The old one has deeper grooves as it is worn out. they are designed not to sit all the way down in the pulley grooves so a new one will have shallower grooves than the pulley has.
The important thing with them is the amount of peaks and the length, if they are correct then there should be nothing to worry about.
Edited by Wackyracer on 01/02/2016 at 19:10
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The old one has deeper grooves as it is worn out. they are designed not to sit all the way down in the pulley grooves so a new one will have shallower grooves than the pulley has. The important thing with them is the amount of peaks and the length, if they are correct then there should be nothing to worry about.
Okay thanks. After i posted this I googled v-belts and read about "bottoming out" where the belt is in contact with the bottom of the grooves, which indicates a worn belt.
I was surprised at the skimpy grooves on the Europart one though.
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The old one has deeper grooves as it is worn out.
I find that hard to believe unless it has done a very high mileage in a dusty country. Modern quality belts should last the life of the car. That's what GM said in 2004, according to this....
www.autoserviceprofessional.com/article/95269/acce...s
I serviced our 111,000m 16yr old Focus 1.6 Zetec ribbed belt not so long ago. Bend a tooth brush to rt angle over a candle. Dip in paraffin, hold against idling belt to brush any debris from the VVVVVV side. Finish off with water and spot of detergent, allow to dry then give it a squirt of belt dressing. (addendum to careless mechanics - collect amputated fingers and hurry to A & E :)
There are far too many cack-handed mechanics out there with little in-depth mechanical knowledge substituting dubious quality belts for decent original equipment which disturbs settled machinery and sometimes results in unnecessary problems a few thousand miles later.
If it works, don't mend it.
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The OP was right to change the belt. They are a service item like belts have always been. The one on our Focus showed signs of cracking after 5 years so was changed, they are very cheap.
Bend a tooth brush to rt angle over a candle. Dip in paraffin, hold against idling belt to brush any debris from the VVVVVV side. Finish off with water and spot of detergent, allow to dry then give it a squirt of belt dressing.
As for the above that is total stupidity. Using any oil based product will contaminate the belt causing it to degrade. the belt dressing discussed is not designed for automotive purposes.
Keep your downright stupid practices off decent web forums.
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Using any oil based product will contaminate the belt causing it to degrade.
You clearly are not familiar with the composition of modern materials or, indeed, the Ford ecoboost engine cambelt which is perpetually in contact with an oil based product - er, engine oil, actually. Do keep up - it's 2016, not 1966 - and please try not be rude.
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Using any oil based product will contaminate the belt causing it to degrade.
You clearly are not familiar with the composition of modern materials or, indeed, the Ford ecoboost engine cambelt which is perpetually in contact with an oil based product - er, engine oil, actually. Do keep up - it's 2016, not 1966 - and please try not be rude.
I am not being rude. I am attempting to stop other people carrying out dangerous and stupid work on their cars. How would you feel if a reader of this forum did what you suggested and lost fingers or worse. They could well attempt to get damages from Honest John because of your reckless advice.
As for oil on drive belts I am fully aware that the Ford Eco Boost uses a belt that is in contact with oil. But the belt is designed and manufacturers with that as part of the brief. Auxilliary drive belts and normal cam belts are not. The normal advice is to change them if they come into contact with oil etc.
On the Gates website the advice should a drive belt become contaminated with oil or other chemicals is to replace it, it specifically says do not use belt dressing.
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On the Gates website the advice should a drive belt become contaminated with oil or other chemicals is to replace it, it specifically says do not use belt dressing.
Well, they would say that wouldn't they.
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The old one has deeper grooves as it is worn out.
I find that hard to believe unless it has done a very high mileage in a dusty country. Modern quality belts should last the life of the car. That's what GM said in 2004, according to this....
In the link it says - 'A GM service bulletin from 2004 says they’ll last “the life of the vehicle (10 years or 150,000 miles).' So will sepend on the age and mileage of the Clio as well.
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That link is nonsense, try looking at what Dayco and Gates technical departments say about belt life and wear. Some years ago a SKF rep gave me a wear gauge for multi V belts that sits in the teeth and indicates if the belt is still usable or at the end of its life.
As for what GM says - about as reliable as a politicians promise.
Edited by Wackyracer on 02/02/2016 at 13:14
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I'm the OP. My belt certainly needed changing as all the ribbing was covered in cracks. The vehicle has done 103000, it may not have been the first change.
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I'm the OP. My belt certainly needed changing as all the ribbing was covered in cracks. The vehicle has done 103000, it may not have been the first change.
Doesn't say much for Clio belts, unless it was a 1990 original and clocked. My original equipment Focus belt is 16yrs and 111,000 miles old, and still looks and sounds as good as new. I wonder if someone religiously changed yours at 72,000 just because the hand book says so and put on an inferior product?
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That link is nonsense, try looking at what Dayco and Gates technical departments say about belt life and wear. ...........As for what GM says - about as reliable as a politicians promise.
I did - here is an extract from Dayco << Serpentine belts made of EDPM (ethylyne propelen dyeen monomer) on most late model engines will last even longer, up to 100,000 miles or more>>.
And that's from a source with a vested interest in selling/replacing as many as possible.
With respect to the more knowledgeable posters (and none at all to the rude ones) I give far more weight to opinion from GM than much of the stuff I read on this site. I shall continue to inspect and service my original belts at 10k intervals and if either the cam or ribbed V belt looks or sounds faulty, I shall change it. So far, none of my belts ever has, even our last century Passat which did 240,000+. Even my flimsy 36yr old TR7 fan/alternator belt, presumably of greatly inferior material, still looks and works OK.
If it works, don't mend it.
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John, interesting, did your passat do 240,000 miles on the original cambelt? Not trying to discredit you but it sounds quite amazing. Not sure most would take the risk.
On the smart phone so I may have misread.
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John, interesting, did your passat do 240,000 miles on the original cambelt? Not trying to discredit you but it sounds quite amazing.
Yes, nailit, it did. Unless someone changed it during the 4,500m on the clock when I bought it as a nearly new exhire car. (1994 Passat 2.0GL auto) Old hands here might remember my describing hearing the tension pulley squealing at around 150,000 IIRC (Avant may well have access to my ancient posts!). It was easy enough to change the pulley as only the top cam cover needed to be removed, but too difficult for me to change the belt so I left well alone. A more insensitive motorist might have driven it until it did seize and fry the belt, then falsely claim the broken cambelt to be the problem. I suspect that happened quite often, but not so much these days.
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I need to point out that the opinions given above are those of the individual posters, and NOT those of Honest John or of anyone else in the HJ organisation (and certainly not mine as I'm not technical enough to understand the issue).
I am sure HJ would join me in stressing that no-one should attempt a major repair, particularly one involving a potential risk of injury (or even fire), unless they have the appropriate ability and experience.
Edited by Avant on 02/02/2016 at 19:05
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Now I'm home and had time to fully read the link that JohnF posted, I'll give the article in the link some credit as they discredit GM's claims of the belt lasting a lifetime.
An excerpt from Dayco's website "These new EPDM belts resist cracking unlike the older OE belts, but they do wear. They lose rubber like a tire. Today’s belts start out with a V profile and as they wear, the V turns into a U. Once the belt is worn, it will have less surface area contact with the pulley and begin to fail or make noise."
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An excerpt from Dayco's website "These new EPDM belts resist cracking unlike the older OE belts, but they do wear. They lose rubber like a tire. Today’s belts start out with a V profile and as they wear, the V turns into a U. Once the belt is worn, it will have less surface area contact with the pulley and begin to fail or make noise."
Well, I had a look but couldn't find this quote.
www.daycoaftermarket.com/UK/EN/products-auto.php?c...K
However, there are a few interesting pics of poly v belt wear and suggestions of likely causes. And they do claim they are oil-resistant, so a spot of cleansing paraffin on my service toothbrush should not unduly affect it, especially as I wash it off. Obviously it will eventually wear out but mine shows no sign of doing so yet. After 111,000m it is nicely mated with the ribs on the pulleys it drives and I have no intention of divorcing them.
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Third paragraph JohnF
www.daycoproducts.com/worn-belts-lead-to-poor-alte...e
And another Dayco technical article about why you should not use belt dressing or oil based products on belts........
www.daycoproducts.com/why-belt-dressing-is-not-a-s...t
Oil resistant is not the same as being unaffected.
Edited by Wackyracer on 03/02/2016 at 17:31
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Third paragraph JohnF
Thanks, W-r, this is the third para....These new EPDM belts resist cracking unlike the older OE belts, but they do wear. They lose rubber like a tire. Today’s belts start out with a V profile and as they wear, the V turns into a U. Once the belt is worn, it will have less surface area contact with the pulley and begin to fail or make noise.....
They also say EPDM only started to be used mainly after 2000, so I suspect my belt is neoprene. Obviously it will eventually wear out but it is not noisy, looks OK and it doesn't 'chirp' with heavy load after starting or switching the aircon on, so presumably has adequate contact area. So I shall stick with it until there are signs it needs replacing, and continue to service it as I have always serviced my belts - I have never ever had one break or even look worn. The only belt I have ever replaced in nearly 50yrs was a cambelt on our 1983 Passat GL5 at around 130,000m; and that was only renewed because the leaky water pump needed replacing - it looked perfectly OK.
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