Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - oldroverboy.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/transport-secr.../

Another day another tax rise..

What's new?

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - gordonbennet

Retrospective i wonder, or doctoring the new rates for Diesels already pencilled in for 2017.

To be fair the makers got round the co2 standards well and the govt were missing out on VED, which it must be said they encouraged at the time, things were never going to stay like that with increasing numbers of vehicles of increasing sizes coming into zero or £30 VED bands.

Country has a national debt of £1.5 trillion, inceasing numbers of people falling into almost susidised income tax situation (due in no small part to the elephant in the room), they've got to raise some money somewhere before the pips squeak and we find the debt standing at £2 trillion and still rising by the end of this term of the economic miracle duo..:-)

The article is rather unfair to Gordon Brown, co2 was the standard of the day, the goal posts have shifted, we'll see more changes than this in the coming years as they shift further.

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - RT
The article is rather unfair to Gordon Brown, co2 was the standard of the day, the goal posts have shifted, we'll see more changes than this in the coming years as they shift further.

You're too kind, by a long way - it was the politicians who set the "standard" - they decided that CO2 was the bad guy and other pollutants only minor significance.

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - HandCart

Perhaps Cammo should dangle some new carrots:

"If the outcome of the vote is to remain,
1. I will get Angela to make VW pay-off half of the UK's national debt,
2. Any inward migrants from the EU will only be allowed to have EVs or petrol-hybrids as their personal vehicles."


;-)

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - Alan

The link does not work , What did the article say.

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - artill

As much as i think diesels are nasty things when you know what is coming out of them, its a bit tough to hit those who already own them, when some will have bought them because of the tax incentives the government of the time put in place. What they need to do is make new diesels very much less attractive as company cars, because they are tomorrows second hand cars that the normal public largely buy. By all means increase road tax a bit, and toughen up the MOT standards, but an increase in fuel duty enough to get people out of their diesels will not do the road haulage industry any good at all, and all of us end up paying for that.

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - madf

Easy . Increase RFL with a levy for pollution. Applicable to Non HGVs only.

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - daveyjp
Agreed. It would be easy to add an RFL levy on diesel cars from next April when VED changes again. This isn't retrospective so no problem for existing owners.
Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - gordonbennet

I get the feeling they'd like to issue retrospective changes.

If you think about the LEZ is purely retrospective for older commercials, so precedents are in place and have been for some time.

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - RT

So all these HGVs consuming huge amounts of diesel contribute nothing other than pollution?

As diesel is the problem, then ALL uses of diesel or similar "heavy oil" should be taxied at the high road fuel rate - cars, HGVs, taxis, buses, trains, ships, power stations, oil-fired heating etc.

Politicians seem to think that CAR owners can solve the pollution issues - we can't on our own so we need to be more militant.

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - gordonbennet

The problem with tax on commercial vehicle fuel is that it isn't applied equally between Britain and other countries, hence foreign lorries entering Britain with over 500 gallons of cheaper fuel being commonplace, whilst our own transport pays our rate of tax.

Commercial lorry engines run fanstastically clean now, i'd like to know how much more pollutants my euro5 MAN engine puts out compared to a typical E5 car over the same given mileage...the exhausts of modern lorries are seriously expensive, a new exhaust for my MAN is £11k retail and if you get it for £8k then you've done very well, and thats not even an adblue system.

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - RT

The problem with tax on commercial vehicle fuel is that it isn't applied equally between Britain and other countries, hence foreign lorries entering Britain with over 500 gallons of cheaper fuel being commonplace, whilst our own transport pays our rate of tax.

Commercial lorry engines run fanstastically clean now, i'd like to know how much more pollutants my euro5 MAN engine puts out compared to a typical E5 car over the same given mileage...the exhausts of modern lorries are seriously expensive, a new exhaust for my MAN is £11k retail and if you get it for £8k then you've done very well, and thats not even an adblue system.

Easy - vote Leave on the 23rd then we can impose a fuel import levy to non-British HGVs.

HGVs may be clean as far as NOx goes but the CO2 output is enormous, can't avoid it.

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - Engineer Andy

Personally and professionally speaking, I don't think its fair to tax oil used for heating homes (at least no more than gas or electricity is), as its not chosen instead of gas, but because there are no gas services in the area and that electric heating/hot water production has been (up until now) so expensive.

New(ish) technologies in providing heating/hot water for homes, such as ground or air-source heat pumps, solar hot water (more for larger homes with a higher hot water demand [larger families]) and biomass boilers can be, over the medium to longer term, a viable alternative to traditional heating methods, but each isn't a viable solution for every situation, quality & efficiency (and price - no guarantee that expensive = good) of kit varies considerably, as does the installation and maintenance quality.

For the uninitiated, it can be a minefield, especially when there are so many useless (and quite a few dodgy) firms offering so-called green technologies in this area, often promising ridiculously short payback periods or unrealistically high annual savings in bills, as well as selling cheap tat for £££ or promising government grants/feed-in tarrifs to offset installation costs and sweeten the deal that either no longer exist or don't bring in much money.

More generally, government policies towards fossil fuel use, whether it be in conjunction with motor vehicle use, heating/hot water production, aircraft/ships etc, they should encourage firms to come up with new technologies (giving tax breaks for useful technology), and once proved (even if still being developed, e.g. fuel cells, hybrids, combined heat & power etc), then should slowly encourage its use and discourage older, less efficient/more polluting forms of fuel/technology by the tax system.

What they shouldn't do, as the Labour government (and many other EU governments did) around the late 90s - early 2000s was to ignore the science (the NOx/particulates information was apparently there, as well as proof about diesel's poor efficiency in town/short distance driving) and pretend to be green by just concentrating on CO2 emissions figures produced in lab conditions, not in the real world.

I personally think the taxes should be retrospective (i.e. changes effect existing users) to a degree, though not to the extent that new ones should be. Using the real-world emissions figures as a basis would be a good starting point - some cars (for example) which on the surface look 'greener' (say) than older ones are in reality not, yet they get taxed at half the rate.

In addition, people should not believe the (previous) 'wisdom' of buying diesel cars just because they (under the 'lab' tests) are supposedly far more efficient than petrol-engined cars, whatever the usage pattern. If you lug heavy loads regularly or do 20k miles or more of mainly out-of-town driving, then fine, get a diesel, however, mixed use under that (no heavy loads), then get a petrol-engined car, similarly get a hybid for mostly town use (or just use public transport and hire an appropriate vehicle for longer journeys that can't be taken easily by public transport/other).

Not exactly rocket science. Then again, we are dealing with MPs and many people who (in my opinion) act as that minicab driver did (see other thread) yesterday deliberately driving into 6ft+ of water in London.

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - corax

No one is really serious about pollution.

If we were, we might be putting a tax on jet fuel. A 747 might burn around 36000 gallons of fuel on a 10 hour flight. Everyone wants their cheap holidays abroad, but at what cost.

Or maybe we should stop chopping mature trees down every time there is new development. They absorb an enormous amount of pollution.

It's all nibbling away at the edges, but not really getting anywhere.

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - Bolt

No one is really serious about pollution.

If we were, we might be putting a tax on jet fuel. A 747 might burn around 36000 gallons of fuel on a 10 hour flight. Everyone wants their cheap holidays abroad, but at what cost.

Or maybe we should stop chopping mature trees down every time there is new development. They absorb an enormous amount of pollution.

It's all nibbling away at the edges, but not really getting anywhere.

Those that are serious about pollution cant do anything anyway except complain

No point in taxing fuel unless its going into research for other types of fuel, all its doing so far is feeding the government rather than preventing motor use, which is going to be difficult to do.

even the experts say it will be at least another 20 years before the air is clean, but how clean can it get, considering all the other particles floating about in the wind I am of the opinion it cant be done

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - alan1302

even the experts say it will be at least another 20 years before the air is clean, but how clean can it get, considering all the other particles floating about in the wind I am of the opinion it cant be done

Why do you think it can't be done?

Pollution...Solution..... - Raise Taxes - Bolt

even the experts say it will be at least another 20 years before the air is clean, but how clean can it get, considering all the other particles floating about in the wind I am of the opinion it cant be done

Why do you think it can't be done?

There have been comments in America/Europe about the brake dust and tyre dust caused by motors of all sizes, which are detrimental to your health, so getting emissions/particulate levels down is really only part of the problem

And seeing as its taking over 40 years for anyone to really do anything about, I wonder how much longer it will take to get anywhere near the clean air that people want?