Millers Petrol Power Ecomax – and no doubt there’s other stuff – will raise your petrol’s octane rating by two. So standard RON 95 unleaded will go to RON 97, nearly (but not quite) the same as super unleaded (RON 98).
The stuff is pretty cheap on E-Bay, but you’d have to work out the maths to see if it’s more economical than actually buying super unleaded it at the pumps.
Beware - many additives clain an octane increase of x points, a "point" being 0.1 of an octane.
Miller claim an increase of 2 octane numbers - has that claim been tested ?
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"Miller claim an increase of 2 octane numbers - has that claim been tested ?"
No idea. But as it's something can actually be measured, the manufacturers would be pretty daft to claim it if it wasn't true.
Edited by FP on 18/01/2016 at 19:28
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Millers Petrol Power Ecomax – and no doubt there’s other stuff – will raise your petrol’s octane rating by two. So standard RON 95 unleaded will go to RON 97, nearly (but not quite) the same as super unleaded (RON 98)
Nowhere near the same. There is more to super unleaded than just a bit more RON. It is more refined and so contains less dissolved heavy compounds (so it burns cleaner and keeps your engine cleaner as a result) and it also has a 'stronger' detergent package to clean already dirty engines.
Of course, different cars respond differently to it. My wifes C1 gives better economy but doesn't feel any different, whilst my (tuned) Saab 9-3 Aero makes about 15hp/12Nm more on VPower compared to standard unleaded (and has lovely clean piston tops which had a significant layer of coke when I bought it).
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My last fill up was Optimax at 108.9 a litre. 'Low fat' unleaded was 103.9p. I tend to use the same station and 5-7p is typical difference regardless of unleaded price.
The pumps record total dispensed on each fuel and Optimax is about 10% of sales.
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The pumps record total dispensed on each fuel and Optimax is about 10% of sales.
Yeah, Shell pumps do that too. I have noticed that VPower makes up about 10% or so of sales at my regular station.
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It's interesting how what used to be a standard price difference of 5p has widened to a huge gulf in some cases. I recently looked at a Jet garage where basic petrol was 99p but the higher octane was £1.15. It must be down to the low sales of the expensive product- some forecourts, eg. Asda, don't bother with the higher octane at all. I find that even on very ordinary cars there's a little more 'oomph' with the dearer petrol, less pressure on the gas needed to get the same revs. I always used to use Esso Supreme but it has got too dear lately. I would never use standard supermarket petrol, but Momentum seems a higher quality product and good value.
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"There is more to super unleaded than just a bit more RON. It is more refined and so contains less dissolved heavy compounds (so it burns cleaner and keeps your engine cleaner as a result) and it also has a 'stronger' detergent package.."
Somehow, I doubt that. Of course it is more refined. The main characteristic of super unleaded is that it will not detonate so easily and so suits certain types of engine better. (Not many, I have to add.) The detergent package, beyond the basic requirement of BS7800, is up to individual manufacturers. I have seen one source that actually says the detergent package is the same for standard unleaded as for super unleaded.
I think it's a myth that using super unleaded will in itself result in a cleaner engine. It may, but whether or not it does could depend on the particular detergent recipe used.
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Re " The main characteristic of super unleaded is that it will not detonate so easily and so suits certain types of engine better. (Not many, I have to add.) "
www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tuning-andamp-upgrades/818...l
This link to a helpful Evo article. See comment that even a humble Jazz benefits from 98 octane:)
Edited by nortones2 on 19/01/2016 at 10:22
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I think it's a myth that using super unleaded will in itself result in a cleaner engine. .
You think so huh? Thing is, the evidence is parked on my drive - try reading the last line of my post.
Somehow, I doubt that. Of course it is more refined.
You seem to contradict yourself!
I have seen one source that actually says the detergent package is the same for standard unleaded as for super unleaded
I've seen a source that claimed cars can be run on water and that the info was suppressed by oil interests! To be fair, some refiners may use the same detergent pack, but not Shell (which is what I use).
Thing is, that I'm a Professional Engineer at an OEM and I go on evidence. I've seen plenty of that. Personally I buy VPower for the power primarily and cleanliness second (Momentum 99 has a slight edge for power but VPower has the edge when intake temps climb and I'm still on the standard intercooler). Frankly a couple of quid a tank is cheap horsepower (years ago when I built rally cars, £100/hp was considered cheap on an engine rebuild)
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Why does anyone need higher octane fuel for more power - apart from boy-racers and track days ?
When I want/need more power - I just press the accelerator a bit more.
Do people buy under-powered cars and then use expensive fuel to make up the shortfall ?
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Why does anyone need higher octane fuel for more power - apart from boy-racers and track days ?
'More power' has a lot more uses than just speed. For instance, I'm teaching my son to drive at the moment and he stalls a lot less when there's dearer petrol in the car.
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Why does anyone need higher octane fuel for more power - apart from boy-racers and track days ?
'More power' has a lot more uses than just speed. For instance, I'm teaching my son to drive at the moment and he stalls a lot less when there's dearer petrol in the car.
My principle of more throttle would still apply for learners at low rpm !!!
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"I'm a Professional Engineer at an OEM"
Oh good. I looked pretty hard for some good evidence and didn't find much. If you have the BS7800 specs for petrol please share it with us.
"I go on evidence." "..the evidence is parked on my drive..."
Please! You will need more than that. Not anecdotal stuff. Results from tests for performance. Photos of car engines run on super unleaded stripped to show their state of cleanliness, compared with engines run on different fuel. And not just one or two examples - we need a big sample.
And we shall need to isolate the effects of the detergent package.
Where is this evidence?
I was offering a tentative view - my opinion. And, yes, I did read your post - all of it. I'm not an engineer, but I am logical when it come to constructing an argument.
If you're going to play the "I'm a professional engineer" card then you will need to go all the way.
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From the Evo report, and others, the main benefit of higher octane is in mid-range, not in absolute power.
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From the Evo report, and others, the main benefit of higher octane is in mid-range, not in absolute power.
Why not just change gear and get in the engine's power band ?
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Thing is, that I'm a Professional Engineer at an OEM and I go on evidence. I've seen plenty of that.
Frankly a couple of quid a tank is cheap horsepower (years ago when I built rally cars, £100/hp was considered cheap on an engine rebuild)
Lets consider those comments.
A few HP on rally and race cars can be the difference between a win and being nowhere, been there, done that. Paid a fortune for engines that were the best in the class, once cost me £2000 for a 30 HP increase which is not much less than the £100/HP quoted above.
But on the road we rarely use all the power we have and even when we do its only for a few isolated seconds. At 70 mph we are probably using no more than 30 HP to cruise along so why pay more to get power you don't need.
As a professional engineer you would have thought that had been spotted.
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"The vast sum is largely due to polluters not paying the costs imposed on governments by the burning of coal, oil and gas. These include the harm caused to local populations by air pollution as well as to people across the globe affected by the floods, droughts and storms being driven by climate change."
Is in the artciel referred to.
On that basis, you can calculate everyone is subsidised using any basis you want.
You do realise that teh sewage you produce helps poison teh oceans and the costs you pay do not reflect the costs of cleaning them up....?
(as an example).
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But on the road we rarely use all the power we have and even when we do its only for a few isolated seconds. At 70 mph we are probably using no more than 30 HP to cruise along so why pay more to get power you don't need.
Exactly - the humble 2CV was able to hit 70mph with its rip-snorting 29bhp. Very skinny tyres, so low rolling resistance, but not very aerodynamic ...
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But on the road we rarely use all the power we have and even when we do its only for a few isolated seconds. At 70 mph we are probably using no more than 30 HP to cruise along so why pay more to get power you don't need.
Exactly - the humble 2CV was able to hit 70mph with its rip-snorting 29bhp. Very skinny tyres, so low rolling resistance, but not very aerodynamic ...
I loved my 2CV ... but couldn't ever get it up to 70 mph unless on a steep downhill gradient!
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Re Rt. Why go to 4000 when 2500 will do? It's a matter of getting enough to do the job, without having to swap gears unnecessarily. Some might enjoy that at times, as I did when I had a Honda, but it can be tiresome. A little more torque underfoot is more relaxing, and efficient probably.
Edited by nortones2 on 20/01/2016 at 16:32
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Re Rt. Why go to 4000 when 2500 will do? It's a matter of getting enough to do the job, without having to swap gears unnecessarily. Some might enjoy that at times, as I did when I had a Honda, but it can be tiresome. A little more torque underfoot is more relaxing, and efficient probably.
I don't disagree - it's a matter of buying the right engine to start with.
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