Vw - Avoide vague engines? - TopScot

Hi all. After having very bad luck with 2 hyundai i40s as a private hire taxi, I went for what I thought was the reliable vw cc. But have been horrified at sone of the stories I've been reading about the vw group. I thought VW TDIs were bullet proof? I've seen many private hire taxi skodas hit the half a million mile mark with no major problems. Is this vw group of the past?

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - Big John

The 2.0 CR diesel is capabe of very high mileages especially if you choose 10k service intervals and drive in a way that is compatibe with a DPF. Personally i'd avoid having the dieselgate mod applied.

My driving is not compatible with having a DPF so I've chose a petrol.

Personally I think the best car to own as a private hire taxi is a Toyota or Lexus hybrid

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - Stanb Sevento

The 2.0 CR diesel is capabe of very high mileages especially if you choose 10k service intervals and drive in a way that is compatibe with a DPF. Personally i'd avoid having the dieselgate mod applied.

My driving is not compatible with having a DPF so I've chose a petrol.

Personally I think the best car to own as a private hire taxi is a Toyota or Lexus hybrid

While in the main agreeing with this its not that straight forward. Its a variable service interval with many things being monitored by the car, number of cold starts, oil condition and many others and the car tells you when a service is needed. Speaking to the main dealer he says it not unusual for a customer expecting 20,000 miles to come in at less than 8000 miles complaining the car needs a service, it works both ways, I personally ( shock horror ) use the variable service but do an unofficial oil change myself every 6 months. Better than either option in my opinion and Im someone who verges on being anal about my cars maintenance.

“My driving is not compatible with having a DPF”

For ages Ive been trying to figure out where the boundary is between compatible and incompatible, the extremes are obvious but where is the tipping point. I bought my car against many peoples advice because I only do 7000 miles a year and do very little motorway driving. 25% urban 60% rural and 15% motorway is an estimate and touch wood so far has been perfect after 32 months. Very very few active regenerations but I do my best not to to interrupt it when one has started. Is the incompatible closer to the compatible than we think?

If I could make a request from car makers it would be that they put an indicator lamp on the dash to tell the driver the car wants to do an active regeneration so that you could make sure you gave it the opportunity, for mine speed over 38mph for 5 to 10 minutes. Most DPF problems come about when these conditions are not met or when the car is repeatedly switched off part way through a regeneration.

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - Engineer Andy

Its all well and good saying that you should give the car time to carry out its active regen, but most people don't have either the time or any way to do this if they are on the way to work, in traffic or on the clock for work purposes - we can't just 'drive around' all the time.

If you don't need to do over 20,000 miles a year mainly on faster-moving roads or lug very heavy loads/trailers/caravans around very regularly, then you don't NEED a diesel-engined car: the better fuel economy on medium to longer trips is more than outweighed by the far higher purchase and maintenance costs - many reports saying that the vast majority of modern diesel-engined cars require mileages well in excess of 75k - 100k miles to even break even, and that's without any major problems of the three-lettered acronym variety.

Its as simple as that. As such, the choice then is between a petrol hybrid and normally-aspirated/small engined turbo-petrol cars, dependent upon usage type and driving style.

The problem with buying especially second-hand diesel cars is that you cannot guarantee how the car was driven before you bought it, nor were they really designed for in-town use in slow-moving traffic - that, and the high levels of pollution they emit when doing so and its consequences, both to health and in the wallet, is also why hybrid petrol engined cars are so popular with taxi drivers in built-up areas.

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - Stanb Sevento

"Its all well and good saying that you should give the car time to carry out its active regen, but most people don't have either the time or any way to do this if they are on the way to work, in traffic or on the clock for work purposes - we can't just 'drive around' all the time."

Ive been getting an active regen every 550 to 750 miles and if I have to switch off I make sure the conditions are met on the return trip which happens anyway most of the time. Its hardly driving around all the time.

Petrol cars are not that much cheaper to buy. On my car, a Sharan the only petrol available is £750 less than than a diesel, and it sruggles to pull the 2 Ton weight up hills. The fuel saving on the Sharan even at my low mileage is at least £350 a year. The latest VW TSi petrol is priced mid way between the 1.6 and 2.0 L diesels. My diesel Sharan is still worth a good bit more than the petrol version.

If you run a big car the choice is not simple, there are very few petrol estate of MPVs. The Masda 6 estate is very nice but the 2.0 L petrol is very disapointing it needs a turbo, the Passat GTE is a dream but very expensive. What else is there? Seriously Ive been looking and the choice in petrol is very poor. Van drivers who work mainly in town are going to have problems I fear.

The point I am making is that I dont believe you need to be doing big mileages or blasting up a motorway for diesel to work not anymore anyway, a good mix works fine but confined to town and 30 limits is not.

Edited by Stanb Sevento on 26/05/2017 at 15:02

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - Manatee

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The point I am making is that I dont believe you need to be doing big mileages or blasting up a motorway for diesel to work not anymore anyway, a good mix works fine but confined to town and 30 limits is not.

I agree, Stan. But completing regens can be problematic is you have the wrong car.

A colleague of mine had a Qashqai 2.0 diesel, Her daily commute Mon-Fri was probably 20-25 mles each way, but that included a slow section of the M1 and crawling town traffic for the rest of it. Several times the light came on and she had to take it to the dealer for a forced regen. The first time they told her it was her fault, and gave her a photocopied sheet telling her to drive at 50mph for half an hour if the light came on again. Of course, when it did she couldn't get out of second gear for traffic. They took to charging her £100 a go.

To me, that is a car that is not fit for purpose.

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - Engineer Andy

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The point I am making is that I dont believe you need to be doing big mileages or blasting up a motorway for diesel to work not anymore anyway, a good mix works fine but confined to town and 30 limits is not.

I agree, Stan. But completing regens can be problematic is you have the wrong car.

A colleague of mine had a Qashqai 2.0 diesel, Her daily commute Mon-Fri was probably 20-25 mles each way, but that included a slow section of the M1 and crawling town traffic for the rest of it. Several times the light came on and she had to take it to the dealer for a forced regen. The first time they told her it was her fault, and gave her a photocopied sheet telling her to drive at 50mph for half an hour if the light came on again. Of course, when it did she couldn't get out of second gear for traffic. They took to charging her £100 a go.

To me, that is a car that is not fit for purpose.

Exactly my point. I would say that the price difference from petrol to diesel can vary quite considerably, and is much more so as you increase engine size, more than just due to the overall price of the car. The smaller-engined diesels aren't so much more than the petrol 'equivalents' (based on power, maybe, but the driving experience is often a lot different, as the diesel engine is heavier and needs to be worked harder to get off the mark, though may be better at motorway speeds for comfortable cruising), but its noticeable that most of the serious reliability problems involving diesel engines are related to the smaller ones.

The price difference for the 2 litre car engines is far more marked (I just looked up some for the Ford Focus and it was £1600). As I said, if you buy a diesel-powered car and use it mainly on short journeys (whatever the overal annual mileage), and to a lesser extent for annual mileages below 20k, then the downsides outweigh the upsides - the short journeys kill the emissions system, significantly reduces mpg (not warmed up and needs far more active regens to burn of heavy accumulations of soot, even worse for VAG cars caught up in the emissions scandal which were 'fixed'). This inevitably leads to huge bills if you keep the car over 4 years (its stupid, uniformed buyers that have kept second hand diesel cars' prices high, hopefully this will correct iteself soon once people are made aware of such problems).

Diesel cars that are bought for low annual mileages but that are run on longer distances and/or on fast-moving roads for each trip may suffer from less reliability issues, but because they do low mileages, the higher mpg effect over petrol engined cars is far smaller, especially when the higher longer-term running costs and purchase price is factored in. Its also the reason why I have, thus far, only bought proven Japanese chain-driven engined cars - far less long-term reliability issues and no cost of replacing the cambelt (not small). Its noticeable that those cars with small turbo-petrol engines also command a mich higher price premium (not quite as much as diesels) over normally asiprated ones. As I said before, each car has its own use and driving characteristics, and people should buy what suits that, not something that might on paper be great but in reality may be quite the reverse.

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - Stanb Sevento

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The point I am making is that I dont believe you need to be doing big mileages or blasting up a motorway for diesel to work not anymore anyway, a good mix works fine but confined to town and 30 limits is not.

I agree, Stan. But completing regens can be problematic is you have the wrong car.

A colleague of mine had a Qashqai 2.0 diesel, Her daily commute Mon-Fri was probably 20-25 mles each way, but that included a slow section of the M1 and crawling town traffic for the rest of it. Several times the light came on and she had to take it to the dealer for a forced regen. The first time they told her it was her fault, and gave her a photocopied sheet telling her to drive at 50mph for half an hour if the light came on again. Of course, when it did she couldn't get out of second gear for traffic. They took to charging her £100 a go.

To me, that is a car that is not fit for purpose.

Yes I can see there is a problem there. Poor woman, she has the wrong car and the only real solution is to change it. I’ll bet the seller did not discuss the issue with her at the point of sale. Perhaps that should be part of the advice to buyers, that driving in town or slow congested traffic must be balanced with an amount of faster free flowing driving.

Just spent a few days in a lighthouse in the north west of Scotland and the roads in the area are so different that it crossed my mind I could have a problem with my diesel. Once off the A roads there were 30 odd miles of narrow twisting undulating road where reaching 40 mph was a challenge followed by 13 miles of single track road where reaching 30 mph was a challenge and the last 3 miles were incredible, super narrow , walking pace bends and hills so steep you could not see the road through the front screen only clear blue sky. This area is diesel death I thought yet 90% of the cars in the area were diesel 4x4s. How do they do it? Is there some secret they have to survive this sort of driving. My car was fine but I was only there a few days.

Edited by Stanb Sevento on 27/05/2017 at 10:19

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - SLO76
"This area is diesel death I thought yet 90% of the cars in the area were diesel 4x4s. How do they do it? Is there some secret they have to survive this sort of driving. My car was fine but I was only there a few days."

Yes... they drive like lunatics. A tight road you'd naturally amble down at 30-40mph is a 70mph up on two wheels round corners race track to the locals. Even if old farmer Joe is a little slower in his Discovery or Shogun his young farmer son will soon clear the DPF out. Depending on how far off the beaten track you are the number of them who'll take a car to the pub then drive home again is pretty frightening still. I spent a weekend on Arran a while back and half the youngster that staggered out the pub at closing were climbing into motors.

Edited by SLO76 on 27/05/2017 at 10:49

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - Stanb Sevento
Yes... they drive like lunatics. A tight road you'd naturally amble down at 30-40mph is a 70mph up on two wheels round corners race track to the locals. Even if old farmer Joe is a little slower in his Discovery or Shogun his young farmer son will soon clear the DPF out. Depending on how far off the beaten track you are the number of them who'll take a car to the pub then drive home again is pretty frightening still. I spent a weekend on Arran a while back and half the youngster that staggered out the pub at closing were climbing into motors.

Well yes I did meet a couple af them, a middle aged gent in an X-Trail cought up and passed at what seemed like a suicidal speed and a little old lady in a Micra whos head only just cleared the dashboard came bombing round a bend in front. I got a wave and a big smile as I pulled into a passing place to let her through.

Edited by Stanb Sevento on 28/05/2017 at 11:09

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - badbusdriver

Hi all. After having very bad luck with 2 hyundai i40s as a private hire taxi, I went for what I thought was the reliable vw cc. But have been horrified at sone of the stories I've been reading about the vw group. I thought VW TDIs were bullet proof? I've seen many private hire taxi skodas hit the half a million mile mark with no major problems. Is this vw group of the past?

'I went for', implies you have already bought one. If that is the case, wouldnt it have been better to look into any reliability issues beforehand?

VW - Avoide VAG engines? - TopScot

I thought VW group was provan reliable technology. And after seeing first hand the mileages my co taxi drivers put on them vs the problems they get, this seemed to confirm this. It wasn't until I bought the cc, on paper at least this dosnt seem so. Which is rather surprising.

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - oldroverboy.

Hi all. After having very bad luck with 2 hyundai i40s as a private hire taxi, I went for what I thought was the reliable vw cc. But have been horrified at sone of the stories I've been reading about the vw group. I thought VW TDIs were bullet proof? I've seen many private hire taxi skodas hit the half a million mile mark with no major problems. Is this vw group of the past?

Out of the frying pan....

But has it gone awry already? or are you just reading the horror stories and suddenly thinking Caveat emptor...

Which engine... 2.0 is better than the 1.6.

Edited by oldroverboy. on 23/05/2017 at 20:38

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - Avant

Don't sound so surprised, Ciaran: there were over 50 posts on your previous thread!

There was praise as well as blame for VAG in that thread - the essential point being that these engines need to be properly looked after to be reliable. If you buy new, all well and good; but if you're buying used, you certainly need evidence of FSH and ideally some idea of how the car has been treated by previous owner(s).

The latter of course can be difficult, when the buyer simply sees a shiny, valeted car on a dealer's forecourt.

Does anyone have some tips for buyers, other than service history, on what signs there can be of care or neglect? I can think of:

- Condition of car before being valeted - if it's possible to see it

- Presence or absence of interior stains, scratches and torn trim

- Cleanliness of boot and engine compartment

- Condition of carpets

Any more?

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - SLO76
While looking at the general condition is important you would be amazed at the job a good valeting squad and body shop can do to a motor. We frequently bought in or had motability stock returned to us and you'd be horrified at the state of most of it before they were tidied up. Thus the reason why I always grin when I hear a salesman talk up a prospective purchase as having been ex motability. But to look at post workshop you'd think it was a tidy low mileage motor with a full history and not the Dukes of Hazard extra it was when it first arrived.

While we had our own insurance approved body shop to fix them properly few smaller dealers do so you need to look for poor quality paint repairs, it'll be flaking off in no time and off colour panels don't half stand out to the sharp eye. Backstreet dealers are notorious for cheap poor quality paint. Check the service history is up to date and has been done annually and not biannually as per some buisiness use contracts stipulate. It must have fresh oil at least once a year, obviously it'll be much more often as a taxi. Plus it needs a dealer or genuine specialist history, these are complex motors and the wrong oil kills them. They need looked after by someone who knows what they're doing.

Any doubts and I'd call the servicing dealer to see if they have actually seen the thing. Faked service histories are much more common than people know, I've seen it done, not by myself or anywhere I've worked but cars I've eyeballed going through the ring with missing or patchy service histories have appeared for sale shortly after at Dodgy Joe's now mysteriously with a fully stamped up service book.

Pay extra for an approved used VW instead of buying from a non-franchise dealer if you want the best.

Edited by SLO76 on 23/05/2017 at 23:36

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - Avant

"annually and not biannually..."

Just for clarity, SLO - do you mean bi-annually (twice a year) or biennially (every other year)?

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - SLO76
Just my appalling spelling again Avant. Yup, I do mean biennially. Though it wouldn't be a negative to find one that's had fresh oil twice a year but that's just asking too much.

Edited by SLO76 on 24/05/2017 at 00:21

Vw - Avoide vague engines? - CHarkin

Does anyone have some tips for buyers, other than service history, on what signs there can be of care or neglect? I can think of:

- Condition of car before being valeted - if it's possible to see it

- Presence or absence of interior stains, scratches and torn trim

- Cleanliness of boot and engine compartment

- Condition of carpets

Any more?

I would advise caution with any car affected by the emissions fix, 2009 to 2014 cars, Some of these cars are adversly affected by the new software and do not drive well, you need a long test drive, you can however be resonably confident that the DPF, EGR valve and injectors are all within spec because they will not apply the fix if they are not. If a car seems overly noisy, lacking low rev power or has an eratic idle walk away.

If I was spending a lot on a used Diesel I would invest in a diagnostic check and an ash loading reading for the DPF, its the only real way of telling the condition of the emissions hardware. A dealer may charge for this but if they are getting a sale out of it they may not, but its the only way to be sure. A car run on quality fuel with the correct oil and driven in a suitable manner will have a reading of around 10% at 100K miles. If its much higher that this propotionaly walk away.

 

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