Ahh. But you neglected to mention the diesel proeblems with VAG cars too - get the emission 'fix' carried out, and see how long EGR valves and injectors last - and the DPF, which seem to get a lot more active regens after the 'fix' too. Also the earlier 2.0 VAG diesels, which had the wonderful oil pump design which led to large numbers of engine failures. And then there are the wonderful oil consumption issues that lots of people have had with the 1.8 petrol VAG cars, where VAG attempted, once again, to weasel out of responsibility by claiming that consumption of 1 litre of oil for every 1000km / 600 miles was 'within tolerance'.

In every single one of those cases -and also with the DSG gearbox problems - VAG have attempted to weasel out of their responsibilities. They've only acted when critical mass has made it headline news, and they've been FORCED and shamed into action.

Comparing your car - much like me comparing my car - is pointless. Individually, you are a sample size of 1. As am I. Neither of us ever had problems with our BMW 1 series, and I've never had problems with my 3 series. But then again, I look after my cars, check oil and fluid levels, maintain the things rather than just driving it. I suspect you're the same.

But in general - when that sample size grows to encompass thousands of vehicles - The Golf and other VAG cars seem to come out poorly. Unlike a couple of decades ago, they don't engineer a good car, they build one as cheaply as they think they can get away with. But they still bask in that halo glow of 20 years ago.

As to the Golf being the top selling car in June ... well, if it was as true as the press release claimed, then why on earth would VW be offering huge discounts on Golfs in July, along with free servicing ? I mean, if they're 'selling' so many cars, then why would they be offering even bigger discounts ?

I strongly suspect that the figures for June do not, as is always the case, include pre-registrations by dealers (they do include pre-reg by manufacturers, but the manufacturers get round this by 'encouraging' dealers to do pre-registrations instead).

Edited by RobJP on 17/07/2017 at 11:13

You make a few good points there skidpan. The more cars a brand sells the worse they look. There is one survey on the web that counts the number of faults per car reported under warranty and would you believe it Skoda was top make beating all the Japanese brands.

Reliability to me is when you break down and cant drive, where a squeaky door hinge is a fault and nothing to do with reliability. By that definition every new car Ive bought and nearly every banger Ive owned have been 100% reliable.

VW charge a premium on the Golf making it expensive, probably because they can sell all they can make. Spec for spec Ive seen the Golf dearer than the Passate. You do tend to get a lot of the premium back when you sell it

I have nothing against Japanese cars but they just don't make cars I like. Two I looked at as possibilities were Toyota Avensis estate and Mazda 6 estate, both very nice cars but for me they have serious flaws. Not tried the 165hp Mazda yet.

vw sell more cars than all the so called reliable Japanese cars put together in the UK. My family have owned and run VW group DSG cars for the last 12years. We have had 6speed GTI's run to high mileages without problem. My son has done 80k miles in his Skoda Octavia VRS again without a suggestion of a problem. My wife has the 7speed A1 with DSG which is a lovely drive. Your website because of its nature is one to report problems and I would suggest that because of the number of VW cars sold your statistics are somewhat skewed against the brand. I acknwowledge that in the past Vw admitted to problems but this I believe has been adressed. I currently run a Bmw auto and find no difference in terms of responce or smoothness in driving between the respective transmissions. In todays traffic queuing is the norm and autos make this more relaxing. I personally would recommend the DSG to any buyer.

Yes, I bow to your greater knowledge, because all your cars worked fine, so must all other VAG cars by default. Today's watchwords - representative sample. As long as the sample size is large enough to guage this, then it doesn't matter if VW sells 10x more cars in the UK than Toyota etc. I could understand it if we were comparing them with a marque that only sold a handful, but the Japanese makes sell tens of thousands of comparible models themselves, more than enough, and of course, many more abroad in countries such as the US, Canada, Australia and back in Japan & South Korea.

VAG's DSG problem was so bad that in China and some other countries (outside the EU) they were FORCED by those governments to extend their warranties on these parts well beyond what is available in the EU. A shame that didn't happen in the EU, but not surprising given how much of a stranglehold Germany has on it.

We are never going to agree on this are we Engineer Andy and thats OK. I have been disgusted by VW's treatment of its customers in the aftermath of Dieselgate and have been trying hard to find an alternative. An estate car of the Golf - Passat type with equivalent performance and economy, nice inside, good to drive and preferably petrol this time. I hate SUVs. Any non VAG suggestions?

There's the rub: I too had a similar problem when I was looking to replace my 11yo Mazda 3 - on the face of it, the Golf 1.4 150 GT was spot on, until it wasn't. Drive-wise, it was, other issues as described, not so much. The Japanese alternatives to another Mazda weren't inspiring, or with the new Civic, not the best looker (fine inside this time, the opposite of the previous version -ahhh!), decent performance on the manual but not so nice (again) with the auto, and VERY expensive (more so than a VW and even some Audis - no discounts).

The car industry seems to be very polarised at present, particularly pitting performance/handling/styling vs long-term reliability - that's why I was a bit disappointed with the Mazdas and there comparitive lack of performance of their petrol-engined versions without having to endure the firm ride of the Sport versions. They ticked (for me) all the other boxes on their SE-L Nav versions (VW take note when speccing the GT models which DON'T come with climate controlled A/C as standard, except on continental models [I was looking to buy a pre-reg EU import from Motorpoint, similar to my 3]) except the performance and that the Sport 165 wasn't even available in the saloon, nor now is the auto on any Mazda3 saloon.

Most other oriental cars for the size I want just aren't nice enough looking or good to drive for me, and I suspect for you either, and the CVT type auto boxes used in most Japanese makes just aren't designed for anything other than tootling around.

My ideal car would have:

• The exterior styling of the Golf GT 3dr (metallic silver or black) or Leon SC FR (metallic red or black), Mazda 3 saloon and CX-3 (same colours) a close second;
• The interior styling of the Golf GT 3dr with the panio black facia (not the 'brushed aluminium) - Mazda3 and Civic close second (I can't afford the very nice C class coupe's);
• Performance/mpg of the Golf 1.4/1.5 TSi 150 ACT (the 2.0 180 really nice but a bit over the top for me!);
• Handling of the Mazda3, CX-3 (well, any Mazda car really) or Focus, Golf or Leon reasonable second place (can't afford BMWs so not on the list, especially as they don't in 2WD verisions do well in snow and ice);
• Boot space of the Mazda3 saloon but useability of the hatch of the 3, Golf or Leon;
• Reliability of the Mazda3 (petrol engine) or Honda Civic (presuming the latest version is as reliable as previous ones);
• Post sales customer service of Honda, Toyota or Lexus (we can be lucky with Mazdas [my local dealership is generally very good] and most other makes to whether they are good or not - as my 3 is reliable, I've not had the 'priveledge' to deal with Mazda UK).

If only Mazda put more oomph into their engines, and for you, Stanb, did an estate version of the 3, though I can understand why they don't, as it probably (even if very nice looking) would sell in enough numbers (especially in the UK) to justify its production via a far smaller firm than the likes of VW. Honda might do a Civic estate again, and if you don't want an auto, you may find their 1.0 or 1.5 turbo petrols similar in performance and economy to the VWs, though you may have to wait, pay quite a bit (I think they are over-priced) and like the exterior looks.

One of the reasons I've always liked Mazdas is because for the most part, they are a good compromise across the baord and very reasonably priced (lots of good deals abound, especially on the broker sites [new] or pre-regged v.low mileage examples at reg changeover time [dealerships]). No use to you I'm afraid unless you were willing to 'put up with' the performance 6 petrol saloon.

I used to like the Focus mk 2 or 2.5 better than the mk3 or 3.5 on styling, and considered it when I got my 3 (similar underneath the skin), and the estate was always the best looking (and still is) in the Focus family. Just a shame now the interior is, to me, a backwards step and decidedly low rent with cheap, monotone plastics and not styled well for looks or ergonomics (at least the Mazdas are good on that score, if a little bland). Estates seem to be out of fashion at present, so you may find it difficult to get a non-VAG good'un. The Megane Sports Tourer looks nice (upper models) and has a decent range of engines (performance-wise), but I don't think they're there yet in other respects of engineering quality/reliability (though getting better).

Comparing your car - much like me comparing my car - is pointless. Individually, you are a sample size of 1.

Since 1986 we have owned seven VAG cars so we are not a sample size of one. All have been highly satisfactory. How many do I need to own before my opinion is worthy of consideration?

As to the Golf being the top selling car in June ... well, if it was as true as the press release claimed, then why on earth would VW be offering huge discounts on Golfs in July, along with free servicing ? I mean, if they're 'selling' so many cars, then why would they be offering even bigger discounts ?

Its called marketing. You don't honestly think that Ford never offered discounts to keep the Fiesta at the top.

I have nothing against Japanese cars but they just don't make cars I like. Two I looked at as possibilities were Toyota Avensis estate and Mazda 6 estate, both very nice cars but for me they have serious flaws.

We have tried those as well. The Avensis Tourer was a 1.8 petrol back in 2010 and it was rubbish. The elecric handbrake (which we like in the Skoda) was in the daftest place imaginable (behind the steering wheel). the engine had no go compared to the 1.6 TDCi Focus we had. Bought a Kia Ceed SW CRDi. The petrol Mazda 6 tourer was high on the list when we bought the Superb. It had a great spec but was not a good drive, seemed quite noisy and gutless and the space saver was over £400 extra. We have had 4 Nissans in the house and all have been 100% reliable but all were made oop north not in Japan.

I think I know why reliability survey 'firm' you are referring to, and if its the one offering after-market warranties,

Nothing to do with warranty company. Anyone could respond to the questions but I gave up when they asked "do you like the colour" and "do you like the shape" Who would buy a car they thought was hideous in a bad colour?

Edited by Avant on 18/07/2017 at 00:31

Essentially you're saying you keep a car for about 4 years, which, amazingly is when many of the recent VAG issues start to appear in very large numbers, unlike their Japanese counterparts which (like mine) are still going strong at that point and well beyond. I know you've previously said you like a new car more often than the likes of me and other Japanese car 'fans', but given you've been often making the case for VAG reliability (even for non-DSG cars), you could still have a wonderful, reliable and cheaper to run car that over its longer ownership period (say 7-10 years) than if you traded yours in etc every 4 years, given the amount lost in depreciation after 4-5 years is often minimal. Your reluctance to do so I think makes other BRs suspicious, given how you like to say how good they are. Just a thought

Here are the length of time and mileages we have coverd in the 7 VAG cars. Just remember that for 9 years we actually had 2 VAG cars on the drive.

Golf 3.5 years 48,000 miles

Golf 7.25 years 113,000 miles

Golf 5.75 years 60,000 miles

Golf 6.75 years, 63,000 miles

Polo 3.25 years, 30,000 miles

Leon 3.75 years, 27,000 miles

Superb, only bought it in march this year.

So the average ownership period is actually 5.04 years and the total miles covered approx 341,000. I personally think that is a decent enough time/distance to come to the conclusion they are OK.

I accept we have bought them all new but that is simply because of the poor used car experiences we had back in the 70's and once we could get on the new car ladder we found it little more expensive than the used car ladder. Higher depreciation, yes, but virtually zero repair costs which offset the depreciation to a great extent. The depreciation of the first 3 Golfs was also lower than other cars at the time but the 4th was pretty much on a par with other contemporary cars. We have always hammered out the best deal when buying which keeps costs low.

We have the cash to buy new and will keep doing so, no desire to save money buying used when a large number are traded due to issues. There are good ones out there but there are a lot of dogs and even franchised dealers will rob customers whenever they can.

I will always get a quote from a good, honest broker such as Carfile before I sign on any dotted line which also keeps costs down. They don't always work out cheaper but it costs nothing to find out. Examples are the first Micra, broker offering very little but local dealer gave us 30% on a brand new unregisterd car because they were overstocked. 1 Series BMW, dealer wanted £2000 more to swap than broker but as soon as I said I was off to the broker he turned the screen back, tapped the keys and by some mirracle came up with exactly the same price. But the broker saved us £2000 on the Leon and a similar amount on the Superb (we actually got the Superb via a broker from the same dealer but a different salesman).

If the site does not want comments from owners who buy new they should restrict posts to owners/buyers of older cars but how would that work when Honest John only tests new cars. Look at my experience on the Nissan Note site, said I liked the new car and was banned for potentially flamebaiting unhappy owners of older unreliable cars. Perhaps they should have studdied harder, worked harder, smoked less, drank less etc and then they would have been able to buy a better car instead of expecting a 10 years old car with umpteeen owners to be a paragon of reliabilty and satisfaction.

We did not have a VAG car from 2002 to 2013 for several reasons. We looked at them everytime we changed but they failed to match offerings from Ford, Nissan, BMW and Kia. As examples the Polo was almost 50% more expensive than the Micra and was poorly equipped and a slug since you only got the 50? PS engine at that price. The BMW 1 series cost about the same as a similar Golf yet was way better finished and equipped. The Mondeo and Focus both blew the current Golfs into the far distance as far as performance, finish, driving pleasure and equipment. When we bought the Kia Ceed SW we also tried the Passat Estate in 2.0 diesel 110 PS spec and the only thing that was better on the VW was the carpets.

2 years ago when we bought the wifes Note we looked at the Polo and Fabia. Both good cars but for our needs both fell way short of the Note in too many respects to warrant consideration. Add to that the deal we got made the Note far cheaper as well.

If we don't like VAG we will not buy them but the ones we have had have all been excellent.

For the record the only car we have sold because it was starting to show signs of unreliabilty and corrosion was the Bluebird at 7.25 years and 85,000 miles. I would have sold any of the others to a neighbour or friend without fear of upsetting them. That Bluebird ended up bodged on a back street car lot and looked imaculate (for a few months).

Edited by skidpan on 18/07/2017 at 14:45

Bit of VW Group bashing going on here

I've bought VW group cars for a few years as I prefer the seats/driving position being 6ft 4" and big (Although my best ever car was a Saab 9000cs!!)

Had a 1984 VW Polo 1.0 from new for 19 years and 135k miles - only issue a new clutch at 120k

Had a 1990 VW Passat 1.6td from 6 years old for a further 6 years - only issue a front drive shaft

Had a 2003 Skoda Superb1.9pd owned from 18 months old for over 10 years and 160k miles - very few issues (alternator@120k and driveshaft and suspension joints). it's still on its original DMF, clutch, battery, exhaust, EGR now nearing 200k miles(I know the new owner)

Own a 2001 Skoda Octavia1.4 (owned from new ) with about 123k miles - clutch needed last year

Own a 2014 Skoda Superb 1.4tsi(owend from 14months) with about 46k - faultless thus far

NB - all of mine have been manuals

PS I love the seats in a Volvo - for an equivalent age much more expensive though ( I do highish mileage and aim for Purchase/Capital cost averaging less that £100 month)

Edited by Big John on 18/07/2017 at 23:28

I agree, and thank you for producing the torque figures to back up your experience. There are quite a few on here who question the high praise given to VAG TSI engines - but that high praise is coming from those of us who drive them.

Driving in this country, 90% of the time you have to pootle. In everyday use SWMBO's current A1 1.4 is in a different league from the succession of Mini Coopers that she had before. And when you do have the opportubity to 'open up', the TSI isn't found wanting. And as I've said before, economy - in the 50s for any kind of long run - is better than my diesel Volvo.

Hi all

Apologies for the radio silence over the last week. I have been away on business and didn't have much time to check in on this thread.

I've poured through the replies on this thread and researched even further on the gearboxes. In the end, I think I will be going for a manual 1.4 TSI instead of a DSG. I'll probably be keeping the vehicle for a few years before I swap when the ol' PCP deal comes to a close so while it would all be covered within the warranty in case something went wrong with the gearbox, I'm just not up for the hassle of battling with the dealership every couple of months.

Thanks for all your input as it's helped me come clear cut decision.

Thanks!!

Agreed - it's a lovely engine. If you've definitely decided on the Golf, you'll be fine. If you're still looking for deals, it'll be worth investigating the mechanically identical SEAT Leon, Skoda Octavia and Audi A3 and see where the best deal is.

If you're going for a PCP, an Audi can be better value than you might think.