London T-Charge announced

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
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Fri 17 Feb 2017 15:23
London T-Charge announced - RT

London will levy £10 on top of the £11.50 Congestion Charge for pre-Euro 4 vehicles, both petrol and diesel, from 23rd October

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Fri 17 Feb 2017 15:49
London T-Charge announced - gordonbennet

Every cloud etc, another excellent reason to avoid ever having to go to hell again unless being paid well, not as wild horses could drag SWMBO anywhere near.

Central hell is going to be an interesting place, not everyone is part of the new elite or a politician who can claim it all back on ex's...like they'd have a pre euro4...the costs of getting tradespeople etc in is going to rise further still.

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Fri 17 Feb 2017 17:58
London T-Charge announced - Bolt

Could get even higher if these fines hit us.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/15/europe...s

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Fri 17 Feb 2017 18:37
London T-Charge announced - RT

Could get even higher if these fines hit us.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/15/europe...s

The EU requires us to take action - London has taken action, other UK cities may well follow suit.

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Fri 17 Feb 2017 20:05
London T-Charge announced - Ethan Edwards

The EU and it's fines can shove off. We're going to be leaving.

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Fri 17 Feb 2017 20:13
London T-Charge announced - Smileyman

for me what is annoying the thought that there is a health or safety need yet the government is only likely to act as a result of EU actions ... we will be out of the EU soon, government needs to be competant to act on it's own without overseas / outside prompting

Well done to the Mayor for setting this in place, however I still don't agree with reducing the speed limit on the M1 in Yorkshire as a means to acheive these air quality standards

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Fri 17 Feb 2017 20:22
London T-Charge announced - alan1302

for me what is annoying the thought that there is a health or safety need yet the government is only likely to act as a result of EU actions ... we will be out of the EU soon, government needs to be competant to act on it's own without overseas / outside prompting

Well done to the Mayor for setting this in place, however I still don't agree with reducing the speed limit on the M1 in Yorkshire as a means to acheive these air quality standards

So on one hand you want the government to do something but then don't like what they may do on the M1? So what should they do?

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Fri 17 Feb 2017 20:42
London T-Charge announced - RT

for me what is annoying the thought that there is a health or safety need yet the government is only likely to act as a result of EU actions ... we will be out of the EU soon, government needs to be competant to act on it's own without overseas / outside prompting

Well done to the Mayor for setting this in place, however I still don't agree with reducing the speed limit on the M1 in Yorkshire as a means to acheive these air quality standards

So on one hand you want the government to do something but then don't like what they may do on the M1? So what should they do?

Flatten Tinsley!

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Sat 18 Feb 2017 00:22
London T-Charge announced - Ethan Edwards

How is money going to fix the problem. People are not driving in London for fun. It's because of necessity.

Plant the damn trees like you said you would khaaan! They eat co2.

Another Khan bussdriversson promise broken..and fast too.

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Sat 18 Feb 2017 08:25
London T-Charge announced - RT

How is money going to fix the problem. People are not driving in London for fun. It's because of necessity.

Plant the damn trees like you said you would khaaan! They eat co2.

Another Khan bussdriversson promise broken..and fast too.

CO2 isn't the bad boy any more, NOx is particularly in cities - pre Euro 4 vehicles had no NOx limitation

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Sat 18 Feb 2017 10:52
London T-Charge announced - Wackyracer

CO2 isn't the bad boy any more, NOx is particularly in cities - pre Euro 4 vehicles had no NOx limitation

There has been standards for particulate matter and NOx since Euro 1 in 1992 for both petrol and diesel cars. Euro 3 onwards vehicles were fitted with EGR valves whose sole purpose is to reduce NOx.

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Sat 18 Feb 2017 10:39
London T-Charge announced - Bolt

How is money going to fix the problem. People are not driving in London for fun. It's because of necessity.

Plant the damn trees like you said you would khaaan! They eat co2.

Another Khan bussdriversson promise broken..and fast too.

www.london.gov.uk/WHAT-WE-DO/environment/parks-gre...s

Looks like its happening, problem is trees need to grow large enough to make a difference so its not an instant fix

besides, had councils not been so quick in cutting trees down instead of trimming back as they said they were going to, we wouldnt need so many to be planted and have slightly cleaner air

what with traffic slowing measures and cutting trees down councils have made a right mess of the environment (apart from flytippers)

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Sat 18 Feb 2017 11:03
London T-Charge announced - bazza

The main problem with the air quality isn't CO2, it's oxides of nitrogen, NOx and tiny particles of carbon. Euro regulations have tightened up on carbon/soot emissions via the diesel particle filter. Oxides of nitrogen, NOx figures are very much tightened with Euro 6 and Selective Cationic reduction technologies. Hence why the targetting of older diesels pre-Euro 4, which are very "dirty" and NOx emissive compared to the latest diesels.

The regs won't go away with Brexit, imagine if they did we'd be back to thousands of people dying in great London smogs. They'll be maintained and called something else, depending on what the final exit looks like, obviously we don't know that yet and will not for several years.

I think there were some very big short-sighted errors made several years ago, when we had the dash for diesel tax breaks, governments seemed only to be focused on global warming/climate change back then, which can be directly corrolated with increased carbon di-oxide emissions. We overlooked local air quality in that rush.

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Sun 19 Feb 2017 17:54
London T-Charge announced - oldroverboy.

Just because it is so funny

From the express

The toxicity charge will operate in the same area the congestion charge does and motorists driving in the city from Monday-Friday, 07:00 - 18:00 will be executed to pay the fine.

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Thu 23 Feb 2017 17:33
London T-Charge announced - Chickenwire

I'd read that growing trees give off more oxygen/ take in more CO2 than fully grown trees - is this likely to be the same for NOX?

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Thu 23 Feb 2017 17:45
London T-Charge announced - RT

I'd read that growing trees give off more oxygen/ take in more CO2 than fully grown trees - is this likely to be the same for NOX?

AFAIK, unlike CO2, NOx isn't absorbed by plants, not beneficially anyway - nature deals with NOx by breaking it down in the atmosphere into Nitrogen and Oxygen, the main constituents of fresh and both vital to life.

In cities, the higher level of CO2 compared to the countryside creates a "temperature inversion layer" which traps NOx at lower levels and prevents/slows the natural breakdown of NOx.

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Sun 19 Feb 2017 22:17
London T-Charge announced - Smileyman

roll on the scrappage scheme - let's hope it applied to older petrol cars too!

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Mon 20 Feb 2017 07:48
London T-Charge announced - daveyK_UK

will this put up used values for euro 5 and 6 diesels or will it have the opposite effect and anything diesel will plumit in value?

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Mon 20 Feb 2017 08:05
London T-Charge announced - gordonbennet

will this put up used values for euro 5 and 6 diesels or will it have the opposite effect and anything diesel will plumit in value?

I suspect it will depend to a large extent on what is printed in mainstream media (i include the usual car magazines/program in this, not this place) or reported on the telly.

People like us here will make their own mind up, i'm not so sure that applies, as with many other aspects of life, to the general public at large.

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Mon 20 Feb 2017 13:38
London T-Charge announced - Sofa Spud

roll on the scrappage scheme - let's hope it applied to older petrol cars too!

Agreed. A scrappage scheme should push people towards clean new technology.

It should only apply when people are replacing their diesel or petrol vehicle with an electrically driven one, either pure electric or a range-extender that can do a decent distance on a battery charge before the engine kicks in.

Electric vehicles might be emission free and quiet but they tend to be about the same size as conventional ones, so going electric won't on its own reduce congestion!

Edited by Sofa Spud on 20/02/2017 at 13:38

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Mon 20 Feb 2017 14:28
London T-Charge announced - Bolt

www.timeout.com/london/blog/sadiq-khan-has-announc...7

He is looking at banning diesels altogether on(possibly) certain days(working on that) and scrapping all diesel buses for electric only

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Mon 20 Feb 2017 15:18
London T-Charge announced - RT

www.timeout.com/london/blog/sadiq-khan-has-announc...7

He is looking at banning diesels altogether on(possibly) certain days(working on that) and scrapping all diesel buses for electric only

Except they won'r scrap the buses - they'll sell them to regional operators - London is full of NIMBYs, like EV power generation just dump the pollution somewhere else.

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Mon 20 Feb 2017 16:11
London T-Charge announced - Bolt

Except they won'r scrap the buses - they'll sell them to regional operators

Got to get something back on them, they cost enough in the first place!

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Wed 22 Feb 2017 19:35
London T-Charge announced - daveyK_UK

From a quick glance at some of the car dealers around London, it seems they are expecting a bumper March

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Wed 22 Feb 2017 23:23
London T-Charge announced - Smileyman

Governemnt will make up the value of any monies spent on scrappage with increased VAT / C-tax receipts later on ...

I'm tempted to have a look in myself if I can get the price low enough, very happy with present car but at 177k miles it won't last forever....

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Thu 23 Feb 2017 12:36
London T-Charge announced - Sofa Spud

Except they won'r scrap the buses - they'll sell them to regional operators - London is full of NIMBYs, like EV power generation just dump the pollution somewhere else.

Increasingly our electricity is coming from renewable resources - on some days we get over 20% of our electricity from wind alone. Today it's 11% during Storm Doris, when presumably a lot of turbines are shut down because of the very high winds. Last year we got 25% of our electricity from renewables and 50% from reneables plus other clean sources. People said a few years ago this couldn't be done but now has been.

Apparently the power needed to run an electric car is roughly equivalent to the amount of electricity consumed in refining fuel to power an equivalent petrol or diesel car, so presumably the same would apply to buses.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 23/02/2017 at 12:46

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Thu 23 Feb 2017 15:11
London T-Charge announced - Bolt

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39042655

Not only the air we breath we have to worry about, but tyre dust/particles as well both in the air and ocean, I read some particles had been found in seafood, so contamination is everywhere and will take some sorting!

though it might help if people didnt throw their rubbish just anywhere for it to end up in rivers/lakes

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