacs between them. Result: REV/ THUMP...REV/ THUMP...REV/ THUMP...etc etc.
Fifty grand of public money, and several weeks of disruption to our neighbourhood's roads and pavements for nothing.
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Same here, thousands spent on humps..several years later the humps are taken out and the road beautifully resurfaced....few weeks later the humps are reinstalled for thousands. Local council says it's nothing to do with them it's Hampshire CC. They fob you off when you complain. Accident figures pre and post? don't know 'police have figures' Rev/Thump/rev /thump is just perfect to descibe the effect.
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When the fire service or an ambulance has to slow down because of your stupid speed humps, and it cost the life of one of your family, will you still think its a good idea ??
Speed cameras are a much better idea, get caught 4 times and they are off the road.
And just so you know all the emergency services have approached gov to get them taken out, it b*****s up their equipment which they need to save lives. and as I mentioned where minutes cost lives slows them down too much, esp the fire service because they have a live load in the back, in the form of tons of water.
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those half moon rubber ones which are very hard on the vehicle,
The only sensible kind of speed-hump is the cushion, which can be straddled at reasonable speed without doing much harm. I've always wondered what emergency vehicles are expected to do with full-width humps - ambulances and loaded fire appliances must love them.
Buses, ambulances and fire trucks can straddle these without trouble, but if cars straddle them (as HJ repeatedly points out) the inner sides of the tyres are damaged by running over the edges. For cars, it is recommended to run one wheel over the flat top and the other in the gap between hump and kerb or other hump.
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Did my speed awareness course today and asked the presenters about 20mph effectiveness. They said data supported the effectiveness of them despite what the press are putting out. Very interesting.
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Did my speed awareness course today and asked the presenters about 20mph effectiveness. They said data supported the effectiveness of them despite what the press are putting out. Very interesting.
You dont need data to confirm what goes on, most drivers see it for themselves, every day!.
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They are flawed solutions in my opinion, this is all part of an agenda to slow the motorist to a crawl. Research agenda 21 which has been renamed to agenda 30. making car use as difficult and challenging as possible as a small part of this.
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They are flawed solutions in my opinion, this is all part of an agenda to slow the motorist to a crawl. Research agenda 21 which has been renamed to agenda 30. making car use as difficult and challenging as possible as a small part of this.
Great conspiracy theory. Being more rational, I suggest it is a well-intentioned attempt to reduce danger and congestion, but without anticipating many of the unexpected consequences ?
Edited by Andrew-T on 21/12/2017 at 09:30
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They are flawed solutions in my opinion, this is all part of an agenda to slow the motorist to a crawl. Research agenda 21 which has been renamed to agenda 30. making car use as difficult and challenging as possible as a small part of this.
I don't think I will bother researching that...can tell you speaking nonsense without research!
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Well if you are able to come to such a such a conclusion about something without conducting any form of research that really does sum up the level that we are operating at. Anything that does not match your level of conditioning cannot be true and must be 'nonsense'.
Try looking up the term: cognitive dissonance
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Try looking up the term: cognitive dissonance
That is a good example of a term which conveys nothing to anyone except those who have been on courses in social sciences or suchlike. It is pretty daft to suggest any agenda whose purpose is to 'slow motorists to a crawl'; almost everyone is a motorist some of the time, but at other times a pedestrian or a cyclist, so different needs must be balanced somehow. No doubt it looks like a conspiracy to some.
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Cognitive dissonance is a very valid term that really highlights the state that society has allowed itself to enter, society in general is misinformed typically due to the view of 'everything' only being what is covered by the media. It is growing quite clear to most people with a brain cell on active duty that is a coordinated and managed effort to slow down the motorist. Using climate change as a reason will also play a role in this.
Agenda 21 and later versions of the same thing cannot happen quickly and as such slowing people down as much as possible is the first small step within that respective element of what is planned in relation to car ownership and more importantly usage. Agenda 21 is a large subject and the transportation portion is simply one part of it.
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“Twenty’s Plenty” signs abound - away from the main roads in my home town in central Scotland. Housing estates, mostly built in the 1960’s. No other traffic calming measures and it all seems to work well, the streets are narrow and no-one with any sense would try to do 30mph.
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It is growing quite clear to most people with a brain cell on active duty that is a coordinated and managed effort to slow down the motorist.
This seems to imply that motorists should not be slowed down. Why is that a basic premise? The other implication is that anyone who thinks differently has few cells on active duty. As one still with quite a few active cells I resent that.
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Well if you are able to come to such a such a conclusion about something without conducting any form of research that really does sum up the level that we are operating at. Anything that does not match your level of conditioning cannot be true and must be 'nonsense'.
Try looking up the term: cognitive dissonance
No it's fine - I know what it means.
You just like a good conspracy no matter how daft it maybe.
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Not connected to the subject but do you know the true meaning of 'conspiracy'. It was a term created by the CIA back in the mid 1960's:
'a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.'
'the action of plotting or conspiring.'
Lets see where we are within the next 15 years or so with car ownership and the general freedom to use etc. Perhaps then the message may hit home about where this is all planning to lead.
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Not connected to the subject but do you know the true meaning of 'conspiracy'. It was a term created by the CIA back in the mid 1960's:
'a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.'
'the action of plotting or conspiring.'
Lets see where we are within the next 15 years or so with car ownership and the general freedom to use etc. Perhaps then the message may hit home about where this is all planning to lead.
The word is from the mid 14th centrury - certainly not the 1960's all invented by the CIA.
I look forward to hearing back from you in 15 years.
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It was a neutral word until then, the word that we associate today with the current pejorative connotation as interpreted by 'the mainstream' was started by the CIA in the 1960’s. This is confirmed by multiple sources.
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Whatever your opinion on speed limits if you are above the posted limit and cause an accident you have little if no defence.
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It was a neutral word until then, the word that we associate today with the current pejorative connotation as interpreted by 'the mainstream' was started by the CIA in the 1960’s. This is confirmed by multiple sources.
You are confusing the word conspiracy with the term 'conspiracy theory'
From the Wikipedia article you have clearly used as a source, "According to John Ayto, the phrase conspiracy theory was originally a neutral term and acquired a pejorative connotation only in the 1960s, with an implication that the theorist is paranoid."
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They straddle them by slowing down, even on the way to an emergemcy, is that a good idea in your opinion to slow down the emergency services, would you want them to slow down if they are needed at your house with your family trapped in an upstairs room. they cant speed because it would damage their equipment.
All the emregency services want them taken out, what does that tell you ?
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They straddle them by slowing down, even on the way to an emergemcy, is that a good idea in your opinion to slow down the emergency services, would you want them to slow down if they are needed at your house with your family trapped in an upstairs room. they cant speed because it would damage their equipment.
All the emregency services want them taken out, what does that tell you ?
Assuming you take out all the speed humps - how will you get drivers to slow down in the areas where they are?
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They straddle them by slowing down, even on the way to an emergemcy, is that a good idea in your opinion to slow down the emergency services, would you want them to slow down if they are needed at your house with your family trapped in an upstairs room. they cant speed because it would damage their equipment.
All the emregency services want them taken out, what does that tell you ?
Assuming you take out all the speed humps - how will you get drivers to slow down in the areas where they are?
You won`t if they are determined to get through quickly, and some buy motors specially to get over these humps quick. better to put speed cameras in that are not easily seen, ie hide them in street lamps or similar
hard luck if drivers moan, they are there for a reason!
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In portugal they have speed activated traffic lights, that appeared to work well. While we were on a visit to oz my son explained that the location of speed cameras are not known and in western Australia you get double points on your licence if caught speeding (applies to other offences as well) on a public/bank holiday ...which tends to focus the drivers at those busy times.......I will always remember when we went touring up the east coast of Oz, when we got onto Bruce highway, I put into our satnav our first destination and was instructed.......after 365 miles.....turn right.... Oh the memories.
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From my observation, the 'cushion' style humps have a width which is less than the distance between firetruck wheels, son in law (who is a fireman) says they don't need to slow at all for these. Ambulances also ar e minimally affected by 'cushion ' humps. Plateau humps, full road width are different, but I have heard that traffic cops in don't necessarily slow much for them.
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Road engineers will be well aware that motorists exceed the speed limit. The intention is to reduce the average speed of traffic, even if some motorists commit speeding offences.
Unfortunately speed cameras seem to have a very poor reputation - they are seen as a means of gaining revenue rather than reducing speed. This makes it politically next to impossible to install enough speed cameras to bring about total enforcement. So one alternative is speed bumps of whatever type - and yes, they have drawbacks too. Active policing to cover the same area would be very expensive - and again might be politically difficult: "Why aren't you catching burglars?"
The kinetic energy of a car is proportional to the square of its velocity. So a car at 20 mph has only about 45% of the KE of a car at 30 mph, and will cause proportionally less damage to whatever it hits - pedestrian, cyclist, wall, parked car. There is therefore good reason for slowing traffic where there's a heightened risk of collision. The problem lies in finding a method of doing so that is politically acceptable and economically possible. I would guess that many quite clever people have been working on this - but failed as yet to find a better solution.
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Road engineers will be well aware that motorists exceed the speed limit.
They also need to be aware that pedestrians are very often distracted from whats going on in the road, so walking straight in front of/into the side of a motor is a more regular occurance now than it ever was
so its not all the drivers fault accidents happen, though if children and teenagers are being taught the dangers of using mobile phones while walking, there not doing a very good job..but then adults are no better either!
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I don't know how much of a road engineer's remit includes the behaviour of other road users - and of the drivers themselves. The purpose may be to limit the speed of vehicles to 20mph, but the shape of the humps may be such that they can only genuinely be nogotiated (without cumulative damage) to about 12mph.
So besides this cumulative damage, there is annoyance to local residents caused by cyclic accelerations, plus the nuisance factor of parked vehicles sometimes making it impossible to straddle cushions in the manner intended. All in all, they are a very mixed blessing, and only a very partial cure.
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