Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

I'm posting this here as I hope to reach a wider audience than the 'Classic' fans as many people have experience with the vintage, post vintage, veteran, Edwardian vehicles etc..

I'm concerned about these old cars coming on to the road without any kind of compulsory safety inspection. I realise that modern emissions criteria and brake efficiency tests can't be applied to older vehicles.

A major question is what construction and usage regs will apply? I recall older cars having no or one brake lights from new and only one headlight opeating on dip. Many people had to uprate the lighting and added indicator systems to make cars legal and easier to integrate with modern traffic.

Will the lack of MOTs permit vehicles to be returned to absolutely original specification and beused without fear of commiting an offence?

I ask this because I saw an HWM/HRG, I think, with only one central front light the other day.

Edited by Glaikit Wee Scunner {P} on 15/11/2017 at 16:21

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - RT

AFAIK vehicles have only had to comply with C&U Regs in force when new

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - badbusdriver

Well there are a couple of points which, as far as i am concerned, means you should not really be worried about this.

1, People who own and run classic cars generally look after them very well indeed, and while they do not HAVE to be MOT'd, in my experience, most maintain them to at least a standard that they would pass. And just to point out, although you don't have to MOT your classic, you can.

2, The people who own these cars generally only use them in nice weather, so it is very unlikely you will find a vehicle of that age on the road in dark rainy winter nights.

3, Yes, some very old cars only had brakes on the rear wheels (often these would have some kind of transmision brake aswell), but due to the age of these cars, these are highly unlikely to be out on the road on anything other than an organised club run.

For the record, my uncle has a morris 8 from, i think, the late 30's or early 40's. It's maximum comfortable cruising speed would be about 40mph!

Frankly, i am much more concerned about the muppets driving enormous SUV's with only a small percentage of their attention on driving (the rest being on their smart phone).

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - madf

I ran a 1946 Rover 16 for 4 years with only semaphore indicators - passed MOTs as they were legal when built.

If you want cars on the road to conform to modern sspecifications, there would be NO cars on the road older than 5 years.. see Euro 5/6 diesels as an example..

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - focussed

The French system is that a 30 + year old vehicle can be registered as a "vehicle de collection" and has to have a technical inspection every 5 years,as opposed to every 2 years normally, but if if it first registered before 1960 no regular inspection is necessary.

Motorcycles don't have to have any technical inspection at all in France - new or old!

Edited by focussed on 15/11/2017 at 22:13

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - Big John

A major question is what construction and usage regs will apply? I recall older cars having no or one brake lights from new and only one headlight opeating on dip. Many people had to uprate the lighting and added indicator systems to make cars legal and easier to integrate with modern traffic.

Will the lack of MOTs permit vehicles to be returned to absolutely original specification and beused without fear of commiting an offence?

I'm not sure the need to upgrade is correct. I have some friends that have a 1923 Morris Bullnose which has no brake lights , indicators(other than arms), no front brakes, no shock absorbers etc.. . Even though it doesn't need it they still have it MOT'd, although if taken to an unfmiliar MOT centre the brake test was - er interesting

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - Terry W

It is the owners of 15-20 year old cars who are more likely to be driving inadequately maintained potentially dangerous cars. Their choice is probably driven by financial cost. They have the performance to be truly dangerous but any maintenance is likely to be minimal.

The owner of a 40 year old + classic probably does minimal miles, has the funds to maintain basic systems in good condition, and runs it as a good weather 2nd car.

Something of a generality I know!

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - madf

"It is the owners of 15-20 year old cars who are more likely to be driving inadequately maintained potentially dangerous cars"

I see more bald tyres on 3-4 year old cars where the owners are unused to spending any money on anything and are either ignorant or could not give a flying fig about maintenance..

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

Thanks for your opinions and anecdotal information.

Two of my friends have had damage done to spoked wheels while the MOT station tried to get old cars through a modern MOT.

I'd say that most old cars have been updated in some way, from my visual judging at our car event. It was rare to see a car with minimal lighting or no lighting. Most of the owners I knew used the cars for rallies in UK or abroad.

I agree that you should not have to update an old vehicle to modern specifications. But I have seen oddities like a claimed 1920s Bugatti which was actually built from scratch in South America in the 1970s iirc. What rules reply to that? I guess SVA would be a start.

But is it a fact that cars can be returned to absolutely original specifications without lights and front brakes even, if they wish? How can the UK guardians of law and order 'know' what is acceptable or indeed original? Or has that responsibility been removed from them?

The MOT regs refer to a single stop lamp being needed for pre 1971 vehicles, and very specific rules about the performance of them.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/12/made

In the event of a fatal accident involving a non MOT vehicle, I fear that an expensive technical analysis will be required as to its legality.

Edited by Glaikit Wee Scunner {P} on 17/11/2017 at 12:16

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - Engineer Andy

I think there is something to be said for keeping MOTs for ALL vehicles, or, dependent upon the age and features/performance (not just speed, braking performance, handling, tyres that have to be used) of the vehicle, though it may be worth doing the following, including as others have suggested:

Having a cap on the annual mileage groups (to be determined as explained above) of older cars, and perhaps the times of day, type of road (they would have to be capable of travelling at the maximum speed of that road for extended periods safely [TBA]) or even days of the week/road conditions the can be driven in. As many have said, most 'classic' cars tend to be very well-maintained (if driven) 'show' cars and mostly taken out on the road on weekends/and or in good weather.

A 'licence' for such cars, similar to driver's licences, could more formalise this, including temporary ones when travelling to a show or specialist repairer, except for use on motorways (e.g. for really old cars not capable of safely travelling on them for extended periods at high speed).

I think that the 'rolling' period that the government is now using to designate a car as 'classic' and not needing to pay VED should only be valid IF the owner can prove they do less than X miles per year; the same would go for any reduction in the frequency of MOTs. there is a significant difference between a pristine old car being used once a month at weekends and someone barely maintaining an old car as a day-to-day car because they can't afford to properly (as it would be for any car, including newer ones).

To be frank, many very old cars, even if pristine, are potentially very dangerous to other road users and pedstrians if used on busy roads in peak periods (many proper classic cars were built when there wer far less people and only a few other road users, let alone cars about) or in bad weather (unless they are closed specially for a 'classic rally' or suchlike), as many either drive way too slowly, hold up the traffic and induce other road users to take risks (and get angry when they don't pull over [a bit like caravaners], unlike farm vehicles which often do) to overtake, or, if they do drive at the speed of the other vehicles, they do not have the brakes to stop sufficiently quickly when required (why there were so many accidents in days of yore, especially before the manditory introduction of seat belts.

In my opinion, most proper classic car owners (as I said earlier) are acutely aware of this and travel when its more appropriate and don't use them as a 'regular' car, however some people do and will need to kept an eye on. It may mean that some classic cars cannot be driven on the road because they cannot comply with modern minimum safety regulations (showing particular indicators etc) so can only be driven on private land (classic car shows for example), but I would summise that most can, perhaps with some limitations as described above, or with minor modifications.

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - carl233

"It is the owners of 15-20 year old cars who are more likely to be driving inadequately maintained potentially dangerous cars"

It is typically people running 'top of the range' cars from 'permium' makers in my opinion that find it hard to maintain them with the PCP payments. I currently run a 20 year old car as my everyday vehicle and recently spent £350 on tyres, more than the vehicle is worth but I do not really mind. I simply will not purchase a new one due to how overpriced cars are in the UK.

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - Andrew-T

I currently run a 20 year old car as my everyday vehicle and recently spent £350 on tyres, more than the vehicle is worth but I do not really mind. I simply will not purchase a new one due to how overpriced cars are in the UK.

As you run a 20-y-o car, it seems to me that you needn't consider buying new. A 4 or 5 y-o would be much more reasonably priced?

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - carl233

As you run a 20-y-o car, it seems to me that you needn't consider buying new. A 4 or 5 y-o would be much more reasonably priced?

I am not convinced with the engineering quality of many of the recent vehicles a 5 year old vehicle is typically due serious bills from the DMF etc which my current vehicle does not have. Have considered buying a 10 year old Lexus IS250 as I am not concerned with fuel burn although after enquiring about part prices from the local Lexus dealer and the sharp suited staff it has been enough to put me off for the time being.

I consider engineering quality and durability very poor compared to vehicles at the end of the 1990's. I am of course talking generally. My 20 year old MK2 Mondeo currently now has 236,000 miles and is still going strong and the Zetec-e still sounds sweet. Also the MTX75 box after I did a refurb on the selecter cable is still quite reasonable.

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

All valid points, but none of the above is required or even threatened at present. The relaxation on the MOT is surely an indication that none of the above restrictions will be imposed in the near future. The monitoring of a vehicles use would take quite a bit of regulation and control.

My original question is really about originality versus legality versus practicality in modern day driving. But I guess it will be suck it and see.

Our, now defunct, annual run for old cars (pre 1945 basically) and non-modern bikes was run in the Peak District every summer.It was run as a carefully marshalled 'road safety' run with plenty of attention paid to roadcraft, which avoided any allegations of a competitive rally as such. The cars and the owners aged together - the value and rarity of many vehicles precluded the younger generation from taking part.

The classic car events seem to appeal to the younger market, in both price and practicality.

The uprating of 1950s cars is scary though viz. full race Austin A35s leading Jaguars at Goodwood.

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - The Gingerous One

The lack of MoT's for 40+ year old cars does worry me, and I own one.

there are still many 'barn finds' cropping up of 70s cars so I am sure you can guess what could happen at the lower end of society, cobble cobble bodge bodge underseal underseal sell sell for £2500+ , or for more in the case of Fords or Vauxhalls.

Once I have got the TR7 back on the road I'll be taking it for an MoT, I wouldn't dare not do....

Edited by The Gingerous One on 20/11/2017 at 12:37

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - focussed

G W S wrote:-

"In the event of a fatal accident involving a non MOT vehicle, I fear that an expensive technical analysis will be required as to its legality."

I am willing to bet that the incidence of fatal accidents to "non MOT vehicles" ie classics is zero or close to zero.

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - galileo

G W S wrote:-

"In the event of a fatal accident involving a non MOT vehicle, I fear that an expensive technical analysis will be required as to its legality."

I am willing to bet that the incidence of fatal accidents to "non MOT vehicles" ie classics is zero or close to zero.

I would bet that in accidents severe enough to cause fatalities the fatal casualties would be in the classic, based on the results of accidents I saw in the 1960s/1970s and the known 'crashworthiness' of most classics.

I had Anglias, Cortinas, Zephyrs and original Minis but would be extremely careful among present day traffic in any of them.

Any - No MOT For Vehicles Over 40 Years Old - Avant

"I am willing to bet that the incidence of fatal accidents to "non MOT vehicles" ie classics is zero or close to zero."

Surely that's largely because most cars of this age travel low mileages, and are usually driven by owners who not only cherish their cars but also know their limitations.

I've just posted on another thread about a 1965 Ford Zodiac Mark 3 seen on a recording of an Antiques Roadshow that SWMBO was watching. Wonderful visibility all-round through a huge glass area - but if it overturned, would anyone escape alive?

 

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