No scrappage scheme - brum

Theres not going to be a diesel scrappage scheme after all. Apparently it would cost a Brexit amount of money (£60+ billion ???). Instead an immediate demand has been issued for local authorities to create another 21 clean air zones in addition to the 5 already mandated by whatever means necessary (read tax, charge, penalty or ban) asap.

Welcome to the future.

Edited by brum on 05/05/2017 at 18:02

No scrappage scheme - SLO76
The last scrapage scheme was largely a non-event as far as customers and tax payers were concerned. All the major firms soon upped their prices by around the £1k they had to contribute to it. The only genuine bargains were the likes of Kia and Hyundai who sold a lot of metal as a result.

My parents were early to take advantage of it, buying a Honda Jazz at £9995 minus £2k for a 14yr old Merc C Class worth £700-£800 but within a few weeks the screen price of the Jazz had jumped to £11k. Ford had already upped the Fiesta which I'd pointed him towards so it was ruled out immediately.

The same thing would happen, as always when subsidies are ill-advisedly poured into anything. Firms milk it for all they can. Look at the price of solar panels which crashed after feed in tariffs were slashed. As a tax payer I'm against any form of scrapage scheme.
No scrappage scheme - Terry W

Scrappage schemes crudely distort the market - it's not clear where the benefit lies as list price, discounts, trade in values etc all impact on the deal. The only certainty is that the government/taxpayer will contribute some money to the deal as an incentive.

I assume cars not compliant with at least Euro 4 may be involved (pre 2005). Any later and the cost would be prohibitive. In the normal course of events these cars will either be scrapped, or sold on in the next few years for peanuts.

Therefore the only real legislative change required is a large increase in annual road tax for any subsequent owner. Current owners will be insulated from any impact. Over approx 5 years all but a few polluting vehicles will be 17+ years old and probably off the road anyway.

No scrappage scheme - colinh

It doesn't seem to be as clear cut:

Auto Express:

"A "targeted" diesel scrappage scheme could be introduced by individual UK local authorities to help curb diesel emissions in polluted areas"

Autocar:

"The Government is proposing a number of measures to reduce emissions levels in the UK, including changes to motorway speed limits, a scrappage scheme and the widespread introduction of clean air zones."

No scrappage scheme - alan1302

Theres not going to be a diesel scrappage scheme after all. Apparently it would cost a Brexit amount of money (£60+ billion ???). Instead an immediate demand has been issued for local authorities to create another 21 clean air zones in addition to the 5 already mandated by whatever means necessary (read tax, charge, penalty or ban) asap.

Welcome to the future.

Nothing had been decided - it's out for consultation.

No scrappage scheme - Big John

During the last scrappage sceme (that was encouraging people to buy a low CO2 diesel!) two things cancelled out the available scrappage cash :-

  • Manufacturers quickly edged the list prices up
  • Further discounts weren't usually available(eg you couldn't use a broker discount combined with the scrappage)

It was usually cheaper to still use an online broker and sell/trade in the car unless you were buying a car that didn't have any further discounts anyway - eg at the time Hyundai i10 or Honda Jazz

Cost to the taxpayer? - I don't understand this? Lets presume it's £2000 of scrappage cash against a new car - the VAT returned on said new car would probably yield more than this

Edited by Big John on 06/05/2017 at 11:09

No scrappage scheme - Manatee

Cost to the taxpayer? - I don't understand this? Lets presume it's £2000 of scrappage cash against a new car - the VAT returned on said new car would probably yield more than this

Not if the car would have been bought anyway. My guess is that a lot of fairly well off (as in they had the money in the bank to write a cheque for a new car) seized the opportunity to replace their older second cars with a subsidy.

The new car might be bought sooner, or sold at a higher price which would generate extra VAT which would give some offset.

No scrappage scheme - Wackyracer

I doubt there will be a scrappage scheme this time, they can just keep squeezing diesel car owners financially until it becomes uncomfortable for us to continue driving them. They have already talked about additional fee's on the congestion charges and parking charges for diesels.

It worked with diesel commercial vehicles in London, a friend of mine had to get rid of his van because of the low emission zone charge for older diesels.

No scrappage scheme - glidermania

I dont see why there should be a scrappage scheme. Seems like everyone wants something for nothing nowadays. Why the heck should I and others pay for people to have their car taken off the road?

I dont buy this everyone was encouraged to buy diesel so that's why they should be paid to take them off the road.

No scrappage scheme - Big John

Not if the car would have been bought anyway. My guess is that a lot of fairly well off (as in they had the money in the bank to write a cheque for a new car) seized the opportunity to replace their older second cars with a subsidy.

The new car might be bought sooner, or sold at a higher price which would generate extra VAT which would give some offset.

Also - if you've got the money your'e less likely to have a 10 year old car. Most of the people I know who used the scrappage scheme last time wouldn't have bought a new car without the scheme .

Personally I still think on many cars it was possible to get better discounts via companies like carfile / drivethedeal etc than the saving you would have got for scrappage. One bad side effet of the previous scheme was to put list prices up on some cars

No scrappage scheme - Sofa Spud

We're in a time of rapid change in vehicle technology and so it's probably not a good time to introduce a diesel scrappage scheme. Electric cars are seen as the future now that 200 mile+ ranges are coming in for ordinary electric cars like the Renault Zoe and Chevrolet Bolt. Other manufacturers will have to catch up with this benchmark figure. The Tesla Model 3 will be launched soon. So in a couple of years the car market might be very different from now.

That would be the time to introduce a diesel scrappage scheme - when there is a big enough choice of electric cars available to limit scrappage to people replacing their diesel car with an electric one.

By then the idea of a scrappage scheme allowing people to replace their old diesel car with a petrol one might look very short-sighted and feeble.

No scrappage scheme - Manatee

I wonder whether the putative scappage scheme would facilitate the buying of a new, Euro6, diesel.

I don't know about the NOx, but the inside of the tailpipe on my Euro5 Outlander was black; that on the 2016 Euro6 version is completely clean. Not a smudge.

No scrappage scheme - lordwoody

"All the major firms soon upped their prices by around the £1k they had to contribute to it. "

I don't believe this, and the logic doesn't make sense. I used the scheme to trade in an old Saab , giving me £2k towards a Polo, which I still have, 7 years later. I think everyone may have noticed and there would have been an ensuing uproar, if new car prices rose £1000 overnight just to accomodate the relatively few scrappage cars, compared with overall new car sales. Perhaps you can provide a link to prove the veracity of the story?

No scrappage scheme - Big John

"All the major firms soon upped their prices by around the £1k they had to contribute to it. "

I don't believe this, and the logic doesn't make sense. I used the scheme to trade in an old Saab , giving me £2k towards a Polo, which I still have, 7 years later. I think everyone may have noticed and there would have been an ensuing uproar, if new car prices rose £1000 overnight just to accomodate the relatively few scrappage cars, compared with overall new car sales. Perhaps you can provide a link to prove the veracity of the story?

I was half looking for a car at the time so remember some of the prices increasing. My 2001 Octavia wasn't quite old enough for the previous scrappage scheme although I'm glad it wasn't as it is still going strong and rust free at 16 years old:-

www.parkers.co.uk/car-buying/2009/buyers-set-for-m.../

You got the best scrappage deals at the time against cars that were already reasonably priced and you couldn't normally secure a further discount. Three people at work secured reasonable deals buying a Nissan Note, Hyundai i10 and a run-out model of the Citroen Picasso

Edited by Big John on 07/05/2017 at 11:06

No scrappage scheme - SLO76

"All the major firms soon upped their prices by around the £1k they had to contribute to it. "

I don't believe this, and the logic doesn't make sense. I used the scheme to trade in an old Saab , giving me £2k towards a Polo, which I still have, 7 years later. I think everyone may have noticed and there would have been an ensuing uproar, if new car prices rose £1000 overnight just to accomodate the relatively few scrappage cars, compared with overall new car sales. Perhaps you can provide a link to prove the veracity of the story?

The only firms who didn't were Hyundai and Kia and thus the reason why there are so many Picantos, Cee'd's, i10's and i20's on the roads from that period. We looked at a fair number before my folks settled on a UK built Jazz, largely because Ford has rocketed the price of the Fiesta. Within months the Jazz had also jumped by £1,000. Though the later car did have stability control as standard. This wouldn't ass £1k to the cost though.
No scrappage scheme - brum

During the 2009 scrappage scheme, my car was written off in an accident, and I was forced to buy a new car without a trade in. I found cash discounts that were plentiful pre scrappage had suddenly vanished. I eventually bought a new Fabia, which prior to the scheme were always 20% off for cash. I eventually got £500 (5%) off by accident due to a newly employed young salesman who failed to check properly with his manager who later told me that he could have sold the car at list as there were more buyers than cars.

So yes the £2000 scrappage was more than paid for by higher prices, indeed many dealers made bumper profits.

No scrappage scheme - gordonbennet

I think the massive discounts were removed because they'd sold off most of the overproduction of the previous 2 years, and weren't going to get caught like that again with dis or partly used airfields covered in thousands of new and nearly new defleeted cars that they were desperate to shift.

We all recall the bargains that could be had around 2008, though how something that still costs £thousands and loses money day after day for as long as it lasts could ever be called a bargain is another question.

 

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