That didn’t take long - dadbif
It hasn’t taken long for the rip off merchants to jump on the
bandwagon, I how much of the fuel we consume in the UK
actually comes from the flood hit areas?
news.sky.com/story/hurricane-harvey-blamed-for-loo...3
That didn’t take long - RT

Petrol/gasoline is a globally traded product - the shutdown of Gulf refineries increases demand global for gasoline for the Americans - that will inevitably put the price up everywhere - so that's no rip-off.

The rip-off comes because most of the pump price in the UK is fuel duty, which doesn't change, so the increase in material cost is much lower as a %.

In theory, petrol should be affected by the rise much more than diesel - we'll see!

That didn’t take long - Andrew-T

In theory, petrol should be affected by the rise much more than diesel - we'll see!

Up to a point, we can rebalance our refineries, can't we?

That didn’t take long - RT

In theory, petrol should be affected by the rise much more than diesel - we'll see!

Up to a point, we can rebalance our refineries, can't we?

No - the % of each refined fuel is determined by the design of the refinery so can take decades to change.

That didn’t take long - sandy56

We dont import petrol from the USA, at least not on a regular basis. We import most of our oil and gas from Norway, Russia, MidEast OPEC( those nice arab countries). We produce our own petrol at our (rather old ) refineries. The oil industry did try to build new more efficient, refinieries but the greenies would not let them. If there is any big problem with the refinery now then they will shut it down and we would be importing petrol, which would be very expensive and motoring costs would increase.

That didn’t take long - argybargy

A vague feeling of irritation followed by resignation to forces beyond my control. That was my response to this news.

As consumers of petrol we will remain hostage to the whims, wishes, why's and wherefores of the oil producers and refiners until one day, as surely will happen, the cash cow which is the internal combustion engine becomes a thing of the past.

That didn’t take long - Andrew-T

<< ... the % of each refined fuel is determined by the design of the refinery so can take decades to change. >>

Are you seriously suggesting that the proportions of diesel/petrol/heating oil (and other products) are fixed in perpetuity? There has to be some flexibility, if only to allow for seasonal demands, and the proportion of diesel and petrol vehicles can't be absolutely constant either. If that's the case, the only recourse is to put whatever is in excess into a big tank, burn it off, or recycle it I suppose.

I remember in the 70s/80s when ICI were briefly in the petrol business (there is, or was until quite recently, an ICI garage sign still standing in Alston) it was rumoured that part of its rationale was to dispose of unwanted pentadiene, which used to give the stuff a unique smell.

That didn’t take long - RT

<< ... the % of each refined fuel is determined by the design of the refinery so can take decades to change. >>

Are you seriously suggesting that the proportions of diesel/petrol/heating oil (and other products) are fixed in perpetuity? There has to be some flexibility, if only to allow for seasonal demands, and the proportion of diesel and petrol vehicles can't be absolutely constant either. If that's the case, the only recourse is to put whatever is in excess into a big tank, burn it off, or recycle it I suppose.

I remember in the 70s/80s when ICI were briefly in the petrol business (there is, or was until quite recently, an ICI garage sign still standing in Alston) it was rumoured that part of its rationale was to dispose of unwanted pentadiene, which used to give the stuff a unique smell.

Think back to when diesel cars started to get popular, peaking at 50% of sales - during that time demand for diesel was higher than petrol, even in summer, even more so in winter as heating oil is very similar - visible by the higher pump rice for diesel, the usual way of evening out excess demand - but then as the production mix caught up, the prices equalised and diesel became cheaper than petrol.

The UK exports virtually all of it's oil - North Sea crude is a very fine quality and commands a premium globally and is too good to make petrol/diesel from - so UK refineries import crude from elsewhere as well as importing large amounts of refined petrol/diesel.

We're already seeing a drop in demand for diesel cars, which reflects in reduced demand for diesel fuel - add to that the fact that petrol/gasoline is so cheap in the USA that they'll simply buy more on the global market if their home refineries are shut down.

That didn’t take long - Andrew-T

Yes, of course the price is affected by 'demand', but that demand can't change much, as cars, trucks, buses, trains and central heating boilers - not to mention aircraft - generally keep consuming much as before. So if we can't adjust our output, it follows that our overseas suppliers have to make the adjustments instead.

It's a bit like the chlorine business. All (I think pretty well all) chlorine is made by electrolysing brine from rocksalt, which means that for every ton of chlorine you get a matching amount of caustic soda, which you normally sell to detergent makers or the like. The problem is keeping the two demands in balance. Globally it has to be 1:1. I don't think the petrol:diesel ratio is immutable.

That didn’t take long - Manatee

Yes, of course the price is affected by 'demand', but that demand can't change much,

I think the point was that demand for non-US-produced oil can increase, and probably has (and/or the price has gone up - bearing in mind that demand must equal supply).

Edited by Manatee on 02/09/2017 at 15:00

That didn’t take long - Andrew-T

Yes, of course the price is affected by 'demand', but that demand can't change much,

I think the point was that demand for non-US-produced oil can increase, and probably has (and/or the price has gone up - bearing in mind that demand must equal supply).

Demand may be exceeding supply at the moment, which hasn't been the case for a while; pump prices have been (relatively) low for some time now.

That didn’t take long - concrete

It is inevitable that the USA will start imports of refined oil if their refineries are closed for an extended period. This will elevate the price of refined oil (petrol and diesel) on the world market. The interesting part will be when the crisis is over, will the price reduce. I have some sympathy for the oil companies, in that their share of the 'pie' is dwarfed by greedy governments. They go to some very inhospitable places, drill for oil, extract it, transport it to refineries, refine it, transport it fuel stations, sell it. They make a few pence per litre while HM government make a mint! Also it is still only £1.18 per litre. Beer on the other hand, a much simpler operation altogether, is about £6.80 per litre and again HM government makes a mint! Doesn't matter which way you cut it, the bad boys here are really the governments. If the price goes up, so does their take from the VAT. A win win for the politicians! And we think they are stupid!!! Cheers Concrete

That didn’t take long - sandy56

Dont be concerned about the oil companies, they are perfectly capabale of protecting their profits. Beware the ignorance stupidity and incompetence of UK governments.

That didn’t take long - Ethan Edwards

Ditto.

That didn’t take long - Andrew-T

Beer on the other hand, a much simpler operation altogether, is about £6.80 per litre and again HM government makes a mint! Doesn't matter which way you cut it, the bad boys here are really the governments.

Concrete, I've been drawing this comparison for decades, pointing out in addition that the main ingredient of beer falls from the sky - especially round Houston just lately. It may be largely a matter of charging what the market will stand - which is harder to control in these days of global marketing.

That didn’t take long - RT

Beer on the other hand, a much simpler operation altogether, is about £6.80 per litre and again HM government makes a mint! Doesn't matter which way you cut it, the bad boys here are really the governments.

Concrete, I've been drawing this comparison for decades, pointing out in addition that the main ingredient of beer falls from the sky - especially round Houston just lately. It may be largely a matter of charging what the market will stand - which is harder to control in these days of global marketing.

It's totally about charging what the market will stand - the water coming out of my tap is charged at £1.08 per cubic metre, that's per 1,000 litres - the same water is bottled and sold by Lidl at £0.35 per 2 litres - go figure.

 

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