Not thought about the Berlingo, though I seem to recall it looks a bit like a van.

When/if you drive one, you'll find the van origins are very obvious. Not a great experience. I have just renewed my acquaintance with my father's Peugeot Partner Tepee, which is just a badge-engineered version of the Berlingo, and it's truly horrid compared to our CR-V - but also significantly cheaper.

Sorry, but I'd take one any day of the week over your CRV, or indeed, any other SUV.

There are more important things in life than a soft touch dashboard!

Agreed, and having a car that's pleasant to drive is one of them ;-)

It was OK on the motorway I grant you, but the way it crashes and bangs its way around on anything other than a smooth surface makes it tiring and irritating. The CR-V is our first SUV, having come from a Saab 9-5 estate, and it's quite different to the Saab. But I just can't hack the wobbling and crashing of the Partner off the motorway and around town. It's a van with windows. My father loves it, and I'm not disputing that it fulfils a purpose, but it's not my cup of tea.

The one I've been driving is a 2011 90bhp 1.6 diesel, in fact the engine is the best part of it! It's only covered around 30,000 miles in 6 years, but despite being the "diesel of doom" it has been absolutely no problem for my father. It has been regularly serviced, being a Motabilty car for my mother initially but my father bought it when she died and has kept it dealer-serviced since. I guess it's a bit of a sweeping generalisation to tar all these engines with the same brush, as there must be more good 'uns than bad 'uns, but you don't hear about the good 'uns.

Edited by Mike H on 15/06/2017 at 22:14

Edited by SLO76 on 20/06/2017 at 00:15

Thanks again. I understand the comments about the trade in price but cars like mine are still being offered privately for well for over a grand on Autotrader, and although I'm not daft enough to think that every price asked for is a price fulfilled, and I do understand that trade in is a very different animal to private sale, I still reckon £700 is below the level of reasonable bottom end for this model. It should have a full MOT by Friday, so I'll keep looking and if I don't sell it privately in the meantime I'll probably settle with anyone who can offer trade in around the grand mark. I'm 100 per cent sure such deals are out there.

I do understand what you mean about "price to change": a comparison between a lower trade in against a moderately priced car, as opposed to a generous trade in against the same car at a higher price is not necessarily a valid one. Perhaps my expectations have been unreasonably raised by my son's experience of trading in a 59 plate 1.4 Fiesta with over 100k on the clock and a damaged door for 2k against a 7k car. Must get a grip on reality, and do it quickly. ;0)

I was notified this morning that the DSG has been withdrawn from sale and is no longer in the picture, but in any case I'd already seen enough negative info about the DSG gearbox on Google to decide to steer clear of that model.

As for uprating the suspension on the Focus, good shout but then we get into the realms of "throwing good money after bad". We've talked at length about keeping this car for another 3 years until my finances change and we can consider one of those personal contract thingies on a new car (which I know do have their drawbacks). However, because of the hard ride (and sorry, but it IS hard for 'er indoors, even if not so hard for me), we've decided that "a leisurely determination to get a decent deal on a car at some time in the near future" is the best strategy, and in the meantime I'll do my best to swerve round as many potholes as I can (whilst driving with due care and attention, of course). Noted again about the Auris, and the other models mentioned, but I would still consider a low mileage auto as long as it was a genuine self-shift with a decent reputation, and nothing like the horrid pseudo-auto Easytronic box that I once had on an 04 Meriva.

Incidentally, SLO, you're absolutely right about the Focus steering. I haven't owned many cars in my 30 years of driving, perhaps a dozen at most, but this car kicks every single previous one into the dustbin in terms of the connection you feel with the road ( and I don't mean the jerk you feel as you pass over each individual lump of gravel). The Hyundai we drove the other day, with its light-footed impression of driving on ice rather than tarmac, brought that home to me, yet again.

Edited by argybargy on 20/06/2017 at 10:27

We had a 2005 Focus Mk2, standard suspension with 205 55 16 tyres and the ride was absolutely fine. It steered acurately. I had a BMW at the same time and the mags always go on about how well BMW's with RWD steer. In truth there was little difference between the steering on the 2 cars but the Focus rode way better.

We then had a 2010 Kia Ceed fitted with 225 45 17 tyres and the ride was noticably lumpier than the Focus. Put on the 205 55 16 winter tyres and the ride improved. The steering was fine but subtly different to the Focus. It was slightly lighter and on the 225 17" tyres it was very sensitve to road camber. On a motorway it was hardly noticable but on a more cambered A road it would pull in the direction of the slope. Change to the 205 16" tyres and the pull was less but still there. But it was not an issue, had it on other cars, you got used to it.

The 2013 Leon Mk 3 rode beautifully on the 205 55 16 tyres and it steered strait and true on all roads.

As for what your car is worth that is a simple question t answer, the most anyone will pay you for it. We all overvalue our cars but you have to be realistic. Dealers will often give you what appears to be a god price but that is only because they have overpriced the car they are selling. Buying the same car elsewhere for less and selling your car privately will no doubt give you a better deal.

Its the size of the cheque you write that matters not the £££'s you get for the old car.

I can recomment the Leon 1.4 TSi Mk 3 without hesitation. Brilliant performance, best I have ever owned for the real world and a genuine 45 mpg over the 4 years and 27,000 miles I ran it.

Edited by skidpan on 20/06/2017 at 11:31

On reflection and despite myself, I guess I can appreciate the dealer's approach to valuing a car with hardly any MOT. I know from previous experience of the car and from having it serviced recently by someone I trust that it has no major issues, but even if I communicated that to the dealer he couldn't possibly accept my assertion on face value. So he has to factor in the possibility of spending several hundred quid before being able to sell it on. Fair enough.

Once its had the test I'll keep looking and offer it up again for trade in when we find a car that we like; then, lest anyone be interested, report the nature of those offers on this thread. Just for info, like.

With a years Mot you'll almost certainly be able to get to £1,000 or very close to. It eliminates the risk for the buyer so if you're confident it'll pass easily then fire it through. I find social media a good source for selling cheap cars for free. Not the buy sell and swap pages which are populated by idiots wanting a £1500 car for £300 but a well written post on your own Facebook page or a family members of you don't have such a thing will often sell a good budget motor. A fair percentage of my sales are done via word of mouth via Facebook. They know if I sell it and it goes haywire I'll fix it or refund it without a fight unlike most small traders. Though to be honest I've cut way back on it now. It's just too hard to buy decent well maintained stock at sensible money and the two dealers I used to trade with have been bought over and the other closed down. The big chains won't deal direct with traders sadly. ;-)

Social media: good idea, and I might go down that road. I pride myself on the art of being fairly succinct in print, if not in the spoken word, so maybe I can concoct something not too long winded but still alluring to those wanting a car with concrete suspension. Thanks again for all your advice, which I did in the end take. ;0)

I've always found the 1.6 Focus a bit of a sod to sell. They're not very economical (often don't get much above 30mpg), not that fast and aren't particularly cheap to tax which puts buyers off.

They're not bad cars by any means but have to be priced well to sell.

.......this is for mrs argybargy.....why not try a cushion?

Did Ford firm up the suspension on Mark 2s? Our Focus is 7yrs older than this one and the ride and handling are both fine. The advanced (for its time) rear suspension is also a boon for the estate version with no intrusions into the load space.

Maybe indeed there is something of the "sports suspension" in the model that I have. My son briefly owned a Mark 1 Focus which I drove several times, and from memory the ride was a good deal softer than the feller I have now.

Mrs A did buy a cushion, but I think that must be made of concrete also because it ain't made much difference.

We have a 2010 Mk 2.5 Focus 1.6, it's been great over 5 years, needing nothing other than routine servicing. I've never found the suspension overly firm, it's on 16 inch wheels, in fact it has a better ride than our 58 reg Octavia and handles in a different league. But it is a bit noisy on harsh road surfaces, thouh not really any noisier than the Octavia. It's averaged 40 mpg in our hands, it's not fast neither does it get left behind, it's just what I would call a perfectly competent car and is very pleasant to drive. I would have another, except the latest 1.0 engines seem pretty weak on the reliability front.

By the way, I love the look of the Leon but know nothing about the car, performance, features or reliabiliity wise. However, given your recommendation, skidpan, I'll check out used examples on Autowhatsit.

The performance of the 1.4 TSi is outstanding by any standard. It simply flies in any gear with no effort. The 1.2 TSi is still very good, better than any conventional 1.6 litre. Ours averaged a genuine 45 mpg for the time we owned it.

Kit is good but not outstanding. We had the SE that had all the essentials and sensible 16" wheels. Models with the technology pack option got sat nav, DAB and LED headlights, nice but not essential really.

Reliability, almost 4 years and no issues at all.

The only reason we swapped was simple, we needed more space. The Leon estate with the same engine was at the top of the list but whilst it had a huge boot the rear space was the same as the hatch and fully loaded whilst adequate a bit more was desirable. main problem was the specs, to get the 150 PS engine mean't buying the FR which had lowered sports suspension and 225 45 17 tyres, 2 features we did not want. So we bought a Skoda Superb with the same engine and even more space for less money.

Almost 4 months later our Leon still appears to be for sale. The dealer we bought the Superb from only sells used Skoda's off the forcourt normally but tried the Leon for 2 weeks because of its excellent condition, low mileage and remaining Seat warranty. It did not sell at a very sensible £8700. Some very lucky punter will get themselves a very nice car.

2 things to look out for. Ensure it has a main delaer service history and has been on the fixed not flexible service schedule. There are service books with the cars, if the seller claims it all on computer walk away, they are hiding something.

SLO76 will probably remember the selling 'systems' that played on the typical fixation of customers on what their car was worth and their monthly payment budget. In a past life I was involved for a while with a couple of dealer groups that built their businesses - for a while - around them

None of the cars on display had prices on, even the new ones. The front line sales staff were not permitted to hand out official price lists, or to do a deal All the new cars on display had 'added value' rubbish such as pop up sun roofs, wheel arch garnishes (!), mud flaps, stick on coachlines etc.

All the sales staff needed to know was which car the customer was interested in, how much they wanted for their car, and what monthly payment the customer was happy with. Armed with this, the 'salesman' would trot off to the office and the sales manager and business manager would play around with the selling price (which could be tweaked up to £1,000 or more over list with the 'extras' ), the repayment period of the HP, and the APR (determining the monthly payment and the dealer finance commission).

Of course second hand car prices are very hard to compare anyway, so were the easiest to inflate.

Argybargy would have been offered £2,000 for his car, no question! Most customers would have signed the order before they ever saw the full invoice price which rarely bore any resemblance to the list price (which they hadn't seen either), or the amount they had borrowed.

Trying to have the conversation around "I just want to know your best price and the real value of my car to you" was literally impossible.

Apologies for the anecdote. Carry on.

Cheers for that, very interesting indeed.

There was a time, I admit, when the perceived beauty of my potential next purchase was likely to blind me to the sort of fiscal realities that tend to land on you like a ton of bricks the morning after what seems like the deal of the century, but which is in fact a ripoff.

Argybargy of yesteryear might have snapped off the hand that offered him 2k for a 1.25k car. Today's version would be more likely to smell a rat.

SLO76 will probably remember the selling 'systems' that played on the typical fixation of customers on what their car was worth and their monthly payment budget. In a past life I was involved for a while with a couple of dealer groups that built their businesses - for a while - around them

None of the cars on display had prices on, even the new ones. The front line sales staff were not permitted to hand out official price lists, or to do a deal All the new cars on display had 'added value' rubbish such as pop up sun roofs, wheel arch garnishes (!), mud flaps, stick on coachlines etc.

All the sales staff needed to know was which car the customer was interested in, how much they wanted for their car, and what monthly payment the customer was happy with. Armed with this, the 'salesman' would trot off to the office and the sales manager and business manager would play around with the selling price (which could be tweaked up to £1,000 or more over list with the 'extras' ), the repayment period of the HP, and the APR (determining the monthly payment and the dealer finance commission).

Of course second hand car prices are very hard to compare anyway, so were the easiest to inflate.

Argybargy would have been offered £2,000 for his car, no question! Most customers would have signed the order before they ever saw the full invoice price which rarely bore any resemblance to the list price (which they hadn't seen either), or the amount they had borrowed.

Trying to have the conversation around "I just want to know your best price and the real value of my car to you" was literally impossible.

Apologies for the anecdote. Carry on.

SLO76, just to add to my earlier acknowledgement an apology for not recognising that when you told me my car was next to worthless, you were referring to its short MOT status and not to the model in general. I quite clearly missed that.

And with that, I'll let this most interesting and helpful thread die a natural death.

Edited by SLO76 on 22/06/2017 at 00:01

12 month ticket in the onion bag today, with no advisories. ;0)

Might even hang onto the old lass (car) for a bit longer, and give buy the missus a season ticket for the bus.

Or more likely, continue to grunt sympathetically when she complains about the ride.

Oh, she can moan for Engerland (even though we're in Wales), and even manages to moan about me moaning, which is EXCEEDINGLY unfair.

Incidentally, I've just realised that Fred Flinstone has the same initials as Ford Focus, and Fred Flintstone's car had stone wheels.

Might explain a lot.