Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - 3uga

Have aa Ford Focus 2008 and the car recently melted the 4th turbo in less than a year. The main problem is with the vnt that gets deformed and loose, and eventualy hits the turbo breaking its metallic "wings".

It has been recently remaped with dpf off and egr off with a added 24hp

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - RobJP

Ever considered that remapping what is already a bit of a notoriously fragile engine to give even more power - and thus making it even more fragile - is a bad idea ? Especially considering the engine has nearly a decade of wear on it ?

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - 3uga

The engine is 226k km old and it is not fragile. The turbos on the other hand are poorly built.

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - RT

The engine is 226k km old and it is not fragile. The turbos on the other hand are poorly built.

At 226,000 km (140,000 miles) it's way past it's best.

What oil do you use? How frequently is it changed? Do you allow the engine to idle for a minute or two before switching off?

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - 3uga

I have a habbit o letting the car idle for 10-20 seconds before i go and usualy let it idle a minute with fan on HI and AC off before i shut the engine off just to get out as much heat as posible..

Untill the turbos started failing on me I used only Castrol Magnatec/Edge 5w30 A1/A5. The car had no propblems for 30k km with oil change anywhere between 8-10k. First turbo that had problems was due to banjo bolt filter, the turbo was reused after a good cleaning with solvents and a can of wd40 through the oil inlet and worked for a whole year and 16400km untill turbine wheel broke off the shaft. After that I started to use cheaper oils like Total Quartz 9000nfc with wich 2 turbos faild at around 4-6k each. Changend oil with this last turbo and got Eneos Sustina PAO base and got same 6k out of it. The problem is mechanical or electronical and nothing to do with the oil.

Oil related problems are seized turbos or have radial play. A melted VNT involves super hi temperatures.

I have a theory that I willing to put to the test. I think that one or more injectors do not work properly and inject way to much fuel. car has no vibrations but just out of curiosity I;m going to tkate the injectors out.

Edited by 3uga on 10/06/2017 at 00:22

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - galileo

Are the turbos standard OE ones or aftermarket pattern ones? Remapping for more power obviously means more fuel is being burnt and the design limits may be approached or exceeded at times (unless extra cooling has been installed as it should have been).

I worked at a turbo manufacturer for 36 years with the design and development engineers, material specification, tolerances etc were very critical.

We did not routinely supply units for passenger cars, the profit margin on these is much lower than for heavy duty truck/bus units but did experiment with car units at times for F1 and Indycar applications.

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - 3uga

Are the turbos standard OE ones or aftermarket pattern ones? Remapping for more power obviously means more fuel is being burnt and the design limits may be approached or exceeded at times (unless extra cooling has been installed as it should have been).

I worked at a turbo manufacturer for 36 years with the design and development engineers, material specification, tolerances etc were very critical.

We did not routinely supply units for passenger cars, the profit margin on these is much lower than for heavy duty truck/bus units but did experiment with car units at times for F1 and Indycar applications.

Turbo is oe GT1544v

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - galileo

Are the turbos standard OE ones or aftermarket pattern ones? Remapping for more power obviously means more fuel is being burnt and the design limits may be approached or exceeded at times (unless extra cooling has been installed as it should have been).

I worked at a turbo manufacturer for 36 years with the design and development engineers, material specification, tolerances etc were very critical.

We did not routinely supply units for passenger cars, the profit margin on these is much lower than for heavy duty truck/bus units but did experiment with car units at times for F1 and Indycar applications.

Turbo is oe GT1544v

Presuming this is a genuine new Garrett unit, it should be adequate for the standard engine, (even though you say these turbos are, in your opinion, poorly manufactured).

An additional 24 bhp must increase heat through the unit and operating turbo rpm, these are stresses not designed for and may well shorten turbo life.

Does Garrett's warranty on these turbos include use on re-mapped engines? Have you not approached them after these failures?

These turbos do fail on standard engines if the oil supply is restricted due to carbon in the oil feed pipe. Replacing a failed turbo it is essential that the entire oil supply system to the turbo is cleaned thoroughly, I think there are several posts on this.

Cyd has posted a sticky at the top of this forum on turbo care, good points in that, which you may already know, of course.

Edited by galileo on 12/06/2017 at 23:06

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - mcjiggs

As everyone in this thread has mentioned this is a s***show of an engine that cannot reliably run in its normal state never mind a remap.

There isn't any problem with the actual turbos its the oil feed. Since you have gone through 4 turbos in less than a year i have to ask whether the extensive cleaning required of the sump,intercooler etc..in the technical service bulletin was carried out

gikturbo.no/files/2012/07/1.6-PSA.pdf

and

autotechnician.co.uk/workshop-repair-1-6-tdci-turb.../

Garrett give a 12 month warranty on their turbo (not sure on the milage) but only if all the work in the links has been carried out. Im pretty sure a rempa will invalidate it anyway.

I've had this engine in a mazda so know more than I wish to know about the engine. It has also been talked to death in other forums

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - gordonbennet

mcjiggs, thanks for the links, the second especially interesting, so much for 2 years or umpteen thousands mile oil change intervals or whatever they currently suggest in order to outdo each other on minimal servicing...which, i hasten to add, i've always ignored completely, oil equals cheap, the alternatives are not... i agree completely with the oil service intervals suggested on that link with this engine.

I'm sure you've already seen these pics, but if you haven't:

www.assuredperformance.ie/

Bottom left, link for pdf file re PSA turbo failure, lots of pics and it really does make grim viewing, enjoy.

Edited by gordonbennet on 14/06/2017 at 19:32

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - skidpan

As everyone in this thread has mentioned this is a s***show of an engine that cannot reliably run in its normal state never mind a remap.

We had one of these engines in 110PS form in a C-Max. We had it 5 years and not a single issue. The chap that bought it from us (a mechanic at the local Kia dealer) still has it and its still fine. While we had it it was serviced every 12 months using the correct spec oil. No idea what the current owner has used but its obviously done its job.

Where I last worked we had well over 100 of these engines in Berlingo/Partner vans over a 12 year period. All did 150,000 miles before being swapped and not a single engine problem. For a short time we had Vauxhall Combo vans with the well respected 1700 Isuzu engine and no engine problems but one did suffer turbo failure when it was close to 150,000 miles. All have been serviced correctly and have led a hard life.

Proof its not such a bad old unit.

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - 3uga

Image available for one week from 19.06.2017. we.tl/uZq2FRIz6S

Turbo didn't die from oil starvation. VNT wa deformed from excesive temperature or a combination of high pressure and high temperature.

This is the original VNT made out of steel sheet, which to me is very fragile.

What I can't explain is why the VNT seem to be colapsed from the outside-in.
Turbo faild because of VNT breaking and hiting the turbo

Edited by 3uga on 19/06/2017 at 03:05

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - galileo

Image available for one week from 19.06.2017. we.tl/uZq2FRIz6S

Turbo didn't die from oil starvation. VNT wa deformed from excesive temperature or a combination of high pressure and high temperature.

This is the original VNT made out of steel sheet, which to me is very fragile.

What I can't explain is why the VNT seem to be colapsed from the outside-in.
Turbo faild because of VNT breaking and hiting the turbo

As said previously, remap for incresed power = increased fuel burnt = increased pressure and temperature.

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - 3puddings

I got rid of myt 1.6TDCI focus after 171,000 miles. The turbo first failed at anoy 106,000 miloes and I kept it going. It went through 2 more turbos before i got rid of it last year.

If it is the one with the PSA engineon it I would not throw any more money ar it and bypassing the DPF will only exaspiuate matters. Every mechanic I had work on it complained about this engine and to be honest you would be better well shot of the thing.

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - skidpan

I got rid of myt 1.6TDCI focus after 171,000 miles. The turbo first failed at anoy 106,000 miloes and I kept it going. It went through 2 more turbos before i got rid of it last year.

If it is the one with the PSA engineon it I would not throw any more money ar it and bypassing the DPF will only exaspiuate matters. Every mechanic I had work on it complained about this engine and to be honest you would be better well shot of the thing.

You "only" did 171,000 miles in and are still complaining.

No pleasing some people.

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - 3uga

I bought my car at 173k km and since October 2016, from aroung 206k km my car went throug 4 turbos, The las one was at 4k after remaping the engine and puting the new turbo.
Till now i have around 227k km and the last 3k were made with a turbo balanced with a file after VNT broke loose and hit the turbo.

Untill the turbo shatters....i'll be damn if i'm going to change it

Edited by 3uga on 21/06/2017 at 15:09

Ford Focus Estate 2008 1.6 tdci - VNT melting and going in the turbo - 3uga

Fuel injectors....damn fuel injectors

 

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