Optimum size of oil filter? - John F

I have just changed the oil in our Focus (some regulars might do a doubletake here;-)

The replacement filter (Halfords, £4) is half the size of the old one. Have all previous filters been unnecessarily large and expensive? Have the boffins finally realised that modern engines produce far fewer particles than the old cast iron lumps?

Optimum size of oil filter? - Oli rag

Blimey John i nearly fell over when i read that!

Things have got smaller since your last oil change, transistors have appeared , silicone chips and automation have all happened. I mean have you seen the size of a Mars bar recently:).

Optimum size of oil filter? - mss1tw

Metal and filter media cost money.

You pays your money and makes your choice.

Optimum size of oil filter? - daveyjp
Filter on my Forester is not much larger than the very small cans of drink you get on aircraft. However I am surprised a replacement for a Focus is smaller than the original, are you sure its the correct one?
Optimum size of oil filter? - elekie&a/c doctor

A genuine filter from Ford dealer is now smaller than the original. Even on cars with a replacement element type filter,some are no bigger than a yoghurt pot.

Optimum size of oil filter? - gordonbennet

Nope, my Toyota still has a monster sized filter and the Wix pattern replacements i bought half a dozen of are the same size.

Smaller filter means less filter material, given your unique oil service routine (only teasing John) wouldn't 500 square yards of filter medium be a better bet than 6"? i suspect the genuine filter from your fiendly Ford parts dept would be the correct size and the accessory shop thing should be in a Ka...:-)

Interesting thing with filters, the Subaru filter is quite small, i bought a Mann filter first time which due to the shape of the face only went on about 2 turns, nope not having that binned it, found K&N filters to be very well made and fit the Subaru much better, down to me last one now so if it lasts another year i'll have to get some more.

Seriously, i know you leave the oil in a fair while, i feel differently but what you do works for you very cost effectively, have you ever considered running an oil spinner as a secondary filter?

It would be a most interesting experiment with a Diesel, eg i'd love to see what carbon gloop a Diesel of Doom managed to produce in the humorous maker recommended oil change interval, you'd be digging it out of the spinner for a week and more than likely need a hazchem certifcate for disposal.

Optimum size of oil filter? - Metropolis.
My TD5 has two oil filters, the main filter and a centrifugal one. Not sure how common this is?
Optimum size of oil filter? - JEREMYH

I am very intreasted in what Toyota you run

I have a Previa D4d 2,0 and it has a tractor size filter that is very difficult to remove as it has a cross member in the way but I have prefected this task should anyone wish to know

Optimum size of oil filter? - gordonbennet

I am very intreasted in what Toyota you run

I have a Previa D4d 2,0 and it has a tractor size filter that is very difficult to remove as it has a cross member in the way but I have prefected this task should anyone wish to know

Landcruiser 120 series with the 3.0 D4D, wouldn't be at all surprised if they are the same filter model, fortunately the LC filter sits upside down on the side of the lump and easily accessible from above, Mr T thoughtfully provided a channel for oil to collect in when you undo the filter (has anti drain valve in filter) with a drainpipe from that channel leading down and clipped to the sump so no mess it goes straight into the drain can.

Talking of draining oil, i've had to stop using my years old drain can, and quietly 'borrowed' permanently a standard sink basin for the purpose from SWMBO, 7.5 litres of hot oil comes out fast and with my old oil drain can there was just too much splashback, much easier in the basin.

Previa filter was never going to be quite as easy given where the engine is situated, but i do have a soft spot for Previas, a nice drive and so roomy with that walk through front section.

There are some videos on Youtube for anyone interested, where mechanics (mainly in the USA but some in the UK if you look hard enough) have bought and dismantled umpteen filters to see how they are made, some rather shoddy stuff out there at the typical accessory shop end.

Edited by gordonbennet on 07/08/2017 at 07:30

Optimum size of oil filter? - Wackyracer

There are some videos on Youtube for anyone interested, where mechanics (mainly in the USA but some in the UK if you look hard enough) have bought and dismantled umpteen filters to see how they are made, some rather shoddy stuff out there at the typical accessory shop end.

I have occasionally cut open the old filters I've removed to have a nosy at the construction. Our UK sold Fram filters are much better than those American ones you see on the Net. The interesting ones are dual element filters. it has one normal looking oil filter element and another that seems to be a roll of filter paper tightly packed inside a tin shell (or at least the Toyota one does).

I don't buy into the OE ones being better, for my Citroen the only difference between buying a Citroen OE or a Purflux filter is the card board box it comes in and the same applies for one of our Vauxhalls too. I'm not paying a fiver more for a cardboard box that I throw away just because it has the car makers brand printed on it.

Optimum size of oil filter? - RT

There are some videos on Youtube for anyone interested, where mechanics (mainly in the USA but some in the UK if you look hard enough) have bought and dismantled umpteen filters to see how they are made, some rather shoddy stuff out there at the typical accessory shop end.

I have occasionally cut open the old filters I've removed to have a nosy at the construction. Our UK sold Fram filters are much better than those American ones you see on the Net. The interesting ones are dual element filters. it has one normal looking oil filter element and another that seems to be a roll of filter paper tightly packed inside a tin shell (or at least the Toyota one does).

I don't buy into the OE ones being better, for my Citroen the only difference between buying a Citroen OE or a Purflux filter is the card board box it comes in and the same applies for one of our Vauxhalls too. I'm not paying a fiver more for a cardboard box that I throw away just because it has the car makers brand printed on it.

Aftermarket brand quality doesn't remain consistent - what was good in the past often isn't now, and vice versa.

Quality and specification aren't the same thing - easy to get an aftermarket filter which is good quality but the wrong specification - but if you want to save £5 on a £10 Vauxhall filter, that's your call.

Cartridge filters are easier to save money on - buy the first from the franchised dealer, examine it before fitment to get the maker's name and part number - get subsequent filter from the internet!

Optimum size of oil filter? - Wackyracer

Aftermarket brand quality doesn't remain consistent - what was good in the past often isn't now, and vice versa.

Quality and specification aren't the same thing - easy to get an aftermarket filter which is good quality but the wrong specification - but if you want to save £5 on a £10 Vauxhall filter, that's your call.

You didn't understand what I wrote RT. The filter I used to get from Citroen was a Purflux LS867B in a Citroen box, I can buy a Purflux LS867B from GSF for £2-50. Next your be telling me that Purflux make 2 qualities of the same filter using the same number.

What if I buy an iPhone 7 from O2 ? is that inferior to the iPhone 7 direct from Apple store ? cricky it's like pulling teeth sometimes on this forum !

Optimum size of oil filter? - gordonbennet
I don't buy into the OE ones being better, for my Citroen the only difference between buying a Citroen OE or a Purflux filter is the card board box it comes in and the same applies for one of our Vauxhalls too. I'm not paying a fiver more for a cardboard box that I throw away just because it has the car makers brand printed on it.

Indeed, the same applied with OE brake pads, German branded cars often had Textar brand, simple enough to cross refer the part numbers and get the same pad for 1/3rd the price from ECP, pads not even stamped with car makers brand (which MB used to have done)

Mind you i've gone over to Brembo pads now, providing that lovely light progressive brake feel that i haven't been able to find again since the heyday of Ferodo, ECP selling Brembos at sensible prices is a bonus, made a big difference to SWMBO Scoob.

Optimum size of oil filter? - Wackyracer

Mind you i've gone over to Brembo pads now, providing that lovely light progressive brake feel that i haven't been able to find again since the heyday of Ferodo, ECP selling Brembos at sensible prices is a bonus, made a big difference to SWMBO Scoob.

I've got 2 sets of Ferodo premium pads in the garage for the Citroen, bought them from a garage sale for £1 a set.

Have to say, I was watching 'in the factory' the other night and when the truck was delivering flour to the biscuit factory I immediately thought of you :-) I've got some CPC periodic training coming up, starting to think if I should get some eyes painted on my eyelids so I can sleep through it without them noticing.

Optimum size of oil filter? - gordonbennet

I've got 2 sets of Ferodo premium pads in the garage for the Citroen, bought them from a garage sale for £1 a set.

Have to say, I was watching 'in the factory' the other night and when the truck was delivering flour to the biscuit factory I immediately thought of you :-) I've got some CPC periodic training coming up, starting to think if I should get some eyes painted on my eyelids so I can sleep through it without them noticing.

Do they still have the abrasive layer bonded to the pad to deglaze the disc? Haven't seen that on anyone else's pads.

CPC, oh dear, luckily for us its an easy paid day and generally the trainers who come to our site make it quite interesting, certainly compared to the first module i did elsewhere where i ended up in argument as the geezer was urging the younger drivers there to drive on the brakes as you would a car, twerp, my company never used the services of that lot again.

No, 'twasn't me..:-)

Optimum size of oil filter? - Wackyracer

I've got 2 sets of Ferodo premium pads in the garage for the Citroen, bought them from a garage sale for £1 a set.

Have to say, I was watching 'in the factory' the other night and when the truck was delivering flour to the biscuit factory I immediately thought of you :-) I've got some CPC periodic training coming up, starting to think if I should get some eyes painted on my eyelids so I can sleep through it without them noticing.

Do they still have the abrasive layer bonded to the pad to deglaze the disc? Haven't seen that on anyone else's pads.

CPC, oh dear, luckily for us its an easy paid day and generally the trainers who come to our site make it quite interesting, certainly compared to the first module i did elsewhere where i ended up in argument as the geezer was urging the younger drivers there to drive on the brakes as you would a car, twerp, my company never used the services of that lot again.

No, 'twasn't me..:-)

Yes they have a red (or brown?) abrasive layer but, I don't know how long they sat on someone elses garage shelf, maybe they no longer do it? The price label on them says £15 iirc. When I bought some EBC Greenstuff pads they also had an abrasive layer but, I found them to be poor and changed them for some old stock Jurid pads.

That is how they teach them now GB ' gears to go, brakes to slow'. They all seem to do their tests in auto's thesedays anyway (says me who drives a Scania with 3 pedal opticruise) I still think the 4 over 4 was my favorite box.

Optimum size of oil filter? - gordonbennet
That is how they teach them now GB ' gears to go, brakes to slow'. They all seem to do their tests in auto's thesedays anyway (says me who drives a Scania with 3 pedal opticruise) I still think the 4 over 4 was my favorite box.

Yes and utter cobblers GTGBTS is too, how many of us who attend the lorry wheel know deep in our hearts that if that young chap in the Bath tipper tragedy had been trained to drive a lorry like a lorry and not a large car, that things might have turned out very differently for everyone...i wonder why the defence didn't venture down that line of enquiry, were they warned off? but then the lad was aquitted so no need in this case, but someone with clout really needs to look at this training issue and soon.

My favourite boxes were the Eaton Twin Splitter, the Fuller 13 speed, and for sheer b***** mindedness Foden's own 12 speed with the unequal split, and you know what you can do with all those automated manuals.

off topic but if anyone wants to see a chap who can handle a Foden 12 speed box, with bonus two stroke joy, then feast your eyes on this for 8 minutes, worth every second.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pwhm_xoDiY

Edited by gordonbennet on 07/08/2017 at 18:49

Optimum size of oil filter? - Wackyracer

My favourite boxes were the Eaton Twin Splitter,

One company I worked for only had Eaton twin splitters, If you couldn't drive it on the initial assesment they showed you the door. It worked very well at keeping out the inexperienced but, when the union lost it's hold they were replaced with DAF CF's with 4 over 4.

Entirely agree about the braking situation but, of course its all a case of getting someone sat in the drivers seat for the lowest possible wage all the time. Whatever happened to the 2 years minimum commercial experience requirement?

Optimum size of oil filter? - John F

have you ever considered running an oil spinner as a secondary filter?

It would be a most interesting experiment with a Diesel....

What.......me spend money unnecessarily??! I'll leave that to you, gb! Anyway, isn't carbon a lubricant? (graphite...) I suppose it must be otherwise diesel engines would die sooner than petrol engines. Do they wear out piston rings and bores quicker than petrol engines, all other things being equal?

Optimum size of oil filter? - gordonbennet

I suppose it must be otherwise diesel engines would die sooner than petrol engines. Do they wear out piston rings and bores quicker than petrol engines, all other things being equal?

I've fully stripped three of my own Diesels, but many years since needed to, luckily i've been able to buy cars that didn't need attention as i got older and i have overmantained my cars for ever...ever since my first boss astounded us by authorising an oil change on one of the Transits with the Perkins 4108 lump, and use the term lump advisedly, even with the engine hot with the sump bung removed some time poking about through the hole was needed before actually getting any of the lumpy gruel that was in there out... could he have been your dad John, he did live at Earls Barton.:-)))

First was a 2 year old Granada 2.5 Diesel (Peug 505 NA engine), bought car cheap breathing heavily, had been badly neglected run low on oil and lack of oil changes, engine basically worn out, rebored it new pistons and some top end wear but i forget what i needed to replace up top, pushrod design by the way, crank very tough casting with no wear at all but bearings shot to pieces so new bearings, very simple engine.

I was quite proud of that first Diesel rebuild, a mechanic i know rebuilt an identical engine which detroyed itself about a year later, what he'd done wrong i don't know.

Second was the VW Golf mk1 i bought cheap which was running on three, had a holed piston, basically there was no appreciable wear to the engine but together with the new piston i chucked a new set of piston rings and shells in for good measure, rings replaced mainly in order to even compressions out.

Third was the 2098 cc Renault 21 Savanna, done 130,000 miles and it sprung on oil leak from the CHG, so one week i whipped the head off and also dropped the sump and pulled the pistons out, no wear at all to be found, that car had a FSH and very regular oil changes, probably every 5k (someone get John a chair for pities sake -:) , while down i got the injectors reconditioned for the princely sum of £60.

In theory Diesels should wear slower than petrol engines due to the lubricity of the fuel, whether that has changed with lower sulphur content fuel i don't know, but too long (IMHO) oil change intervals won't help wear.

In lorry world those old engines were generally larger but much easier running, ie 320 or 350HP from a 14 litre engine was as much as they wanted to offer in the 80's (torque was massive though at around 1100 rpm peak torque), and given sensible maintenance they lasted over 1 million miles before needing any attention beyond torquing the injectors down and setting the tappets annually, Cummins 14 litre i'm referring to here, revved low too, IIRC 90% of max torque from 800 rpm, max revs 1800 rpm, geared to 70mph at 1100 rpm peak torque, run forever.

Fast forward to today and they're pushing 450/480hp from 11/12 litre engines, with much longer oil change intervals, the mechanics at the local dealership of one make we lease from say some of ours have to have full engine rebuilds when they go back at 5 years (thats if they've made the 5 years without one!) with around 800,000kms (half a million miles) on them.

I've long thought that trying to get too much power from a small engine, at the same time hobbling it with dirty oil isn't a recipe for long life.

I like you a lot John and would be happy if we ever met to chew the cud over, you remind me of my mate who virtually lights the blue touch paper and stands back to watch the fireworks.

Optimum size of oil filter? - FP

"Anyway, isn't carbon a lubricant? (graphite...)"

A bit off-topic but... I'm not a chemist or physicist, but isn't there a fundamental difference between carbon (as formed like soot from combustion) and graphite? A difference in their molecular structure? Graphite has a crystalline structure, for a start. That might mean that, although ordinary carbon and graphite are the same chemically, they might not have the same lubricating porperties. (Diamond is another form of carbon, of course. Interesting stuff, carbon.)

Edited by FP on 07/08/2017 at 13:38

Optimum size of oil filter? - FiestaOwner

I have just changed the oil in our Focus (some regulars might do a doubletake here;-)

The replacement filter (Halfords, £4) is half the size of the old one. Have all previous filters been unnecessarily large and expensive? Have the boffins finally realised that modern engines produce far fewer particles than the old cast iron lumps?

Do you use the old oil from your Focus to do an oil change on your TR7?

Sorry couldn't resist asking that! Know you get a lot of stick regarding oil changes!

Many years ago I used to run a MK2 950 Fiesta. I remember the Ford oil filters for that used to vary significanly in length athough they were all the same part number (EFL125). How sad is it that I remember that number?

Optimum size of oil filter? - oldroverboy.

I remember the Ford oil filters for that used to vary significanly in length athough they were all the same part number (EFL125). How sad is it that I remember that number?

Equally sad is how many Rover and jaguar and unipart numbers I can still remember...

V12 series 3 ecu lucas anyone... ford finiscodes.. opel parts groupings 1-20,,, VW prefixes 111, 113 211 etc 311 the the second group designating the area of the car engine gearbox, brakes bodywork electrics etc..

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Optimum size of oil filter? - FiestaOwner
V12 series 3 ecu lucas anyone...

Think that says more about the reliability of Jaguar V12 Series 3 ECU's, than your memory!

Optimum size of oil filter? - John F

Do you use the old oil from your Focus to do an oil change on your TR7?

Sorry couldn't resist asking that! Know you get a lot of stick regarding oil changes!

Ho ho! The Focus does around 7,000m p.a. so it's less than 2yrs old. The 'stick' is from HJ disciples who dogmatically and unscientifically insist that oil should be changed every 365 days no matter what.

Not the TR7 (although it would indeed probably suffice as its 5-30 might have degenerated to around the 10-40 viscosity the TR7 specifies) but in my lawnmower engine and chainsaw chain lubricant. And mole deterrent (500mls down the hole under the molehill sends them back where they came from). And fence posts/stakes. And painting anything under the car that looks rusty while it's on the ramps - I then leave it to drip overnight so as much grot as possible drains out. You'd be surprised how much does.

Waste not want not.

Optimum size of oil filter? - Andrew-T

<< ... it would indeed probably suffice as its 5-30 might have degenerated to around the 10-40 viscosity ... >>

I thought oil usually got thinner with prolonged use. It may collect some crud in a 'dirty' engine, but normally the molecules suffer like going through a bacon slicer. I guess there may be some oxidative cross-linking.

Optimum size of oil filter? - RT
Not the TR7 (although it would indeed probably suffice as its 5-30 might have degenerated to around the 10-40 viscosity the TR7 specifies).

Oil degradation with time/miles goes the other way - 5-30 will degenerate to a 0-20 over time/miles - although modern ACEA-rated multigrades are more likely to "stay-in-grade" longer than those from previous generations.

Optimum size of oil filter? - John F
Not the TR7 (although it would indeed probably suffice as its 5-30 might have degenerated to around the 10-40 viscosity the TR7 specifies).

Oil degradation with time/miles goes the other way - 5-30 will degenerate to a 0-20 over time/miles - although modern ACEA-rated multigrades are more likely to "stay-in-grade" longer than those from previous generations.

Aha - should've used the ancient TR7 oil in the Focus! Actually, it's complicated - although molecules shear thus reducing viscosity, oxidisation causes them to clump together, increasing it - which is why old engine oil seems more 'gloopy' than the runny new stuff.

Optimum size of oil filter? - RT
Not the TR7 (although it would indeed probably suffice as its 5-30 might have degenerated to around the 10-40 viscosity the TR7 specifies).

Oil degradation with time/miles goes the other way - 5-30 will degenerate to a 0-20 over time/miles - although modern ACEA-rated multigrades are more likely to "stay-in-grade" longer than those from previous generations.

Aha - should've used the ancient TR7 oil in the Focus! Actually, it's complicated - although molecules shear thus reducing viscosity, oxidisation causes them to clump together, increasing it - which is why old engine oil seems more 'gloopy' than the runny new stuff.

The oil I drain down at 10,000 miles is thinner than when it went in - never tried keeping it in as long in years as you do though.

I hope you weren't serious but the Focus will need a modern specification that isn't just about viscosity - there's all the other aspects that go to make up the required ACEA grade.

Optimum size of oil filter? - John F
The oil I drain down at 10,000 miles is thinner than when it went in - never tried keeping it in as long in years as you do though.

It might seem thinner if it's hot coming out and cold going in.

In the absence of a viscometer I have just done an experiment. From a teaspoon, drop three drops of old and new oil side by side at the top of a (flat) clean tile. They form two puddles, at the same temperature, about the size of a pound coin. Make tile vertical - two drops race slowly to the bottom - the clear new oil is over an inch in the lead, so must be less viscous. QED!

Optimum size of oil filter? - Andrew-T

<< Make tile vertical - two drops race slowly to the bottom - the clear new oil is over an inch in the lead, so must be less viscous. QED! >>

You'd find the same difference between old and new paint. How old is that oil, John ? :-)

Optimum size of oil filter? - John F

<< Make tile vertical - two drops race slowly to the bottom - the clear new oil is over an inch in the lead, so must be less viscous. QED! >>

You'd find the same difference between old and new paint. How old is that oil, John ? :-)

Paint - false analogy (hasn't been used). That oil - 10,000m since May 2016.

Optimum size of oil filter? - Wackyracer
It might seem thinner if it's hot coming out and cold going in.

In the absence of a viscometer I have just done an experiment. From a teaspoon, drop three drops of old and new oil side by side at the top of a (flat) clean tile. They form two puddles, at the same temperature, about the size of a pound coin. Make tile vertical - two drops race slowly to the bottom - the clear new oil is over an inch in the lead, so must be less viscous. QED!

Try doing it to the industry standard tests at 40*C and 100*C and then post your results. I think you'll find the old oil is like water at 100*C compared to the new oil.

Optimum size of oil filter? - John F
It might seem thinner if it's hot coming out and cold going in.

In the absence of a viscometer I have just done an experiment. From a teaspoon, drop three drops of old and new oil side by side at the top of a (flat) clean tile. They form two puddles, at the same temperature, about the size of a pound coin. Make tile vertical - two drops race slowly to the bottom - the clear new oil is over an inch in the lead, so must be less viscous. QED!

Try doing it to the industry standard tests at 40*C and 100*C and then post your results. I think you'll find the old oil is like water at 100*C compared to the new oil.

I think you think wrong. I have just repeated the experiment, this time boiling the 15cm x 20cm bathroom tile for 5mins to get to as near 100*C as possible (most engines run at 90C, after which the cooling fan kicks in). I found the new oil ran even more quickly than the old, over 2inches in the lead at the bottom of the tile. QED+!

Optimum size of oil filter? - Wackyracer
It might seem thinner if it's hot coming out and cold going in.

In the absence of a viscometer I have just done an experiment. From a teaspoon, drop three drops of old and new oil side by side at the top of a (flat) clean tile. They form two puddles, at the same temperature, about the size of a pound coin. Make tile vertical - two drops race slowly to the bottom - the clear new oil is over an inch in the lead, so must be less viscous. QED!

Try doing it to the industry standard tests at 40*C and 100*C and then post your results. I think you'll find the old oil is like water at 100*C compared to the new oil.

I think you think wrong. I have just repeated the experiment, this time boiling the 15cm x 20cm bathroom tile for 5mins to get to as near 100*C as possible (most engines run at 90C, after which the cooling fan kicks in). I found the new oil ran even more quickly than the old, over 2inches in the lead at the bottom of the tile. QED+!

Crickey, I must be wrong! JohnF's home dreamt experiment has proved me wrong ;-) Quick where is my phone, I'll have to phone Millers and Amsoil to tell them the error of their ways.

Seriously John? really? A heated bathroom tile to about 100*C and three drips of oil, that is never going to be an accurate measure of true kinematic viscosity.

Optimum size of oil filter? - John F
Crickey, I must be wrong! JohnF's home dreamt experiment has proved me wrong ;-) Quick where is my phone, I'll have to phone Millers and Amsoil to tell them the error of their ways.

Seriously John? really? A heated bathroom tile to about 100*C and three drips of oil, that is never going to be an accurate measure of true kinematic viscosity.

No dream, and no claim for accurate measurement of tkv. Just a comparison of two oils for my own amusement and to demonstrate what actually happens.

I have just repeated the experiment - room temperature old Focus oil 5-30 v. Wilco multigrade 15w-40 which I use for the TR7. This time the drops were neck and neck, the old Focus oil just won by a length (it's raining so no gardening). So perhaps I could use it in the TR7 after all!

Optimum size of oil filter? - galileo

Try doing it to the industry standard tests at 40*C and 100*C and then post your results. I think you'll find the old oil is like water at 100*C compared to the new oil.

My reference book says SAE viscosity tests are run at 0 F, 150 F and 210 F.

150 F equates to 65.5 C, 210 F is near enough 100 C.

Optimum size of oil filter? - Wackyracer

Try doing it to the industry standard tests at 40*C and 100*C and then post your results. I think you'll find the old oil is like water at 100*C compared to the new oil.

My reference book says SAE viscosity tests are run at 0 F, 150 F and 210 F.

150 F equates to 65.5 C, 210 F is near enough 100 C.

Try looking at the TDS for any European engine oil. They all list the viscosity at 40 C and 100 C.

BTW, They do not measure viscosity as such at 0F (~ -17 C) because the oil won't run through a tiny orifice. They measure apparent viscosity at cold temperatures.

Edited by Wackyracer on 08/08/2017 at 14:47

Optimum size of oil filter? - Andrew-T

<< it's complicated - although molecules shear thus reducing viscosity, oxidation causes them to clump together, increasing it - which is why old engine oil seems more 'gloopy' than the runny new stuff. >>

It is also why we are advised to change oil when it has got 'gloopy' if that shows it is being oxidised. If gloopy oxidised oil is the best lubricant we might also use glycol for example. But that is hydrophilic and would probably turn into something like the mayo we find if a gasket has gone.

I think it may be false economy to pass used oil down a pecking order of less important machinery.

Optimum size of oil filter? - focussed

The optimum size of an oil filter for any engine can be found by simply referring to the engine manufacturer's spare parts listing for that engine.

It will have all the correct internal components and dimensions necessary for the correct functioning of the filter on the particular engine that it is designed for, such as a bypass valve and an anti-drain valve or membrane.

Non-original or pattern filters may not measure up to these standards.

An original Ford Focus oil filter can be found on the internet for 5 or 6 pounds.

Why bother fitting spurious lookey-likey parts when the original is not exactly expensive?

Optimum size of oil filter? - oldroverboy.

An original Ford Focus oil filter can be found on the internet for 5 or 6 pounds.

Why bother fitting spurious lookey-likey parts when the original is not exactly expensive?

Because people like to save a few ££££s or P's

why are so many cheap tyres called ditchfinders... the money money honey honey.

Optimum size of oil filter? - oldroverboy.

I was just thinking on that subject, I have a neighbour with a venga same spec as mine who wants to save a few bob by not getting it serviced at Kia... so he can kiss his wrranty goodbye then.

I rember in the early 1980s when the German metalworkers union was on strike we could not obtain genuine vw/audi oil filters so the main dealers in switzerland would not do oil filter changes, only oil!

Optimum size of oil filter? - RT

The optimum size of an oil filter for any engine can be found by simply referring to the engine manufacturer's spare parts listing for that engine.

It will have all the correct internal components and dimensions necessary for the correct functioning of the filter on the particular engine that it is designed for, such as a bypass valve and an anti-drain valve or membrane.

Non-original or pattern filters may not measure up to these standards.

An original Ford Focus oil filter can be found on the internet for 5 or 6 pounds.

Why bother fitting spurious lookey-likey parts when the original is not exactly expensive?

Too often, the term "fits model xyz" simply means that it has the same fitting interface - it's no indication at all of the correct internal specification - often omitting non-return or pressure-relief valves or pleat area to save costs - and the micron filtration size may be different.

If you DIY an oil change, settle for the money saved on the oil (easy to get the right specification) and the labour - the few quid "saved" on the filter could cost dear in later use.

Optimum size of oil filter? - FiestaOwner

Too often, the term "fits model xyz" simply means that it has the same fitting interface - it's no indication at all of the correct internal specification - often omitting non-return or pressure-relief valves or pleat area to save costs - and the micron filtration size may be different.

If you DIY an oil change, settle for the money saved on the oil (easy to get the right specification) and the labour - the few quid "saved" on the filter could cost dear in later use.

To be fair, even if you get an oil and filter change at a good independant garage, they'll probably still be fitting a generic filter.

As your Focus is 16 years old (just did a search on the Forum). Probably won't have many years life left in it (although Focus's of this era seem to go on and on). I wouldn't be concerned about which make of oil filter it has. The main thing is that it has had an oil and filter change.

I know someone who bought a 10 year old Focus with full Kwik Fit Service History (Yes, I know) (So definately no OE oil filters). It's now 16 years old and still going strong.

Optimum size of oil filter? - RT

My "good independent" are quite happy for me to supply OE filter and correct oil and just supply the labour - even done that way it's a lot cheaper than using a franchised dealer.

Optimum size of oil filter? - FiestaOwner

My "good independent" are quite happy for me to supply OE filter and correct oil and just supply the labour - even done that way it's a lot cheaper than using a franchised dealer.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I think it's better to use the correct manufacturers filter and oil too (especially for newer cars).

I'm just making the point that most people who choose an independant, let them source the parts which are unlikley to be OE. There are plenty of cars which are running Generic parts. My friend's Focus has been serviced outwith the Ford dealer network for the past 13 years and has been getting whatever oil and filter the independant supplies and is still going strong. I do know it's important to use oil of the correct spec.

There's plenty of people who don't service their cars at all and only think about oil when the red oil can light on the dash board comes on.

In this case the car's near the end of it's life. John F posted a few months back, asking if it was worth doing work to get it through it's MOT. I think he's done the right thing by doing an oil and filter change.

Optimum size of oil filter? - skidpan

I used genuine Ford filters on the Zetec engines in my Puma and Caterham (Mondeo Zetec) for more than a few years. From our local Ford dealer they were cheaper than alternatives so why go elsewhere. Then something happened that cost me a large sum of money. I changed the oil and filter on the Caterham as usual and after a few months suffered a disaster when the filter appeared to have come loose and dumped 4.5 litres of Motul's best on the tarmac. I was very surprised since as this was at a trackday and the previous night I had geiven the car a full check over and know 100% that the oil filter was fully tight. Once home I examined the filter and spotted something I had not previously noted. The "O" ring was not retained in a deep pressing on the face of the filter, it just sat there in a very shallow grove and was able to move about with little finger pressure, it appeared to have simply popped out when the engine was at max revs and oil pressure.

Went to see Mr Ford with the filter and all his stock was the same, he denied having changed design. Went to Halfords, their filter for the Zetec was exactly the same length as Fords but had a deep grove to retain the O ring so bought one. Less than 4 weeks later at another track day another driver using a genuine Ford filter had exactly the same problem but for him it was the 2nd one within 2 years.

So no more Ford filters for me.

When I fitted the Focus Zetec using the OE size Zetec filter was not an option since the steering colum was in the way. The simple solution to this was to fit a filter from a Ka with the old Valencia pushrod motor which was much shorter. Even with the shorter filter from Halfords the clearance was minimal so I did a bit of research and found that the Mahle filter for the Valencia pushrod was just a little shorter giving adequate clearance. the O ring is properly retained as well.

The shorter filters obviously reduce oil capacity slightly as well and reducing filtering capacity. Not a problem doing 2,000 miles a year but could be for an engine on 20,000 mile oil change intervals. But with regular oil changes the engine should never have enough debris in it to clog up a filter, if it does its shot anyway.

Having said all that if there was space I wiould still use the OE size filter, but not one from Ford (unless they have gone back to the original design).

Optimum size of oil filter? - skidpan

And painting anything under the car that looks rusty while it's on the ramps

Used engine oil is not a good protector of rusty parts. It contains moisture, combustion by products, acids etc all of which can actually make the corosion worse. Using a propietory rust proofer for a few pounds makes far more sense and that allows you to dispose of the used oild responsibly at the local council dump it site.

Optimum size of oil filter? - corax

One of the Subaru main dealers in my cars service history used semi synth oil on one of the previous oil changes That wouldn't have been my choice, I've always used fully synth, I don't think a petrol turbo deserves anything less.

I had a hell of a job trying to source genuine coolant, it was usually listed coming from America if I ever found a source. For some reason the dealers don't supply it where I've always been able to walk into the nearest Toyota dealer to pick up the green or pink. In the end after much research on the specifications I used VAG G12 that my indie uses at a very reasonable price since he buys it in bulk. Good stuff and easily available.

 

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