Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Stanb Sevento

Interesting report on the BBC News web site.

Diesel cars seem to be portrayed as the main villains. Is that fair?

Yes and no. Diesel car manufacturers drew fire by cheating emissions tests. Diesels are much more polluting than petrol cars on a local scale, and the biggest proportion of pollution in UK cities does come from road transport in general.

But if you look at Greater London (London stats are the most detailed) you see that private diesel cars contribute 11% of NOx - less than you might have thought. Lorries - with far fewer numbers on the roads - produce the same amount.

Zoom into Central London, and just 5% of NOx comes from private diesel cars. That is dwarfed by 38% from gas for heating homes and offices.

There are many other sources of pollution, including buses, taxis, industry and other machinery, such as on building sites. So it's a many-sided problem.

Full report at

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38979754

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - sandy56

We all know that you cannot trust a politician. They are either outright lying, or just feeding you distortions of the truth as given to them by their masters.

One of the worlds great scientists has already said that global warming is a lie, and guess what, he is castigated for it.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Bromptonaut

One of the worlds great scientists has already said that global warming is a lie, and guess what, he is castigated for it.

Can you name him and point to his research?

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - galileo

One of the worlds great scientists has already said that global warming is a lie, and guess what, he is castigated for it.

Can you name him and point to his research?

I refer you to Christopher Booker and Richard North's published works on this subject.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Wackyracer

I remember watching a program about global warming some years ago where one of the scientist's that do the research for the government said quite clearly that what they put in the reports to the government is not what the government report to the people. He said the findings from their research was the exact opposite from what the public are told.

He went on to describe how global warming was a multi billion dollar industry fabricated purely for financial gain. I'm sure if you were to search the internet, you'd find the program I'm talking about.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - nortones2

And the scientist is?

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Vitesse6

Denying climate change is a bit like being the punk in a Clint Eastwood film, do you feel lucky?

If it's not happening then there is no problem is there. If it is and we do nothing then it's ok for us, but what are we dumping on future generations. Will any one on here with children or grandchildren knowingly and willingly do something that could cause harm to them or their children.

So tell me, do you feel lucky?

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - bolt

Denying climate change is a bit like being the punk in a Clint Eastwood film, do you feel lucky?

If it's not happening then there is no problem is there. If it is and we do nothing then it's ok for us, but what are we dumping on future generations. Will any one on here with children or grandchildren knowingly and willingly do something that could cause harm to them or their children.

So tell me, do you feel lucky?

I dont think anyone is denying climate change is happening, what is being denied is we are causing it, the discussion is like religion, do you believe or dont you, feeling lucky has nothing to do with it

we can spend billions on cleaning car exhausts up,then get killed by a virus that antibiotics cannot kill. personaly I doubt we can win anyway we go,if one thing dont kill us something else will, I am open minded as far as climate change causes are concerned,but its interesting reading what everyone else thinks....

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - thirts

I dont think anyone is denying climate change is happening, what is being denied is we are causing it,

Evevy 15 seconds we consume the equivalent of two Olympic size swimming pools of oil ( that's every 15 seconds 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Then add the millions of tons of coal that is burnt, and then ask, how can this not have an effect

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - gordonbennet
Will any one on here with children or grandchildren knowingly and willingly do something that could cause harm to them or their children.

Arguably the electorate have been doing exactly that for many decades, so many of whom voting purely on 'what's in it for me', of course this will continue and in all probabilty get progressively worse as independent thought is eradicated.

What we do here about Diesel fumes is almost irrelevant, the massive population explosions of other parts of the world will hasten the worlds irrevocable change i would suggest far more than the coming tax grab from the growing politically motivated media hysteria about Diesels will nett, the current and to come effects of that population explosion and shift will affect the quality of life of our grandchildren in a much more direct way.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Sofa Spud

Climate change or no climate change, fossil fuels are being used up at an ever-increasing rate. There might be known oil and gas reserves to last many decades but they will become scarce and expensive long before they run out.

That's why we need to be investing in renewable energy technology and energy saving technology now, so we can make the switch away from fossil fuels gradually before the crunch comes..

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - bolt

Climate change or no climate change, fossil fuels are being used up at an ever-increasing rate. There might be known oil and gas reserves to last many decades but they will become scarce and expensive long before they run out.

That's why we need to be investing in renewable energy technology and energy saving technology now, so we can make the switch away from fossil fuels gradually before the crunch comes..

I see signs that is happening

business.financialpost.com/fp-tech-desk/co-creator...f

more companies are coming together to research in batteries as well, so its not as though no one is doing anything

I think its looking good for the future.....

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Wackyracer

And the scientist is?

Too many to list but, the program is on Youtube and is called "The great global warming Swindle" if you have a spare hour it's worth watching.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Bromptonaut

Too many to list but, the program is on Youtube and is called "The great global warming Swindle" if you have a spare hour it's worth watching.

Not even close. Sandy asserted that there was a 'great scientist'. We need name and pointer to properly published research, not some stuff on you tube.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Wackyracer

Too many to list but, the program is on Youtube and is called "The great global warming Swindle" if you have a spare hour it's worth watching.

Not even close. Sandy asserted that there was a 'great scientist'. We need name and pointer to properly published research, not some stuff on you tube.

It was on TV some years ago. Ok I'll list some of the names for you....................

Professor Tim Ball ......... Dept of Climatology....... University of Winnipeg.

Professor Nir Shaviv.........institute of Physics..........University of Jerusalem.

Professor Ian Clark.........Dept Earth Sciences........university of Ottawa.

Dr Piers Corbyn............Climate forecaster...........Weather Action.

Professor John Christy.......Lead Author.........IPCC.

Professor Philip Stott.........Dept Biogeography..........University of London.

Professor Paul Reiter.......IPCC & Pasteur Institute, Paris.

Professor Richard Lindzen .......IPCC & M.I.T.

Professor Patrick Micheals.....Dept of Envorinmental Sciences....University of Virginia.

Edited by Wackyracer on 11/03/2017 at 16:01

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Wackyracer

Not even close. Sandy asserted that there was a 'great scientist'. We need name and pointer to properly published research, not some stuff on you tube.

What is the proverb? You can lead a horse to water...............

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Bromptonaut

I refer you to Christopher Booker and Richard North's published works on this subject.

Neither is any sort of scientist never mind a great one.

So I repeat the challenge to Sandy56 - who is the great scientist and where is his work.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - sandy56

look up

Ivar Giaever Nobel Laureat and US Scientist
Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Smileyman

The debate about "climate change" is riddled with half truths, false comments, false statistics and more. There is no doubt the climate is changing, it's a natural climate evolution, the Maunder Minimum was a colder spell of time, the Romans used the area that is now the Sahara to obtain wood etc - the real debate should be about man made impact, is the action of mankind creating a greater change, or a different change than would have taken place anyway.

Now, from what I can tell, the situation with diesel vehicles is not so much about the impact on how the climate is changing, but the situaiton with exhaust emmissions and the possible (probabable) detrimental impact on people's health. This is a very different debate, but equally as worthy to have.

Just wait until the next Icelandic volcanic eruption, the impact will be interesting to observe (quite likely for 2017, but nothing is certain)

Edited by Smileyman on 11/03/2017 at 16:39

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - bolt

Now, from what I can tell, the situation with diesel vehicles is not so much about the impact on how the climate is changing, but the situaiton with exhaust emmissions and the possible (probabable) detrimental impact on people's health. This is a very different debate, but equally as worthy to have.

Its both, the CO2 output from exhausts is meant to be causing global warming, the particulates from diesel/petrol exhausts is causing health problems, especially in cities, though no one acounted for tyre dust and brake dust yet, though it was mildly mentioned a few weeks ago on the news

Nothing we can do about nature though, it is inclined to do what it likes!

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Andrew-T

The debate about "climate change" is riddled with half truths, false comments, false statistics and more. There is no doubt the climate is changing, it's a natural climate evolution,

'the climate is changing ...' Climate is always changing, but slowly as a rule. Most years now we seem to get 'the warmest this decade' or some such, and there seems little doubt that storms and rainfall are becoming more intense and frequent.

'it's a natural climate evolution' (whatever that means?). There is no point refusing to accept that atmospheric CO2 is rising - it's been monitored for 150 years or more. The deniers don't accept that human activity is responsible. I don't see how that could be proved by experiment (which is why the deniers continue), but the increasing combustion of carbon fuels must be a pretty certain culprit. The only reasons to deny are to shrug off any blame, and to continue burning without worry.

By the time people decide that must be the cause, things will likely have gone too far. But then hasn't that always been the way?

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - bolt

The debate about "climate change" is riddled with half truths, false comments, false statistics and more. There is no doubt the climate is changing, it's a natural climate evolution,

'the climate is changing ...' Climate is always changing, but slowly as a rule. Most years now we seem to get 'the warmest this decade' or some such, and there seems little doubt that storms and rainfall are becoming more intense and frequent.

'it's a natural climate evolution' (whatever that means?). There is no point refusing to accept that atmospheric CO2 is rising - it's been monitored for 150 years or more. The deniers don't accept that human activity is responsible. I don't see how that could be proved by experiment (which is why the deniers continue), but the increasing combustion of carbon fuels must be a pretty certain culprit. The only reasons to deny are to shrug off any blame, and to continue burning without worry.

By the time people decide that must be the cause, things will likely have gone too far. But then hasn't that always been the way?

According to research the same thing has been occuring every 12000 years across a 50 to 150 year span each time, then goes back to normal, which could be the reason why some do not think its our fault

someone mentioned the icelandic volcano which may possibly erupt this year, if it does its going to throw out a lot more gases/dust than we could do over a few years depending how bad the eruption is

But the debate goes on and will continue, which is a good thing, and in the meantime research and development will gradually replace our fuels with renewables untill such times they find something else to find wrong with our lifestyles. around we go again

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Wackyracer

There is no point refusing to accept that atmospheric CO2 is rising - it's been monitored for 150 years or more. The deniers don't accept that human activity is responsible. I don't see how that could be proved by experiment (which is why the deniers continue), but the increasing combustion of carbon fuels must be a pretty certain culprit. The only reasons to deny are to shrug off any blame, and to continue burning without worry.

If anyone bothers to watch the documentary that I referred to, they will see just how small a percentage of CO2 is due to man. It states that the earths volcanoes produce more than all the man made CO2.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - dadbif
Every car should have a windmill on the roof, the faster you go the more power you generate, simple!!
Far more efficient than an ugly wind farm on a windless day.
Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Andrew-T
Every car should have a windmill on the roof, the faster you go the more power you generate, simple!! Far more efficient than an ugly wind farm on a windless day.

You've just invented the first perpetual-motion machine - congratulations!

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Stanb Sevento

Quite a wide range of opinions here but I've got to say I have resevations about all this, Im not saying its all rubbish more the case has is not strong enough.

The US were one of the last countries to go along with the global waming thing, maybe about ten years ago, when a senior polititan stood on a stage making a famous speech with a giant graph behind him showing global temperatures and atmospheric CO2, the graph was everywhere at the time, it went back millions of years. I've got a problem with that, if you look at the graph carefully temprature and CO2 track each other but its the temprature that leads and the CO2 follows not the other way round. It shows temprature goes up then 25 years later CO2 has cought up. I have asked someone to explain this many times with no result.

The way things work now gives me reservations about the impartiality of the scientific comunity, If you get a million pound reserch grant to prove global warming then thats exactly what you are inclined to do. If man made global warming was disproved tomorrow in an absolute unquestionable way how many reserchers would be out of work next week?. How many pieces of scientific advice put forward as fact have later been reversed. Its not that scientists tell lies, far from it, its more the reserch was not comprehensive enough, failed to recognise other factors or just came to the wrong conclusion. A good example is next week when the World Health Organisation tells us petrol cars are worse for our health than diesel cars! What will we do now?

Edited by Stanb Sevento on 12/03/2017 at 08:19

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - bolt

Quite a wide range of opinions here but I've got to say I have resevations about all this, Im not saying its all rubbish more the case has is not strong enough.

The US were one of the last countries to go along with the global waming thing, maybe about ten years ago, when a senior polititan stood on a stage making a famous speech with a giant graph behind him showing global temperatures and atmospheric CO2, the graph was everywhere at the time, it went back millions of years. I've got a problem with that, if you look at the graph carefully temprature and CO2 track each other but its the temprature that leads and the CO2 follows not the other way round. It shows temprature goes up then 25 years later CO2 has cought up. I have asked someone to explain this many times with no result.

The way things work now gives me reservations about the impartiality of the scientific comunity, If you get a million pound reserch grant to prove global warming then thats exactly what you are inclined to do. If man made global warming was disproved tomorrow in an absolute unquestionable way how many reserchers would be out of work next week?. How many pieces of scientific advice put forward as fact have later been reversed. Its not that scientists tell lies, far from it, its more the reserch was not comprehensive enough, failed to recognise other factors or just came to the wrong conclusion. A good example is next week when the World Health Organisation tells us petrol cars are worse for our health than diesel cars! What will we do now?

IMO the only research that really makes any sense to me, and is fact, is the research in antartica where they drilled into the ice, the samples they drilled proved what was in the air,ie, dust particles as well as air trapped in bubbles at that time all related to certain recorded incidents for that time.

But I think exhaust regulations should only be tightened up when alternative transport is viable, not push regulation when their is not other transport available, that just doesnt make sense.

pushing limits does not always make alternatives any quicker, and could cause mistakes we do not need that may cost lives, so imo by all means clean exhausts up but do not rush alternatives untill they are right!

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Wackyracer

pushing limits does not always make alternatives any quicker, and could cause mistakes we do not need that may cost lives, so imo by all means clean exhausts up but do not rush alternatives untill they are right!

I'm all for clean air in cities, it kills thousands of people each year in the UK.

If we got rid of every car in the UK would it make any real difference to the global CO2 ? Not a chance!

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Andrew-T

<< IMO the only research that really makes any sense to me, and is fact, is the research in antartica where they drilled into the ice, the samples they drilled proved what was in the air,ie, dust particles as well as air trapped in bubbles at that time all related to certain recorded incidents for that time. >>

Why is this 'fact' and the rest not, by implication? Why have the gases trapped in antarctic ice somehow remained unchanged for centuries, while we are asked to believe (in other threads) that nitrogen and oxygen permeate tyre walls (or even alloy wheels) at different rates over months ?

Carry on pick-n-mixing to your heart's content.

Edited by Andrew-T on 12/03/2017 at 09:39

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - bolt

Carry on pick-n-mixing to your heart's content

well that is my perogative, and if you remember I did say its like religion- more questions than answers, I just gave my opinion, if you dont like it, it matters not

I`m not trying to persuade anyone whats right or wrong as I do not know

Dont forget this world is full of questions and very few answers:)

interesting to hear peoples opinions though dont you think

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - gordonbennet

well that is my perogative, and if you remember I did say its like religion-

Interesting phrase, this global warming/climate change/environmental hysteria seems to have become the new religion.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - bolt

well that is my perogative, and if you remember I did say its like religion-

Interesting phrase, this global warming/climate change/environmental hysteria seems to have become the new religion.

Its become an obsession with some that I think is getting rather worrying, as some are not listening and have only one view regardless of what others think.

about cows Avant mentioned

www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/c...l

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Wackyracer

I've got a problem with that, if you look at the graph carefully temprature and CO2 track each other but its the temprature that leads and the CO2 follows not the other way round. It shows temprature goes up then 25 years later CO2 has cought up. I have asked someone to explain this many times with no result.

If you watch the documentary I refererred to, they explain it in a very plausible way.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - bolt

I've got a problem with that, if you look at the graph carefully temprature and CO2 track each other but its the temprature that leads and the CO2 follows not the other way round. It shows temprature goes up then 25 years later CO2 has cought up. I have asked someone to explain this many times with no result.

If you watch the documentary I refererred to, they explain it in a very plausible way.

I watched a similar program years ago which said the Sun was in control of our global weather, personally I would rather believe that than certain people shouting its our fault,good program!

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Stanb Sevento

Watched the film Wackyracer, thanks for pointing it out. It backs up a lot of what I thought and gives a lot more information. My 25 years thing was a bit understated - oops.

So what do you think, was Margaret Thatcher wrong and Donald Trump right !!! Scary or what.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - bolt

Scary or what

whats so scary about it, its a fact of life,if some wish to make it scary then let them get on with it, as far as I can see we need to make exhausts cleaner for our own health, electric will come soon enough, untill they start on tyre dust and brake dust that is damaging the oceans

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Stanb Sevento

" whats so scary about it" Whats scary is Margaret Thatcher set out to close all the coal mines and Donald Trump is going to re-open coal mines and it looks as if its the Trump thats right.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Andrew-T

<< If man-made global warming was disproved tomorrow in an absolute unquestionable way .. >>

This thread proves (unscientifically) that that hypothesis is impossible .. :-)

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Andrew-T

<< If anyone bothers to watch the documentary that I referred to, they will see just how small a percentage of CO2 is due to man. It states that the earths volcanoes produce more than all the man made CO2. >>

Over geological time that is unquestionably true. But accepting that global CO2 has risen by about 50% over 150 years, you must be suggesting that volcanoes have become that much more active?

Atmospheric CO2 is added to in various ways (burning carbon being one) and reduced by plants photosynthesising it and excreting oxygen. If that didn't happen we have a real problem. So there is a balance which has relatively recently been disturbed - not least by chopping down lots of trees without replanting.

But of course everyone believes what they want to. Some extreme cases even say the experimenters are idiots, or political pawns, if their results are really uncomfortable.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Wackyracer

<< If anyone bothers to watch the documentary that I referred to, they will see just how small a percentage of CO2 is due to man. It states that the earths volcanoes produce more than all the man made CO2. >>

Over geological time that is unquestionably true. But accepting that global CO2 has risen by about 50% over 150 years, you must be suggesting that volcanoes have become that much more active?

I used the volcanoes as an example of how little CO2 is man made. I'm not suggesting anything about volcanoes activity having changed.

Atmospheric CO2 is added to in various ways (burning carbon being one) and reduced by plants photosynthesising it and excreting oxygen. If that didn't happen we have a real problem. So there is a balance which has relatively recently been disturbed - not least by chopping down lots of trees without replanting.

Animals and bacteria produce about 150 gigatonnes of CO2 each year compared to 6.5 gigatonnes from humans. there are other larger sources too, if you are really interested watch the documentary but, I doubt you will because you have already decided that man made CO2 is the problem.

But of course everyone believes what they want to. Some extreme cases even say the experimenters are idiots, or political pawns, if their results are really uncomfortable.

I believe the professors in the documentary, they are the ones that are doing the research and studying their findings. Who do you believe ? Al Gore?

Edited by Wackyracer on 12/03/2017 at 10:07

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - alan1302

I believe the professors in the documentary, they are the ones that are doing the research and studying their findings. Who do you believe ? Al Gore?

You belive the ones that match what you think, Most proffesors/scients do belive that man made climate change is real - why do you not belive them?

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Wackyracer

I believe the professors in the documentary, they are the ones that are doing the research and studying their findings. Who do you believe ? Al Gore?

You belive the ones that match what you think, Most proffesors/scients do belive that man made climate change is real - why do you not belive them?

If they were right, I'd have been living in the ice age for the last 17 years according to what they told us in 1970.

As I sit here looking out the window at green grass on a mildly warm day, I'd say they were wrong.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - alan1302

I believe the professors in the documentary, they are the ones that are doing the research and studying their findings. Who do you believe ? Al Gore?

You belive the ones that match what you think, Most proffesors/scients do belive that man made climate change is real - why do you not belive them?

If they were right, I'd have been living in the ice age for the last 17 years according to what they told us in 1970.

As I sit here looking out the window at green grass on a mildly warm day, I'd say they were wrong.

Are you going to back that up with some facts or just give an anecdote from the past? Was the gernaeral concensous that there was goingt to be an ice age? Or just a few people saying it?

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Andrew-T

<< Animals and bacteria produce about 150 gigatonnes of CO2 each year compared to 6.5 gigatonnes from humans. there are other larger sources too, if you are really interested watch the documentary but, I doubt you will because you have already decided that man made CO2 is the problem. >>

I have never said that 'man-made CO2 is the problem', but I will certainly say that it is part of the problem. So far you have not commented on why global CO2 should have increased by 50% over 150 years, except to blame volcanoes. I suggest that humans have caused much of that by (a) digging up a lot of coal and oil and burning it, and (b) reducing forests which convert CO2 back to oxygen - which we need to breathe, but also to burn the coal and oil.

While it is not possible to convince every sceptic that mankind is at least partially responsible, it is even more difficult to prove that we aren't. Therefore it is prudent at least to admit the possibility, instead of grasping at any passing straw as an excuse to place the blame on something bigger.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Wackyracer

<< Animals and bacteria produce about 150 gigatonnes of CO2 each year compared to 6.5 gigatonnes from humans. there are other larger sources too, if you are really interested watch the documentary but, I doubt you will because you have already decided that man made CO2 is the problem. >>

I have never said that 'man-made CO2 is the problem', but I will certainly say that it is part of the problem. So far you have not commented on why global CO2 should have increased by 50% over 150 years, except to blame volcanoes.

I never blamed volcanoes, what I said was volcanoes produce more CO2 than mankind. The answer for the majority of the CO2 is in the documentary.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Andrew-T

<< I never blamed volcanoes, what I said was volcanoes produce more CO2 than mankind. The answer for the majority of the CO2 is in the documentary. >>

Before watching the 'documentary' you recommended, I looked at Wikipedia's review of it, which states that after Channel-4 showed it, one of the things that was corrected or deleted was this statement about volcanoes. If I am to watch the film, maybe you should consult Wikipedia as well ?

That report also gives the global CO2 concentration derived from the antarctic ice samples, which as you will know covers many millennia. It never peaks above 250ppm. We are now above 400ppm, so something different has happened in recent history. No wonder they had to think again about the daft volcano idea.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Wackyracer

Why is this 'fact' and the rest not, by implication? Why have the gases trapped in antarctic ice somehow remained unchanged for centuries, while we are asked to believe (in other threads) that nitrogen and oxygen permeate tyre walls (or even alloy wheels) at different rates over months ?

Carry on pick-n-mixing to your heart's content.

That report also gives the global CO2 concentration derived from the antarctic ice samples, which as you will know covers many millennia. It never peaks above 250ppm. We are now above 400ppm, so something different has happened in recent history. No wonder they had to think again about the daft volcano idea.

There seems to be some conflict between these 2 posts of yours. So which is it? Are the gases trapped in antartic ice an accurate or inaccurate measure of CO2 ? In the first post there is some hint that maybe some gases could have escaped the ice (I assume that is your reference about car wheels and tyres).

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Andrew-T

<< Are the gases trapped in antartic ice an accurate or inaccurate measure of CO2 ? In the first post there is some hint that maybe some gases could have escaped the ice (I assume that is your reference about car wheels and tyres). >>

That is irrelevant to my argument, as I am not trying to use antarctic CO2 data to show that present-day levels are not serious. The data shows strong fluctuations. If we assume that the CO2 levels in the core samples have remained unchanged since they were formed, today's levels well exceed them all. Maybe as the peaks are all much the same height, little CO2 has been lost over time. I don't think anyone really knows - again, it's hard to determine experimentally. But if we can believe that gases permeate rubber and metal alloy in months, maybe we should suspect something similar with (probably porous) ice ?

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Wackyracer

<< Are the gases trapped in antartic ice an accurate or inaccurate measure of CO2 ? In the first post there is some hint that maybe some gases could have escaped the ice (I assume that is your reference about car wheels and tyres). >>

That is irrelevant to my argument, as I am not trying to use antarctic CO2 data to show that present-day levels are not serious.

You compared todays 400ppm to the ice samples 250ppm, so you must have thought it relevant on your previous post?

The data shows strong fluctuations. If we assume that the CO2 levels in the core samples have remained unchanged since they were formed, today's levels well exceed them all. Maybe as the peaks are all much the same height, little CO2 has been lost over time.

Or maybe the same amount of CO2 was lost from each sample? We simply do not know. which makes it pointless to say 400ppm is higher than it was before. How do we know? or are we now going to say that the 250ppm figures of ice samples is correct because that reinforces that there has been an increase of CO2 ?

I don't think anyone really knows - again, it's hard to determine experimentally. But if we can believe that gases permeate rubber and metal alloy in months, maybe we should suspect something similar with (probably porous) ice ?

Agreed.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Andrew-T

<< You compared todays 400ppm to the ice samples 250ppm, so you must have thought it relevant on your previous post? >>

No I didn't. I compared today's 400ppm with the 250ppm of 150 years ago, which I suggest is a much more meaningful comparison as we needn't worry about whether the ice samples have lost anything.

I think we have done this topic to death and we don't seem to be converging on any solution.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Avant

There was an experiment carried out a few years ago, I think in New Zealand, where it was shown that a single cow can produce (from both ends) enough methane gas in a day to power a small truck for 25 miles.

They'll be after banning cows next.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - bolt

There was an experiment carried out a few years ago, I think in New Zealand, where it was shown that a single cow can produce (from both ends) enough methane gas in a day to power a small truck for 25 miles.

They'll be after banning cows next.

The EU was talking about doing away with cows to cut down on emmisions, i will try and find the article on it..

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Bromptonaut

They'll be after banning cows next.

CO2 from industrial scale beef farming, on the American rather than European continent, is said to be a significant contributor.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - bolt

They'll be after banning cows next.

CO2 from industrial scale beef farming, on the American rather than European continent, is said to be a significant contributor.

A lot comes from the oceans as well,undersea volcanos and even seaweed, thats without sealife itself,and think about all that plastic in sealife were eating from our tyres.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - corax

I don't think there's any question that the earth has had larger amounts of co2 in the past, before we were ever here.

The point is we aren't making life any more tolerable in the cities by using fossil fuelled vehicles. But until we have an alternative that works, we'll keep on using them. How will anything be delivered otherwise?

It always comes down to overpopulation in the end, and no one wants to deal with that thorny subject, so we will continue to breed and consume and cut trees down and make life more unpleasant for ourselves, like the self destructive apes we are.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - bolt

How will anything be delivered otherwise

Its not just about deliveries, if we stop using oil where will we get our chemicals from to make plastic containers/chemicals used in all sorts of industries, unless were going to carry on using oil for these things, which defeats the object as I suspect these industries produce gases into the atmosphere as well

This is interesting

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-polit...l

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - madf

I am a simple soul.

We moved here in 1982. We had lots of snow every winter.

We have had little snow for teh past 10 years.

Yes: I ahree many climate change supporters are idiots and exaggerate,

BUT the evidence of my eyes and my thermometers is our climate is warming. And sea levles are rising.

Why? Well I am sure man has something to do with it . as well as nutural cyclic warming..As I don not have a supercomputer to model the weather nor teh intelelctual ability to do so, I say no more. I leave that to those who have both.. Whcih excludes everyone on this thread - unless you do have a supercomputer and an IQ over 150..:-)

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - corax

I am a simple soul.

I've read your posts in the past ma***

Not that simple :-)

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Avant

As ever, the truth is likely to be somewhere in the middle ground of this argument (at the risk of sounding like Tony Blair).

I believe that in the Middle Ages thre averahe temperature in this coubtry was warmer than it is today. Then in the 18th century it was much colderm, and the Thames froze over each winter, to the extent that a fair was held regularly on the ice. As a child in the 1950s i remember snow at some point every winter in the south of England, whereas it's rarer now.

The fluctuations - over several centuries - have probably always been there. But we do all have a duty to control emissions of noxious gases, which clearly have an adverse effect, even if it may not be as great or as rapid as some would have us believe.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - bolt

As ever, the truth is likely to be somewhere in the middle ground of this argument (at the risk of sounding like Tony Blair).

I believe that in the Middle Ages thre averahe temperature in this coubtry was warmer than it is today. Then in the 18th century it was much colderm, and the Thames froze over each winter, to the extent that a fair was held regularly on the ice. As a child in the 1950s i remember snow at some point every winter in the south of England, whereas it's rarer now.

The fluctuations - over several centuries - have probably always been there. But we do all have a duty to control emissions of noxious gases, which clearly have an adverse effect, even if it may not be as great or as rapid as some would have us believe.

tbh, I would worry more about solar flares than global warming

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Andrew-T

<<... I would worry more about solar flares than global warming >>

Ah yes, that could knock out your telecomms or even the grid system. But those could be fixed in a week or two. Global warming will probably not bother us in our lifetimes, but some of us try to look a little further ahead.

As has been mentioned above, most topical problems which hit the limelight regularly are caused or aggravated by global overpopulation, a taboo topic which it is politically incorrect to discuss meaningfully. Most of us don't question our right to drive, heat our homes, or fly halfway round the world for a stag-do, we just do it because it's cheap.

Lemmings come to mind .... :-)

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - bolt

Global warming will probably not bother us in our lifetimes

I dont know where you live, but its been affecting our weather for years in case you havent noticed,

Most of us don't question our right to drive, heat our homes, or fly halfway round the world for a stag-do, we just do it because it's cheap

Is it, I dont call any of those things cheap, I know some that struggle to have any of those but no one is interested in those people or the elderly

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Stanb Sevento

Any change you can see over a decade or two are normal fluctuations in weather not climate change. Some of the known cycles take 100 years to come back round, most seem to involve the lrelative position of the earth to sun and the wobble in the earth axis. And then there is solar activity of cource.

Edited by Stanb Sevento on 12/03/2017 at 20:28

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - Andrew-T

<< I don't know where you live, but its been affecting our weather for years in case you haven't noticed, >>

I said 'bother us' (which it doesn't), not 'affect us' (which it does, a bit). At least here.

<< I don't call any of those things cheap, I know some that struggle ... >>

Come on - so many people choose to fly all over the place that airports are competing for new runways to cope with it. Of course there will be millions who may struggle, but many of them can fly for next to nothing with Ryanair if they want.

Keep Your Diesel - Ditch Your Boiler - daveyK_UK

IMO,

there is a balance to be struck.

the climate is changing and we as people do have some sort of impact.

in the grand scheme of things, UK diesel engine emissions have little impact on world pollution.

However, as they do have an impact on our fellow citizens, I do believe we should be striving towards cleaner fuels.

 

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