Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

Wed 15 Mar 2017 10:50

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

Hello,

I'm thinking about trading my current car in for a brand new or nearly new car and would like some advice about what I can expect with regards to any movement on the list price of the car I'm considering and the best way to negotiate.

My current car is a 2012 Maxda MX-5 Mk3 with 29000 miles.

I want to buy a Mazda CX-3 Sport Venture either brand new or nearly new but I'm picky about the model/colour I want.

I'd rather trade in my current car as I'm not comfortable selling it off my drive.

I'm open to consider PCP or I can get a bank loan for the difference in price between my trade in and the new one.

How should I handle this?

May thanks.

(Be gentle..) :)

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Wed 15 Mar 2017 11:28

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - RobJP

The good news : it's spring. Which means that prices for convertibles are currently climbing, and will do so for another 2-3 months.

The bad news : no trader is going to allow for that fact. They'll mmm and ahh, and try to get it off you cheap. Hell, it's business, not personal. So if you want to get the best price for it, you'd need to sell it privately.

You can go to webuyanycar, and get a rough value there. It's useful as a baseline negotiating tool.

Regards the new car, you need to go to drivethedeal, coast2coast, etc. and see what they'll quote you as discount on the price on a new car.

Then you've got 2 rough figures : what your car is worth, and what the new car will cost.

As to PCP, etc. well, that all depends on whether you want to own the car in the long term or not, and how much will be on finance, and what sort of interest rate will the finance be at, and ... well, too many factors, really.

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Wed 15 Mar 2017 12:21

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

Thanks Rob.

I wish there was just a price and you paid it. It would make my life easier. I have an idea that the dealer will see me coming a mile away and will be rubbing his hands with glee.

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Wed 15 Mar 2017 12:54

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - RobJP

Actually, it may well be the other way round, and you should psychologically approach it as such.

1. You have a convertible to sell, and the nice summer days are just around the corner.

2. You want to buy a new car, just when the car tax changes have made it harder for dealers to sell new cars - remember, dealerships HAVE to take a certain number of cars each month / quarter, if they take more they get bonuses. You, walking in for a brand new car when everyone else is after nearly-new cars (that come under the old car tax system) makes you valuable.

So YOU are in the driving seat. Hey, you say to the dealer, whilst the CX-3 is nice, I don't have to buy one. "A Qashqai would do instead - in fact I'm going down the road to the Nissan dealership have a look at them after I've been here. I hear they're doing really good offers right now".

Whether it's true or not is another matter entirely. But it's a big stick to wave around and get attention with. So use it.

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Wed 15 Mar 2017 12:57

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - RichardW

There is such a price - it's called the list price! The dealer would love you to walk in and offer to pay that.

It will almost certainly be cheaper to finance it from anywhere except the dealer - a PCP will appear cheaper, but that's because you are not actually buying it. It was said here a couple of weeks ago to lead the dealer on that want a finance deal and negotiate the price on that, and then go away 'to think about it', and organise your own finance.

Looking up a price from drive the deal first will give you a starting point for the negotiation - you can disarm the sales man by saying DTD will do it for X.

If you've not bothered about owning it, and want to change it in 3 years or so, then cost out leasing it. Lingscars has good prices and service - just wear your sunglasses when you look at her website!

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Wed 15 Mar 2017 13:06

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - SLO76

Set a weekend by and get out shopping. Let the dealers compete for your business and don't be afraid to tell the occasional wee white lie about what another dealer has offered you for your car.

This is certainly the time to be selling a convertible and assuming your MX5 is a 1.8 SE, has a full dealer history and requires no paint it's worth between £7,500 and £8,000 trade with dealers typically retailing around £9-£9.5k. You might get more, especially at a Mazda dealer.

I'd stick to main dealers who've the best stock in late model cars like this and it's worth asking about deals on a new cars as finance is often subsidised by the manufacturer with manufacturer deposits etc that you can hoover up then settle off the finance by taking out a low rate bank loan but it all depends on what's on the table at the moment.

16 plate 2.0 SE's with nav seem to start around £14.5-£15k and you can get bank loans for sums over £7.5k from 2.9% APR right now so there's never been a better time to borrow. I recently took out a credit card with a £5.5k limit and 0% on purchases over 29mths. Could be a good way to go if you can get a high enough limit but again you need to visit the dealers to find out and don't be afraid to travel. Watch for dealers quoting finance in the flat rate too, this is an old trick.

If you get a deal at one on a new car then get on the phone to others within reasonable range to see if anyone will better it then ask your nearest dealer to match the deal. They usually will.

Edited by SLO76 on 15/03/2017 at 13:09

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Wed 15 Mar 2017 13:09

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

All good advice. Thank you.

My MX-5 is the 2.0l Venture Edition.

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Wed 15 Mar 2017 13:36

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - SLO76

Nice model and certainly worth £500-£1k more. Bargain hard and it's a wise time to offload it as prices will be put under pressure as early Mk IV's start to come onto the forecourts.

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Wed 15 Mar 2017 14:25

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - pd

The trade guide price on your car (the MX-5) from CAP is about £7800.

Brokers seems to be offering discounts on the CX-3 of about £2500 - which sounds a lot but isn't compared to some manufacturers so it is evidently selling OK.

Therefore a "good" deal would be about £2000 off list or £2000 on top of the £7800 or a combination of the two.

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Mon 20 Mar 2017 20:22

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

Me again..

Went to have a look at the CX-3 on Sunday and it didn't set me alight. The route to the Nissan dealer which was the next port of call on my agenda took me past Mercedes Benz and I went in to have a look and bought a 2014 C180 Coupe AMG Sport instead!

They gave me £9300 for my MX-5 but didn't adjust the screen price on the Merc but I'm happy with the deal I got. I went for a PCP over 36 months at £190 a month. It's the first dealership I've been in where I felt like I had actually been sold a car.

Collecting on Thursday.

Thank you for your advice :)

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Mon 20 Mar 2017 21:22

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - 72 dudes

Great choice Vermillion! Don't think you'll regret it one bit.

Servicing and maintenance will be costly, so once the warranty is up, search yourself out an independent MB specialist. Not sure though if the PCP deal will tie you into the MB dealership.

I also went from a MK3 MX5 (1.8) to a Merc, an SLK350 in my case. I kind of miss the go-cart nature of the MX5, but the SLK is in a different league with regard to feel and quality.

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Mon 20 Mar 2017 21:38

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - SLO76

Nice car, quite like the look of that generation of C Class and should be reliable with the petrol engine. As long as you don't mind the harder AMG ride quality but coming from a sporty two seater I doubt you will. Good choice and top dollar for your wee Mazda. But I hope you checked the rate the PCP is at. Dealers often bump up the interest on PCP's to boost commission.

Don't scrimp on servicing as resale values are very dependent on dealer or genuine specialist histories.

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Tue 21 Mar 2017 09:38

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

Thank you. I'll admit, I'm quite excited.

The interest rate for the PCP is 9%. I'm going in to sign the papers this evening.

Am I right in thinking that I can clear the loan whenever I want? Are there any disadvantages to doing that?

I've been shopping around for GAP insurance, too. Mercedes quted me £399 for three years and I nearly fell off my (extremely comfortable and very well padded) chair. The cheapest quote I've had is £106 for three years. Is there anything I need to bear in mind about that or should I just go for the cheapest?

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Tue 21 Mar 2017 09:52

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - RobJP

9% ! I assume the salesman was wearing a pear of tights over his head !

If you haven't signed any paperwork as yet, then you need to go in hard now, and get that rate reduced before you sign on the dotted line.

You can get bank loans for 3-4%.

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Tue 21 Mar 2017 09:59

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

Yes, my bank will let me have a loan for 4% (or so) but over three years the payments will be £330 instead of £190 because I'll have to borrow the whole difference between the trade in price and the sale price whereas the PCP means I'm only paying £190 a month with an optional payment at the end if I decide to keep it.

That's a big difference to find along with all the other running costs.

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Tue 21 Mar 2017 10:14

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - SLO76

In the long run it'll be cheaper taking out a bank loan despite those higher monthly payments because after 3yrs you'll own a car worth a fair bit of money instead of having nothing to show after 3 years of payments, even if you take it over a longer term to reduce the payments, say 5yrs. You'll have the flexibility of being able to sell the car or pay off the loan at any time.

However if you do want to stick with the PCP you really need to get that interest rate down, it's too high. Have you already signed the agreement? You can get loans of £7.5k and above from as low as 2.9% APR right now.

Here's another option. Take out a Sainsbury's credit card interest free on purchases for 29mths. I don't know what sort of limit you'll get, it depends on your circumstances and the garage will charge a small fee for paying by credit card but refuse to pay too much, it should only be a small amount which covers the fee from the card provider and nothing more. You also have added legal protection by paying with a credit card.

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Tue 21 Mar 2017 10:20

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

Is it possible to negotiate the rate at this stage? Do people do it and have success?

I can borrow the money interest free from my parents but I don't want to increase my monthly outgoings too much.

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Tue 21 Mar 2017 11:05

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - RobJP

I know someone who was initially quoted 8.9% on their finance deal. When it came to signing the paperwork, they simply said that the rate was too high, and unless it was brought down to something closer to the open market rate then they would not be signing it.

The eventual rate was 5.9 %

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Tue 21 Mar 2017 11:26

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

That's very interesting.

Luckily, it's my mum who is giving me a lift there tonight (she's meeting me at thye station after work or I wouldn't be able to get there before they close) and she is a better negotiator than me.

I'll let you know if we have any luck.

Thank you

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 09:13

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

OK, papers signed.

The APR was 8.9% but what I hadn't understood on Sunday was that only £8300 of the £9300 they gave me for my car was used as a deposit and they were going to give me £1000 cash back so when I collect the car tomorrow, they will give me a cheque for £2000 (made up of the cash back and the £1000 deposit I paid on Sunday).

I suppose I could put this back into the pot (this is allowed) but I have £1000 outstanding on a loan so I might use it to pay that off.

I can clear the whole lot whenever I want so I think I'm happy with the overall deal.

Can't wait to get in and start driving.

Thank you for all your help and input.

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 10:18

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - SLO76

So they handed you £1,000 back and then made you borrow £1,000 at 8.9% APR that you didn't require... you're now paying even more! This deal makes little sense.

Where's the other £1,000 cash back coming from? If this is a used car offer then it means you've overpaid for the car too. Dealers do not have £1k to hand back if the car is priced correctly.

This deal is overcomplex and I believe you've been conned into borrowing more than you need and at a higher APR than you should have paid.

Take out a low rate loan or beg from the parents instead. It always amazes me that people don't shop around for finance.

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 11:14

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

Yes, I said I was a novice, didn't I?

So, I called Mercedes Finance and they don't have my agreement on their system yet but have said I can do a part mayment of £2000 to reduce my interest payable. I'll call them early next week to arrange this. I will then borrow the money I need to pay off my £1000 loan from my parents interest free.

I don't know why they structured it like that. I expect it's something to do with the commission the dealer will earn from the finance agreement.

You really have to have your wits about you, don't you?

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 11:50

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - SLO76

As a salesman I often earned more from the finance deal than selling the car itself and I wasn't one for going in as heavy as others. Our sales manager often criticised me for not trying to upsell finance, with him frequently offering such cash back deals and telling punters to keep their money in the bank for a rainy day and borrow instead. Made no sense to me, from the punters perspective and I was red in the face when he tried to offer it to my punters, none of which took him up on it. This is part of the reason I left the trade, I hated the big push for finance sales. Next to useless GAP insurance, PPI, cash back deals etc etc. I enjoyed selling the cars themselves.

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 12:36

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

I was going to buy GAP insurance. Should I not?

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 17:25

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - SLO76

I was going to buy GAP insurance. Should I not?

Read the terms of the product. It is generally a far better thing than it was in my day but some policies only cover the difference between what you owe on a vehicle and what an insurer would pay out in an accident and not a replacement with a vehicle that cost what you initially paid for it and thus is of no worth to you at all since you're putting down a large deposit. If you want it anyway then shop around for it as the dealer will be hoovering an 100% mark up on the policy.

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 11:48

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Andrew-T

Sounds to me like one of the various ways dealerships have of playing with the figures to look good to head office, or reduce their VAT liability, or maximise commissions, or whatever other reason .....

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 13:22

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

Thinking laterally, is there any good reason why I can't just do the following?

1) Pay one payment on the PCP (to get the cash back)

2) take out a loan from either my parents or the bank for the full amount owing but over five years.

3) After three years I'll be in the same position with the car as I would have been with PCP in that I'll still owe money on the car BUT I can still sell it or part-exchange it if I want to.

Is there anything I'm missing?

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 13:31

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - RobJP

Regards GAP, have a word with ALA or Frank Pickles (ALA is recommended by HJ, and I've used Frank Pickles).

I believe ALA do a little bit of extra discount if you mention you got their details from the HJ website ...

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 13:32

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

Thank you. :)

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 14:38

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - daveyjp

This post demonstrates superbly how negotiating a car deal which includes trade ins and PCP can become an absolute minefield very quickly if you don't know from the start what YOUR terms are.

You negotiate the trade in, you then have to think about screen price and cost to change, then PCP deposit is thrown in the mix, then the PCP term, then the PCP interest rate and as a final cherry on top £1,000 'cash back' appears from somewhere.

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 15:03

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

I'm a lesson to you all.. :)

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 17:21

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - SLO76

Thinking laterally, is there any good reason why I can't just do the following?

1) Pay one payment on the PCP (to get the cash back)

2) take out a loan from either my parents or the bank for the full amount owing but over five years.

3) After three years I'll be in the same position with the car as I would have been with PCP in that I'll still owe money on the car BUT I can still sell it or part-exchange it if I want to.

Is there anything I'm missing?

It's not a genuine cash back deal. He's making you borrow £1,000 more and handing it back to you. Not sure where the other £1,000 is coming from but I suspect he's added it to the price of the car so in total you are now borrowing £2k more than you need to. Be careful with the terms of said PCP as often you are limited as to how much you can pay back early in order to stop people from hoovering genuine manufacturer sponsored cash back deals. This however isn't one of them, it's a case of adding £2k to the finance deal so that he makes extra commission then handing it to you to sit in your bank making nothing. If there's no or only a small deposit I'd reverse out of this deal if I were you. Your wee Mazda is a more reliable and fun to drive motor anyway.

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 17:49

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - skidpan

£8300 of the £9300 they gave me for my car was used as a deposit and they were going to give me £1000 cash back so when I collect the car tomorrow, they will give me a cheque for £2000 (made up of the cash back and the £1000 deposit I paid on Sunday).

Exactly the same when I bought the Seat Leon on a 4.9% PCP and the Skoda on a 0% finance deal.

Its because they have to finance a certain percentage, with Skoda and Seat it was 70%. In both cases my PX was worth more than the max 30% deposit so they simply returned the difference together with the deposit I left when I signed for the car.

With the Leon there was a £2000 manufacturer contribution so I waited a week, cancelled the PCP, paid it off and kept the £2000.

With the Skoda its 0% so no point in paying off early and there was no contibution with the 0% finance deal. There was a PCP available with a £2000 deposit contribution but buying through a broker the discount was £1800 lower so no point bothering.

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Wed 22 Mar 2017 18:09

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - SLO76

Good point from skidpan there. It could be that he has to finance a certain minim percentage to offer a PCP but the wording of this deal doesn't sound right and it won't be a manufacturer sponsored cash back offer since it's a used car. I'd love a wee look at that order form and finance agreement.

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Thu 23 Mar 2017 20:15

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

Is there an easy way to let you see it?

I had to get rid of the Mazda. My partner's head touched the roof...

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Thu 23 Mar 2017 20:16

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

The other £1000 is the deposit i paid on Sunday.

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Thu 23 Mar 2017 21:45

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - SLO76

So he's effectively handing it and £1k from your trade in back then making you borrow it at again at an uncompetitive rate. Really not a good deal at all. You will end up paying far more than you need to, there's no cash back at all, and on that note I'm by commenting further as you have set your mind on this poor value deal by the sounds of it so I'll wish you the best of luck with your new toy I hope it gives many years of enjoyment and I hope your ears are still ringing when you go to buy again next time.

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Fri 24 Mar 2017 08:55

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

What makes you think I'm going to stay with the deal?

I have already asked (upthread) about the viability of borrowing the money myself over five years (effectively doing a DIY PCP). Nobody replied.

I've decided to wait until the £2000 hits my account (5 working days) then I will re-finance using my bank.

I completely agree with you about the deal I got, it isn't good and I am planning to do something about it.

I really don't know where you got the idea I wasn't listening. I even asked about sending you a copy of the paperwork for you to look at and never got a reply.

I honestly appreciate all the help I have had here.

Read my replies again, please!

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Fri 24 Mar 2017 10:17

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - SLO76

Apologies, I never read your post regarding sending a copy of the paperwork. So much on this thread I was rushing past to the latest post.

I would if I were you extract yourself from this poor value finance deal at the start and simplify it by borrowing from a bank at a much lower rate from the start. You're not getting any cash back here, he's only handing back money you're already giving him. £1k deposit and £1k off your trade in. Get on to your bank today and arrange a low cost loan over a term that suits your budget and you'll go into this new car without the complication of a PCP which is rarely good value on used motors. Plus there's often terms in the small print that stop you overpaying by more than a certain amount so you could be stuck with this expensive PCP for years. You'd need to check the agreement closely.

Edited by SLO76 on 24/03/2017 at 10:18

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Fri 24 Mar 2017 10:33

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

Many thanks.

I am already in possession of the car and I didn't want to risk them changing the very good trade-in price for mine so I plan to do the following:

As soon as I get the £2000 I will call and cancel the PCP. I then plan to borrow the money over five years from my bank at 3.3% and then after three years will either keep it (and carry on paying the loan) sell it or trade it in for another car.

I hope this thread proves useful for anybody else in my position who is a novice at this kind of this.

I have to just say that regardless of the deal I nearly landed myself with (another big Thank You here) I love the car..

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Fri 24 Mar 2017 11:18

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - SLO76

It is a nice model, something I'd buy myself and should prove reliable. Good luck with it.

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 11:51

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - Vermilion

Me again!

I thought I would come back and update you on what I eventually did.

The cash back arrived yesterday (straight into my bank account). I used it to pay off my old loan. While on the phone to my bank I asked about getting a new loan for the £12000 at their headline rate (3.3%). They said I would qualify because the PCP had not shown up on my credit file yet so I applied for £12000 over 54 months (shortened it a bit as the payments were still affordable).

The money went into my account immediately. I then called Mercedes Finance straight away and advised them that I was withdrawing from the PCP. No charge for that. I have 30 days to clear the amount owing.

Thank you all so much for explaining this in simple terms for me. You have saved me a lot of money. You're awesome!

PS.. I'm loving the car ;)

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 14:00

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - SLO76

That's excellent, a great rate and it will save you a substantial amount of money over the term. Well done. You'll save a heafty sum of money over your life now that you intend on shopping around for finance. I hope you're enjoying the car...

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Fri 31 Mar 2017 14:09

Mazda CX-3 - Novice Negotiator Requires Advice - New Car - RobJP

Wonderful. Well done.

Enjoy the car.

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