Pavement Parking - sandy56

I have noted that parking on the pavement is becoming more common. I believe that the pavement is for pedestrians only- I have seen anything ffrom a small hatchback to a damm 44tonne artic parked on the pavement.

Where is the traffic police when we need them- long gone.

We are all grown up now so lets STOP IT !

Pavement Parking - gordonbennet

It's more prevalent on terraced and similar streets where the houses were built long before anyone had the faintest idea of how popular cars would become, and long before the population increases of the last 20 years were instigated without any planning.

Most terraced streets it may not be legal but it's semi acceptable because the streets are too narrow for people both sides to park on the road, so one side parks half on the pavement and other side fully on the road, it usually works if people cooperate and use a bit of common.

Where else should people who live there park, just something else we'll have to get used to as the population increases year on year by getting on for half a million souls and the number (and size) of cars increases in proportion.

I expect most traffic officers would look at the situation in context.

Edited by gordonbennet on 18/02/2016 at 20:12

Pavement Parking - alan1302

It's more prevalent on terraced and similar streets where the houses were built long before anyone had the faintest idea of how popular cars would become, and long before the population increases of the last 20 years were instigated without any planning.

I can accept busy streets like that when the houses were built well before cars were as popular as they are now. It's the new build estates that are annoying where they squeeze as many houses into as small a place as possible and don't allow anywhere near enough parking for people even though they full well know most households will ahve one if not more cars.

Pavement Parking - gordonbennet

Agreed Alan, and it's all based on money, squeeze as much profit (saleable house and the land it stands on) as can be grabbed out of a given plot of land...whats disappointing is how cooperative planning officers are to this.

The average car has almost doubled in size over the last 50 years, both in length and width, that hasn't helped at all, much to be said for have a Kei car banding with very small very light very small engined cars.

Edited by gordonbennet on 18/02/2016 at 21:14

Pavement Parking - Trilogy

Agreed Alan, and it's all based on money, squeeze as much profit (saleable house and the land it stands on) as can be grabbed out of a given plot of land...whats disappointing is how cooperative planning officers are to this.

The average car has almost doubled in size over the last 50 years, both in length and width, that hasn't helped at all, much to be said for have a Kei car banding with very small very light very small engined cars.

Perhaps this is the reason there are so many small cars available to buy in Japan.

Pavement Parking - RT

It's more prevalent on terraced and similar streets where the houses were built long before anyone had the faintest idea of how popular cars would become, and long before the population increases of the last 20 years were instigated without any planning.

I can accept busy streets like that when the houses were built well before cars were as popular as they are now. It's the new build estates that are annoying where they squeeze as many houses into as small a place as possible and don't allow anywhere near enough parking for people even though they full well know most households will ahve one if not more cars.

It's politics! Back in the '70s when we bought our house, new properties needed parking spaces in proportion to their number of bedrooms under planning regulations - but that takes up too much space so the restrictions were subsequently relaxed.

The real problem for the UK is too many people for too little land - try finding an acceptable means of population reduction !!!

Pavement Parking - Bolt

Parking two wheels on the path is allowed in some roads/streets, 4 wheels in certain areas, and untill someone comes up with another way to park the car I have no problem with it

>We are all grown up now so lets STOP IT !<

Now why would I want to do that eh, too many complain about the wrong things these days.

Pavement Parking - RobJP

Just to say, for those criticising builders for reducing the number of parking spaces ...

After 1997, the Labour Gov't introduced new regulations which greatly limited the number of parking spaces to be provided to new dwellings. This was to 'encourage' people to use public transport, walk, cycle, etc. Exactly the same thinking was used for industrial / office areas, with limited parking being provided.

(I know this because my brother owned a medium-sized construction company, buying land and developing sites for sale. He used to fume about the new requirements, which were brought in with absolutely no consultation)

Pavement Parking - Bolt

Just to say, for those criticising builders for reducing the number of parking spaces ...

After 1997, the Labour Gov't introduced new regulations which greatly limited the number of parking spaces to be provided to new dwellings. This was to 'encourage' people to use public transport, walk, cycle, etc. Exactly the same thinking was used for industrial / office areas, with limited parking being provided.

(I know this because my brother owned a medium-sized construction company, buying land and developing sites for sale. He used to fume about the new requirements, which were brought in with absolutely no consultation)

They also used to build flats with underground parking areas, most around my way have been replaced without these parking bays, in fact not as many flats either.

Pavement Parking - coopshere
It's all about consideration for others or in this case the lack of it. If a mother with a buggy can't get past on the footpath then they should be towed away. The safety of pedestrians is more important than damage to a car. Whenever I come across such a situation I a make a point of knocking the mirror round in the hope it will give a hint to the driver but I expect that they are too far up their own rear end to realise it.
Pavement Parking - Bolt
It's all about consideration for others or in this case the lack of it. If a mother with a buggy can't get past on the footpath then they should be towed away. The safety of pedestrians is more important than damage to a car. Whenever I come across such a situation I a make a point of knocking the mirror round in the hope it will give a hint to the driver but I expect that they are too far up their own rear end to realise it.

Consideration is lacking everywhere now regardless of situation, and there is nothing to stop pedestrians using the road to get round a car, pedestrians do have the right of way regardless of what drivers think

Pavement Parking - Auristocrat

In our late 1960's cul-de-sac, both the police and local authority have agreed with the residents association that vehicles should park with two wheels on the pavement whilst still allowing room for pedestrians, in order to maintain access for emergency and local authority vehicles.

Pavement Parking - Engineer Andy

I agree with what's been said - I live on a relatively 'new build' (about 13 years old) development about 5 mins walk (and about 200m as the crow flies) from my local station, built on previously industrial land.

It was designed as a 'home zone' development (a dutch 'invention' I believe) where the roads are narrower, many have no pavements (house having about a metre of front garden backing straight onto the road) so people are supposed to 'share' the roadway with vehicles, apparently making them (the vehicles that is) slow down and pay more attention.

Together with that, the developer had to adhere to the government (thanks Labour, BTW) and local authority planning rules/restrictions (supposedly to 'encourage public transport usage' - the problem is, it doesn't go everywhere or carry heavy loads/shopping), which as has been stated restrict most developments to 1 parking space per flat (about the half of the 2 bed flats are occupied by couples, most having a car each), houses (all terraced town houses) with mostly two spaces (a few with only one!), even the 4/5 bed ones. Those with an actual drive and garage (2 spaces) of course rarely use the garage to park one of their cars (too much of a chore, and the garage is used to store stuff as the houses are far smaller than ones with similar numbers of bedrooms built before the 1980s. Add to that children growing up and by 17/18 wanted a car for themselves, never mind people who drive work-owned vehicles as well as have their own car.

A recipe for disaster at the opening of the development (I moved in after 3 years) as no 'allocated spaces' were marked on the space themselves (only the leasehold documentation), the roads aren't (and were allowed to be build ready in the knowledge they could never be) council-adopted and there were no parking controls in place, plus the added 'bonus' of being near the station, attracting freeloaders not wanting to pay £7 a day up the road.

Cars, vans and even an artic lorry! (only cars, bikes and small vans are allowed by the lease) were parked all over the place - on the few kerbs/pavement/grass (ruining that - at the development's expense). One guy in a flat (one allocated space only) had 3 cars and a large van parked here! Once the residents finally got control of the development, we marked up all the bays (including the miserly 20% that were visitor spaces) and instituted parking control - things have improved a lot, but we find it difficult to keep parking firms on board as we always want the ability to recind any ticket we feel is unjust (mainly for new residents or first offenders [espcially visitors] - not for ourselves!), as most firms just want to ticket ad-infinitum and not recind any (in the unfair way as seen regularly on 'Watchdog'). Being 'fair' apparently just does make firms money - so we change them every few years when they get bored (we'd rather everyone obey the sensible rules and not be ticketed) and stop coming to do their rounds.

Needless to say, the properties (particularly the houses) sell for far less than older ones, partly because they are smaller (for the same number of bedrooms), but also because of the lack of parking spaces. They are also more difficult to sell, mainly to first time buyers or those with new families. I'm one of the people who've lived there the longest (nearly 10 years - in a 2 bed flat [only me, so OK on the allocated space]) - most stay only for about half that, even less if the general market is bouyant.

Sounds a bargain, but many people have to borrow a lot to move up the ladder or accept they (and their kids) won't all be able to have a car if they stay. Off-development street parking is very restricted and can be risky as residents cannot see their vehicles, leaving them vulnerable to theft/damage (not a huge problem locally, but we have spells of crimes).

Basically new developments like mine aren't someone to 'put down roots', but just 'somewhere to live' until something better comes along once you can afford it. People parking where they shouldn't is, unfortunately, a sad fact of modern living, which we all have to bare or do something about (which, from personal experience as a development resident director [effectively an unpaid MP with no perks or help], is quite hard, tiring, endless and mostly thankless!).

Sorry for going on a bit - I built up quite a head of steam there!

Pavement Parking - Bolt

I would be more concerned with Supermarket/hospital/high st parking and these shopping centre car parks, they are so small, there are very few cars that actually fit in easily, and manage to get in and out of

Its time they widened these spaces to accomodate the modern car, its all very well them saying the more cars they squeeze in the more money they make.

but its getting to the point some wont go to these places due to such effort to get in and out of the car,or leave it till later when theres not the staff about and the shelves are empty, then we moan about parking two wheels on the pavement!

Pavement Parking - Engineer Andy

I don't think spaces should get larger to accommodate larger cars and other vehicles like double cabs - that's a bit like saying train/plane seats should be made larger (at the passenger's expense [not cheap at all, especially for car parks]) to accommodate obese people (it would also reduce the number of seats available). Have a few larger spaces available, but make 'em pay for the priviledge.

Its not as though most of us need bigger cars than we would've done 20 years ago in the same position - in my view, its just laziness from us and the manufacturers that have lead to this.

What I think should be done is that car parks should be designed on the 'herringbone' principle (and well as to ensure a safe and easy way to navigate around and park/walk), so that ingress and egress into/from spaces is far easier and quicker, resulting in less accidents and quicker turnaround of shoppers (more profits to the shops and more time for us to do other things/less stress [good for when you leave the car park and drive home/onwards]). It works - I've seen so first hand at a few motorway services car parks that have used this system.

Pavement Parking - cilvilservant

Am I correct in thinking that unless signage specifically states no parking on pavements, vehicles are allowed to park on pavements? Of course, they must do so without causing any obstructions etc.

I also understand different rules apply in London?

Pavement Parking - RT

Am I correct in thinking that unless signage specifically states no parking on pavements, vehicles are allowed to park on pavements? Of course, they must do so without causing any obstructions etc

The pavement is always part of the highway - the obligation not to obstruct applies to all of the highway, hence no "right" to park at all as it's technically obstructing other road users from passing over that point

Pavement Parking - RT

I don't think spaces should get larger to accommodate larger cars and other vehicles like double cabs - that's a bit like saying train/plane seats should be made larger (at the passenger's expense [not cheap at all, especially for car parks]) to accommodate obese people (it would also reduce the number of seats available). Have a few larger spaces available, but make 'em pay for the priviledge.

Its not as though most of us need bigger cars than we would've done 20 years ago in the same position - in my view, its just laziness from us and the manufacturers that have lead to this.

What I think should be done is that car parks should be designed on the 'herringbone' principle (and well as to ensure a safe and easy way to navigate around and park/walk), so that ingress and egress into/from spaces is far easier and quicker, resulting in less accidents and quicker turnaround of shoppers (more profits to the shops and more time for us to do other things/less stress [good for when you leave the car park and drive home/onwards]). It works - I've seen so first hand at a few motorway services car parks that have used this system.

Herringbone parking takes more land, as more space is wasted - better just to make spaces wider.

Pavement Parking - FoxyJukebox

Victorian terraced houses were never originally intended to have anying other than a bicycle parked outside. As is implied-many now have three cars. Nearby-I have observed a two up two down with three 4x4s parked outside on the pavement!

One point- in Bermuda residents are only allowed to own ONE car. Of course, no Government or (Council?) would have the guts to apply this rule in the UK-but by golly it would certainly accelerate some proper thinking.

Pavement Parking - Bromptonaut

One point- in Bermuda residents are only allowed to own ONE car. Of course, no Government or (Council?) would have the guts to apply this rule in the UK-but by golly it would certainly accelerate some proper thinking.

The planning provisions outlined above sought to achieve the same end. The problem is that such control is utterly incompatible with modern lifestyles. And I don't mean leisure I mean peoples ability to do what's required to make a living.

Pavement Parking - coopshere
The Highway stretches from hedge to hedge or wall to wall and includes the pavement or footpath.

Whilst it is not a specific offence to park on the footpath there is an offence of driving on the footpath. To prosecute for driving on the footpath evidence is required from someone who saw the driving. Clearly another situation where the law becomes an ass.

Local authorities can introduce local laws to restrict parking on the footpath, I believe there is such a byelaw in place for London.

It is illegal to cause an unnecessary obstruction of the highway, this does not just relate to motor vehicles, but finding someone, including a police officer, who is prepared to make a decision to prosecute for such an offence is unlikely in this day and age.
Pavement Parking - Bromptonaut
I believe there is such a byelaw in place for London. It is illegal to cause an unnecessary obstruction of the highway, this does not just relate to motor vehicles, but finding someone, including a police officer, who is prepared to make a decision to prosecute for such an offence is unlikely in this day and age.

My understanding too. Pavement parking prohibited unless signage permits.

Pavement Parking - bathtub tom

What about the old offence of 'mounting the footpath'?

I knew someone who was done for this back in the '60s. His car was parked on a piece of waste ground and because he couldn't have got there other than by driving over the footpath plod did him.

Pavement Parking - Bolt
I believe there is such a byelaw in place for London. It is illegal to cause an unnecessary obstruction of the highway, this does not just relate to motor vehicles, but finding someone, including a police officer, who is prepared to make a decision to prosecute for such an offence is unlikely in this day and age.

My understanding too. Pavement parking prohibited unless signage permits.

That is my understanding as well,my road has a sign with picture and text of parked car with 2 wheels on the pavement only, not 4 as some do.

to the poster that mentioned car parking spaces should not be made wider,I suspect you may not have been in a position where, after you have parked the car, motors either side have gone, but others have parked instead but left no room either side so you cannot get between the cars let alone open the door.

and has nothing to do with being a large person of which I was not refering!

Pavement Parking - FoxyJukebox

Rural councils wake up!

You know perfectly well that anyone parking on the pavment in central or near central London is "dealt" with in five minutes!

Pavement Parking - jamie745

In this country the only way to stop pavement parking properly is to bulldoze every piece of Victorian building and start again with the assumption that most people will have a car.

A lot of this country was built before anybody entertained the thought that most people - the lower orders in particular - would ever be wealthy enough to have personal independence.

Simply ticketing all the vehicles on the principle that 'only pedestrians should be on the pavement' is hardly constructive because all of those cars still have to go somewhere. They won't vanish just because you ticket them.

Pavement Parking - Doc

Japanese law requires motorists to prove they have access to a local parking space in certain cities.

To register a car, or when changing address, motorists need to obtain a "parking space certificate" ("garage certificate" or "Shako shomei sho") from local police.

Sounds like a sensible idea in crowded towns, but not popular politically!


Pavement Parking - jamie745

Japan is also regarded as having a vastly superior public transport system compared to the UK. Such a scheme implemented here basically tells millions of people who don't live in London and don't have a driveway that they may as well not bother trying to go to work.

Pavement Parking - oldroverboy.

I am sure our lovely Chancellor of the excheqeur will find a suitable tax to help deal with this, but it won;t hurt the "wealthy" and those who have no access to a car. Just wait shortly for a fuel duty rise to help with the deficit which is following on the taxes on probate and buy to let and the potential rise in NI and income tax to "fund " HS2 and the NHS. Those nasty little workers won't have any spare money left to actually use their cars, so when they park them, a "parking tax" will appear. Don't forget most towms and cities already have this tax, it is called a residents parking permit. Coming to a street near you soon.

I live in a small close. (9 houses all have garages) Ony one person actually parks their car in the Garage, the others are empty or stuffed with tools of the trade. we only have one car, neighbour has 2 and a big works van, does not use his garage around the corner, next house one car, next house 2 cars and mother in law daily and usually a van. next house car and a van. next house a car. next house 2 cars next 2 cars and next 2 cars and mother in kaw frequently 3 other vans park in the access road from peple on the main road plus people living on the main road and causal parkers (commuters) who don;t want to pay at the station.

On top of this looking out of my window there are 4 cars parked on the access pavement. Neighbour round the corner has 7 cars in various states of repair actually uses 2 of them. One is so that his other half can drive the little boy 200 YARDS to school.

Edited by oldroverboy. on 21/02/2016 at 15:36

Pavement Parking - Engineer Andy

Your local situation and of what governments (and councils) do neatly sums up what's wrong with our society. One side thinks taxes and spending will solve all our problems, the other is selfish, lazy, decadent and wants to have their proverbial cake and to eat it, and 'up yours' to anyone asking them to behave sensibly and with a community spirit for the benefit of all.

Pavement Parking - Avant

And in other threads, ORB, you've said that their driving is pretty awful too! You should try to persuade Youngrovergirl to take a job back in Wales - sounds as if life was happier there.

Pavement Parking - oldroverboy.

You should try to persuade Youngrovergirl to take a job back in Wales - sounds as if life was happier there.

Life was happier, just this weekend our former neighbours came to visit .

Youngrovergirls is a bit younger than me.. 16 years in fact, so career and job satisfaction had a lot to do with it. Is currently studying fetal medicine with the associated bits and enjoying it. (at her level they still have to acheive something annually for appraisal and then every 5 years revalidation. Many of the courses are done weekends and frewuently in her own time, and we are a lot closer to London where the Royal Colleges and the Prestigious unis are.) Less travelling.

There are good things here too, the lovely suffolk coast and we are settling in.

But yes, Fond memories of Cymru.

Pavement Parking - FoxyJukebox

If the cost of car ownership doubled , if not tripled or even quadrupled over and above inflation-then what would be the implications?

Pavement Parking - gordonbennet

If the cost of car ownership doubled , if not tripled or even quadrupled over and above inflation-then what would be the implications?

I suspect it will, how else are the goverement going to reverse the defecit let alone even make a dent in the spiralling to third world standard national debt.

We'll still keep paying, some of us will find alternatives to try to minimise state theft, but most will shrug, pay up, continue as before and vote for more of the same every five years.

Pavement Parking - davecooper

The situations discussed on here seem to be for houses where there is no private parking available. I live on a street of 70's semis with shared drives. These drives are wide enough for two cars side by side and long enough for at least two, (I have had three large cars parked in my drive without any problem). Yet people in my road still park on the road/pavement, when they have plenty of room to park off road. What is wrong with these people?

Pavement Parking - Bolt

What is wrong with these people?

To some it involves steering, which some do not like doing, as reversing,they have a distinct hate for reversing (possibly because they are unable to) or just plain lazy,or have a motor they are not able to control properly(a lot of that about these days)

But people now have a habit of parking anywhere they feel like, without any thought for others, and I dont see that changing anytime soon...

Pavement Parking - oldroverboy.

What is wrong wiith these people?

But people now have a habit of parking anywhere they feel like, without any thought for others, and I dont see that changing anytime soon...

Which is why overstaying in car parks is so expensive when caught by Parking eye and other. Which is why penalties for these sort of offences need to be high.. pour encourager les autres.

When fine hits a level that hurt and in the case of mobiles while driving.. penalty points too, THEN that will slowly change behaviour. Tell someone off nowadays, the don;t giva a... Hit them hard enough in the pocket,,, (fine plus ponts equals higher insurance. they will change!

And tax more than one vehicle per resident and if you have a garage, only one parking permit if garage not used for extra vehicles.

Pavement Parking - skidpan

Yet people in my road still park on the road/pavement, when they have plenty of room to park off road. What is wrong with these people?

On our street we all have drives that provide parking for at least one car. Most houses have garages. As an example we can park one car in the garage, one under the car port and three on the drive. But some insist on parking on the street. One chap has two derelict cars on his drive (a 1985 Nova and a 1992 Escort plus his daily driver which is a 2002 Vauxhall Zafira. His previous daily drive now sits derelict on the street but amazingly according to the DVLA its taxed and MOT's, bet its uninsurred.

The classic was a few winters ago when one barking mad owner decided there was no way he was parking his car on the drive during a heavy snow fall since that would mean clearing the snow off the drive. Just to add our street is never ploughed or gritted. So with about 6" of snow on his car he cleared a slit in the screen and revved the nuts off it until it dug itself out. A few weeks later it was carted off on a break down truck, word on the street was the clutch had burned out.

Pavement Parking - bathtub tom
bet its uninsurred.

Easy to check: ownvehicle.askmid.com/

Pavement Parking - skidpan
bet its uninsurred.

Easy to check: ownvehicle.askmid.com/

But if I do I will be breaking the T & C's of the website and possibly the law as well.

"I am entitled to the insurance information about the vehicle detailed above for one or more of the following reasons: It is either registered/ owned/ insured by me or my employer; I am permitted to drive it; I am an Insurance Broker or agent and acting on behalf of my client.

I understand it is an offence to wrongfully obtain information of this nature without any of the above reasonable causes. If I fail to provide true reasons for acquiring this information I may be committing an offence of unlawfully obtaining data contrary to section 55 of the Data protection Act 1998. I declare that the information provided will not be used for any purposes unrelated to this enquiry".

Pavement Parking - oldroverboy.
bet its uninsurred.

Easy to check: ownvehicle.askmid.com/

But if I do I will be breaking the T & C's of the website and possibly the law as well.

"I am entitled to the insurance information about the vehicle detailed above for one or more of the following reasons: It is either registered/ owned/ insured by me or my employer; I am permitted to drive it; I am an Insurance Broker or agent and acting on behalf of my client.

I understand it is an offence to wrongfully obtain information of this nature without any of the above reasonable causes. If I fail to provide true reasons for acquiring this information I may be committing an offence of unlawfully obtaining data contrary to section 55 of the Data protection Act 1998. I declare that the information provided will not be used for any purposes unrelated to this enquiry".

If you do check "because you suspect the vehicle is uninsured" you are ok and can then let Plod know, and if you can point at the address they can always do something about it.

Not that any of us on the forum would do such a deed.....would we,,would we?

Pavement Parking - skidpan

"I am entitled to the insurance information about the vehicle detailed above for one or more of the following reasons: It is either registered/ owned/ insured by me or my employer; I am permitted to drive it; I am an Insurance Broker or agent and acting on behalf of my client."

Where in the above is "because you suspect the vehicle is uninsured". The chap may be illegal but I am not breaking the law to prove it. Don't think "oldroverboy said its OK" would work as a suitable reason.

Pavement Parking - oldroverboy.

I said none of us would dream of doing a thing like that, would we.

There are circumstances in which you are entitled to find out if someone is insured...

But don't take it too seriously..

Mind how you go..

Pavement Parking - FoxyJukebox

This is it--it's all about changing behaviour....

Example.....it's amazing what the congestion charge is doing in central London( stopping people driving in-yes!) plus creating a complete absence of parking unless you are a "resident" paying extortionate rates or a vistor forking out £10 an hour....extend this sort of behaviour everywhere i say!....It's time for change!

Pavement Parking - Bolt

This is it--it's all about changing behaviour....

Example.....it's amazing what the congestion charge is doing in central London( stopping people driving in-yes!) plus creating a complete absence of parking unless you are a "resident" paying extortionate rates or a vistor forking out £10 an hour....extend this sort of behaviour everywhere i say!....It's time for change!

It don`t make any difference to me, as I`m outside London CZ but its possible if Comedian Johnson becomes prime minister you may get your wish.

though in this case I`d be carefull what you wish for, but london transport, and Tube, including overground rail are terrible in my opinion and need a complete overhaul

Like the low emissions zone (its a waste of time) the CC is just a money grabber thats being wasted on daft projects which I reckon will get scrapped in time