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I suppose we could use one because we live at the top of a steep Close, the surface and gradient of which does make it a bit treacherous in winter.
However, is that good enough reason to buy a more specialist vehicle, the features of which would be largely redundant for the other 95 per cent of my driving time? Not too sure.
Possibly expanding the discussion into areas not envisaged by the OP, but I don't feel that I need to impose my presence on other road users, and compensate for a lack of driving ability by using my great big truck to oblige them to give me more room.
Sorry, but I do believe that some owners of larger cars are motivated in that way.
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Sorry, but I do believe that some owners of larger cars are motivated in that way.
There's no doubt about the numbers driving badly - across all types/brands/models of vehicles - stereotyping doesn't work.
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Sorry, but I do believe that some owners of larger cars are motivated in that way.
There's no doubt about the numbers driving badly - across all types/brands/models of vehicles - stereotyping doesn't work.
Nevertheless, where we used to live on the Wirral there seemed to be a disproportionate number of 4x4 drivers who could barely see over the steering wheels of their vast "shopping buses", and who tended to opt for driving down the centre of the road to save the inconvenience of working out who had right of way around parked vehicles.
Where we are now there's a little more justification for buying these things, given that there are so many farms, rural and semi rural properties in the area.
Edited by argybargy on 12/12/2017 at 17:14
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As a big SUV driver, I don't see them worse than any other car type's driver - if I meet a 2wd car in a narrow lane I expect them to slow down and get as close to the verge as possible, I'll slow down and put nearside wheels off the road onto the verge to give us both room to get past - surprising how many don't slow down and stick to the middle, expecting the SUV to avoid them by going completely off-road.
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A standard family car is clearly going to cope less well with a ditch, so if you're driving an SUV and you're able to move over onto dodgy ground without getting stuck, it may be better for you to do so to allow traffic to progress. However, as a driver of an "ordinary" car, I certainly won't make the assumption that you would.
Generally speaking, giving way to large vehicles makes absolute sense because they are less manoeuvrable. However, if someone comes barrelling down the middle of the road without recourse to any obvious considerations that decide right of way (such as position/ proximity of passing places) in the clear belief that anything smaller than a Sherman tank will get out of the way, then, childish as it may sound, I might be more likely to hold my ground and wait for one of us to make a decision.
Edited by argybargy on 13/12/2017 at 11:43
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During the beekeeping season March- October, I travel weekly along a single track road with passing places.. about 6 miles with lots of hills, lots of corners and some places where one slide and you are in a 2 meter ditch..
Ideal country for 4x4s ? well no because :
1. the bigger ones are too wide to get past another car /tractor/horse .
2. the newer ones are driven by people who refuse to go on the verge as they might get stuck or cover their car in mud.
So the only 4x4s on that road are the occasional farming Landrover.
I have never got stuck on that road despite mud , sheet ice and snow...2wd Jazz with summer tyres copes with most except snow>10cms ...
Real commercial beekeepers don't drive 4x4s: they drive 4x4 pickups so they can carry lots of beehives and equipment...One uses some specialised Austrian army kit.. for really out of the way boggy parts of Scotland..
I have thought of a Forrester but not the diesels but turning circles and parking in MSCPs don't appeal..
Edited by madf on 12/12/2017 at 11:22
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4x4's are usefull for going over speed humps.
The bigger the 4x4 the more chance of middling said hump.
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With a 4x4 you can get stuck further away from help!
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Back in the 1970s we were living in "up-country" Kenya - 45 miles of mud from the nearest tarmac and no AA / RAC rescue services (or phones for that matter). I used to drive an ancient VW Variant (a Beetle estate car fo the uninitiated) - 2WD but engine mounted over the driven rear axle.
One wet season (torrential rain for a month) we were visited by American friends driving a Land Cruiser, winches front & rear - looked capable of getting through anything. I needed to get into "town" and as logging trucks had totally chewed up the mud into deep ruts our friend suggested he follow me in his LC ready to winch me through the impassable sections.
I had already developed a technique of driving in mud (build momentum to the maximum safe speed then point in the direction I hoped to emerge from the worst of the ruts) ... I got through the entire 45 miles without getting stuck ("flew" over the ridges of the ruts as I was in a much lighter vehicle) while the LC had to be winched through again & again.
We got into town - and the American promptly bought the VW Variant from me ( I replaced it with an old Volvo 145)
So - why own a 4x4 ??
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"So - why own a 4x4 ??" To pull a horse trailer across a muddy field.
I've not needed to do this for a while but it's cheaper to keep the car and run it until it falls over! Also, some 4x4s seem to be built more robustly - you certainly see some old ones still on the road.
Edited by kerbed enthusiasm on 12/12/2017 at 20:18
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In 2017 Britain, owning a large 4x4 style vehicle allows the discerning owner to have an elevated position looking down on the other serfs, sorry I mean motorists. It is something that seems to have become a status symbol for for some it would seem, not all for sure but a number of people from my observations see it is a status symbol.
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In 2017 Britain, owning a large 4x4 style vehicle allows the discerning owner to have an elevated position looking down on the other serfs, sorry I mean motorists. It is something that seems to have become a status symbol for for some it would seem, not all for sure but a number of people from my observations see it is a status symbol.
That's exactly why so many soft-roaders and CUV/crossovers are sold - so that drivers in their Ford Ecosport or Vauxhall Mokka can look dow with distain on all those driving expensive BMW or Mercedes-Benz saloons - who now have their own SUV ranges.
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Not sure a Mokka or eco sport can be classed as a status symbol!
Sitting higher up is a more relaxing way of driving.
You can see more of the traffic in front and over hedges too.
Also you tend to be slightly above all the spray in the wet.
However I do look at the new Range Rovers and think ‘does anyone really need a car that big? Still only has 5 seats and average sized boot!
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Not sure a Mokka or eco sport can be classed as a status symbol! Sitting higher up is a more relaxing way of driving. You can see more of the traffic in front and over hedges too. Also you tend to be slightly above all the spray in the wet. However I do look at the new Range Rovers and think ‘does anyone really need a car that big? Still only has 5 seats and average sized boot!
That was my point, they aren't pretentious cars.
"need" is not the only reason to buy a car - and it's not really for others to judge - does anyone "need" a Bentley Bentayga or Lamborghini Urus, no of course not but it's their choice.
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Need is the wrong word, range rovers (and others) are really
quite special to drive, lovely plush captains chair, oodles of power
and effortless steering.
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The vast majority of drivers and road conditions in the UK cannot really justify a 4x4 vehicle. They are there specifically for certain use, such as towing and driving on unmade surfaces. Last time I looked Sainsburys had tarmacced their car parks!! I worked in construction all over the country, summer and winter. The last 15 years mostly in Scotland. Despite some severe winter conditions I always managed very well in my front wheel drive vehicles. Most places that require access either clear the road or treat the surface. Nearly everywhere is accessible with care. If you live on a farm with difficult access then a 4x4 is justified. Horses for courses. Status symbols apart it is still a free country and we can buy what we like within reason.
Cheers Concrete
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The vast majority of drivers and road conditions in the UK cannot really justify a 4x4 vehicle. They are there specifically for certain use, such as towing and driving on unmade surfaces. Last time I looked Sainsburys had tarmacced their car parks!! I worked in construction all over the country, summer and winter. The last 15 years mostly in Scotland. Despite some severe winter conditions I always managed very well in my front wheel drive vehicles. Most places that require access either clear the road or treat the surface. Nearly everywhere is accessible with care. If you live on a farm with difficult access then a 4x4 is justified. Horses for courses. Status symbols apart it is still a free country and we can buy what we like within reason.
Cheers Concrete
You need to try driving a 4wd road car, Subaru or Audi Quattro - you don't need to go off-road the enjoy/benefit from 4wd.
And then there's soft-roaders .....
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The vast majority of drivers and road conditions in the UK cannot really justify a 4x4 vehicle.
I don't need to.
I don't need to justify having a 2 seater as a toy either.
In both cases though, I can justify them. My justification is that I chose how to spend my money and handed over the requisite amounts to buy them.
How do people justify Sky TV? Starbucks coffee? Big gardens?
The whole premise of this thread is ridiculous.
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RT, I have driven plenty of 4x4 vehicles. Just don't need one for what I do. No criticism intended.
Manatee, if you read my contribution you would realise I AGREE with you. Spend your money as you wish to. Again no criticism intended.
But surely on the grounds of common sense a 4x4, which is usually a large SUV or similar is not usually needed for the vast majority of everyday motoring. I assert that most people still buy a vehicle for their particular use. If you want to have a 2 seater sports car, a cabriolet or anything else , then feel free.
Cheers Concrete
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Manatee, if you read my contribution you would realise I AGREE with you. Spend your money as you wish to. Again no criticism intended.
But surely on the grounds of common sense a 4x4, which is usually a large SUV or similar is not usually needed for the vast majority of everyday motoring. I assert that most people still buy a vehicle for their particular use. If you want to have a 2 seater sports car, a cabriolet or anything else , then feel free.
Yes I had spotted your final comment Concrete. No offence intended by me either.
I don't know about most people buying for their particular use. I'm being slightly disingenuous, as I struggle myself to understand why some people want (let alone need) 300bhp and more in a family hatchback. But that's people for you.
Were money no object, I would probably have a Range Rover. What stops me is purchase cost/running cost/reliability.
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I take your points.
Nothing wrong with opulence, I too have a sports 3.0l coupe just for weekends.
I’m not judging the folk that drive them.
I agree they are a fantastic drive, but do they really need to be so big that they dont fit into standard parking space?
Surely they could be 6 inches narrower and 12inches shorter and still give the same experience to drive.
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The vast majority of drivers and road conditions in the UK cannot really justify a 4x4 vehicle.
I don't need to.
I don't need to justify having a 2 seater as a toy either.
In both cases though, I can justify them. My justification is that I chose how to spend my money and handed over the requisite amounts to buy them.
How do people justify Sky TV? Starbucks coffee? Big gardens?
The whole premise of this thread is ridiculous.
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all sounding a little soviet!
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That's the joy of being a free man. I don't have to justify owning a 4x4 with All season tyres to you or anyone.
I live outside the M25 metro London bubble and these last few days I've been glad of having it. I do 75 miles a day and even in the Ice and snow had total confidence in my vehicle of choice.
If I am to be dictated to in terms of vehicle choice then you dictators can supply and pay for my transport then.
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Given modern motoring conditions in the UK:- Potholes everywhere, "road furniture" surrounding every junction and roundabout blocking your view, speedhumps, badly kept hedges and verges blocking view at junctions - why wouldn't you want an SUV type car? The generally higher seating position, taller profile tyres and longer travel/more robust suspension is just the ticket.
I wouldn't go back to a normal type car now - other than perhaps as a second plaything.
Four wheel drive isn't that important, it's all about the tyres - I've run Mud&Snow marked tyres on any car I've owned for over ten years now and have never ran into issues in any conditions. Ditto for SHMBO's cars. I spent the last few days hunting out the most slippery and treacherous roads I could find in the area to see if they provided a challenge to either car - not a merest hint of a problem in either car, a Lexus RX400h on General Grabber AT3s and a Suzuki SX4 (FWD) on Firestone Multiseasons, conditions ranged from fresh snow to compacted snow/ice and everything in between - saw plenty of stuck/crashed/struggling cars.
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Some appear to be getting a little defensive about this thread. From what I have read maybe the word 'justify' has been the wrong choice. No one has to justify their purchase of any vehicle to anyone else. They do however have to justify it to themselves or worse still SWMBO!! Buy what ever vehicle you wish, it is your hard eraned cash to spend as you or SWMBO see fit.
If money were no object, then like Manatee I would probably drive something different, but at present I can't 'justify' it! There's that word again!!
Some posters have given their reasons for purchasing vehicles ranging from sports cars to 4x4. Good clear reasons that means they effected a good choice for them. Brilliant, that is what life should be about.
Now where did I put that Trabant brochure?
Cheers Concrete
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Some appear to be getting a little defensive about this thread. From what I have read maybe the word 'justify' has been the wrong choice. No one has to justify their purchase of any vehicle to anyone else. They do however have to justify it to themselves or worse still SWMBO!! Buy what ever vehicle you wish, it is your hard eraned cash to spend as you or SWMBO see fit.
If money were no object, then like Manatee I would probably drive something different, but at present I can't 'justify' it! There's that word again!!
Some posters have given their reasons for purchasing vehicles ranging from sports cars to 4x4. Good clear reasons that means they effected a good choice for them. Brilliant, that is what life should be about.
Now where did I put that Trabant brochure?
Cheers Concrete
Of course, you're right, cars are a means to an end - we fool ourselves into "needing" when actually it's "want" not "need" - I don't actually need a car at the moment - I can walk to work and use the other half's motor at the weekend, doesn't stop me browsing autotrader now and again - I'm getting the JLR bug again - I miss my Range Rover - regardless of all the potential reliability woes that can come hand in hand with one.
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