On my way to work this morning, I passed through a small village with a 30 mph limit. Vehicles coming the other way were obligingly flashing me to warn of a matching pair of plod with a speed gun.
Of course I didn't need to be told to slow down because I ALWAYS drive at 29.5 mph through a 30 limit; any faster would be dangerous and illegal, especially as I happened to be eating my breakfast, looking at a map, and talking on my mobile at the time (grins).
Out of the village, I flashed other motorists to warn them, and was rewarded with a wave or two of thanks (I think), and some odd looks.
My question; what are the conventions for warning others of hazards ahead? stroboscopic flashing, long flash, 2 or 3 short flashes?
And, how do you alert some bright spark that he's left his foglights on on a clear summer evening?
I am aware of what the highway code says about headlamp flashing.
Can we start a convention?
Any ideas?
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Good idea, but care required.
I believe you can be prosecuted for this. Something to do with obstructing plod from carrying out his "duty"?
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Where I live it usually indicates that you are giving right of way to another driver at a passing place. That's the problem with unofficial rules - they tend to vary around the country.
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John Regin is correct, motorists have been charged with obstructing Plod if they flash other motorists to warn of a speed trap. Bl**dy incredible! If I saw some drunk about to throw a brick thru a shop window ie about to commit a crime, would I be 'obstructing' plod if I stopped him from doing so! Only goes to show that motorists are specially selected for niggling and wasteful attention. 10 speeding tickets are easier to deal with than 10 burglaries. Motorists help the police reach their 'targets' - sorry - 'Performance Indicators'
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Could you not argue that you were doing your civic duty by telling people to slow down, irrespective of whether fi*th were around the next corner.
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I saw a website where someone tried to get a convention going where the flash short and long had a meaning according to the morse code. I kid not. It seemed to me that it was so complicated I had forgotten what they all meant even before I had got to the bottom of the page. I will have a look and see if I can find it again as it was all rather OTT.
Anyway on this I am with the highway code, headlight flashes mean I am here and nothing else. If I want to give way I do so by vehicle speed and positioning and let the other driver/pedestrian look after their own destiny.
Having said all that, how do you give a thank you gesture at night, eg someone stops to let you through when there is a parked car. The solution I have adopted is not a quick flash as so many others do which just destroys night vision, but I quickly turn off the headlights and back on so there is a very short distance just running on parking lights. (this is only on lit roads BTW)
Mind you re warning of speed traps reminds me of the urban myth where plod found they were not getting any victims, so packed up and headed off back to the canteen, only to find a small boy up the road with a sign saying speed trap. Better take him and his sign home they think only to find bigger brother down the road after the speed trap with a bucket of change and another sign saying TIPS. ;-)
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I go with the Highway Code too. Think of flashing headlights as the visual equivalent of sounding the horn, i.e. it's an alert to others to the presence of your vehicle, and nothing more. Highway Code section 91 is worth remembering: "If another driver flashes his headlights never assume that it is a signal to go. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully.
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Stuart
There must be room for more information given by flashing the headlights. After all the seafaring community manage to convey various meanings of their intentions with long and short blasts of their vessels' horns. The only one I remember is three short blasts meaning my engines are going astern. Short and long blasts are clearly defined. I doubt if many of the motorists who don't contribute here can cope with radical changes to their manner of driving. I've had a whinge earlier on the subjects of driving on the right and overtaking on the left.
Where this gets us with the headlamp debate, I don't know.
I've had my 2 extra posts on this thread so I'm off!
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I wrote:
>
> I saw a website where someone tried to get a convention going
> where the flash short and long had a meaning according to the
> morse code. I kid not. It seemed to me that it was so
> complicated I had forgotten what they all meant even before I
> had got to the bottom of the page. I will have a look and see
> if I can find it again as it was all rather OTT.
I have found it it is at www.car.driver.co.uk and there is a link to headlight signals, take a look if you want a hoot. Sorry we are not talking about audible warning devices so hoot is perhaps the wrong term. :-)
This guy has put a lot of thought and effort into this and I dont want to knock someones hard effort but the thought of the confusion which could be caused by signalling
G for Go = Dash Dash Dot meaning I will give way to you with
W for wait = Dot Dash Dash meaning you give way to me with
J for Junction = Dot Dash Dash Dash for junction blocked leave at next turning plus a page full of others.
Begger me it took me all my effort to remember the Morse Code for my DOT VHF marine operators licence and to send and receive signals in a decent fashion. I could not cope with doing this all at 70 mph on a Monday morning, with my doughnut in one hand, telephone in the other and trying to fit the coffee cup in the cup holder while shaving and typing an e mail.
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In my experience headlamp flashing can mean any of the following:
Urban areas:
1) Go ahead (flasher yielding right of way)
2) "Thank you for letting me through" - in acknowledgement of (1)
3) "Coming through!"
4) Watch out, plod with a "hairdryer"
5) I _am_ here (instead of sounding horn)
Out of town single carriageway
6) "Watch out, plod with a hairdryer/tax collector on a pole ahead"
7) "Aggghhhh! Please finish your overtaking manoever now" - by some one
on the right side of the road with an overtaking vehicle bearing down on them.
Motorway/Dual carriageway:
8) Go ahead, safe to pull out/pull in to the lane the flasher is in.
10) "Pull in please" - usually to a sand coloured Fiesta 1.1 Popular plus in Lane 3 doing on a bank holiday weekend
11) "Coming through" - usually by a Range Rover doing 120...
12) "Don't you have indicators" - to an eegit who thinks that every other road
user is telepathic.
None of these seem particularly regional
Any other suggestions...
/John
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How about:
13) "Oi, BMW driver! It's not foggy, so turn your front foglamps off."
14) "Oi, Nissan Micra driver! It's pitch dark, so turn your lights on."
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Or even
15) "Oh, b****r! That's supposed to clean the windscreen on my car."
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Any road urban or otherwise,
Why have you got your fog lights on wassock!
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Great minds think alike and post simultaneously, eh, Stuart?
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On the A17 around Christmas I was driving to my parents-in-law - a journey of 280 miles. A thick fog had descended and it was getting on for around 9pm.
There is little or no lighting on the A17 and so the lights were on at the back with around 50 yards visibility. The driver behind was using full-beam - to dazzle me - because they felt dazzled by the rear fog light (they were tailgating), and they wouldn't overtake when the opportunities arose because - I assume - of poor visibility. They just couldn't seem to make the connection, in such bad conditions, that if they were being dazzled then, they were too close, and dangerously so (less than a second behind).
And in addition to the beige Fiesta: on the A1 I once pulled in to grab a coke and some chocolate - Mmm, chocolate - and an old couple in an old Fiesta - no stereo-types here! - pull into the services whilst I'm enjoying my junk diet. The chap gets out of his car and starts walking round it, looking at the car and muttering to himself. When I asked him if there was a problem he explained that people kept flashing him and he thought that there was a problem with his car. "Is your fog light on?" He didn't know, he didn't know where it was, or where the fog-light on indicator was on the dash. Obviously he didn't understand how bright a fog light can be, that it can be very distracting to other drivers, and that other drivers may get annoyed by unnecessary distractions. It was a genuine shock to him - I don't think he knew that he had a fog light or how to switch it on (and off).
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Those drivers who were flashing could argue that they were flashing legitimately:
We assume the foglight driver is in control of their car and it's controls - to assume otherwise would mean that driver shouldn't be on the road and let's give them the benefit of doubt - then that driver should be aware that their foglight is on.
If the driver has seen the other road users in their mirrors then they will realise that they're dazzling drivers behind and switch off the foglight.
If they don't switch the light off then the other drivers must assume they haven't been noticed and must alert the foglight driver of their presence.
An appropriate way of alerting another road user of your presence is with a flash of headlights. This can also be used when approaching 2nd and 3rd laners who cannot understand the concept of driving on the left - but maybe they can be legitimately passed on the left as their lane of traffic is going slower than your lane of traffic?
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Neil,
The Highway Code refers to traffic moving in queues. The faster queue my overtake the slower queue on either side. My IAM advisor assured me years ago that the minimum number of vehicles in a queue is 2 not 1, and I must say I agree;-)
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Nick,
I suppose it could be said that the speeding motorist is already commiting a crime. The police have to collect evidence, preventing them from doing so might be an offence. Your brick throwing drunk might benefit from a lecture and decide to go peacefully on his way. No offence commited ! If he did throw his brick and you decided to 'assist' him in his escape, two offences commited !
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A perfectly legit defence would be that you noticed the oncoming driver was speeding, a very dangerous practice, so you flashed your lights to make him aware of your presence.
All in accordance with the Highway code, and go ahead and prove otherwise!
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NO! The motorist is not YET commiting an offence and is being prevented from doing so by being warned of the presence of a speed trap.
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I am aware that the best and most used way of warning other motorists of a finance-raising adventure by our friends in the "Early-Retirement Club" is a gesture of "Thumbs-Down" or a pack of 8 smoked rashers waved out of the window.
I am not kidding - the thumbs down is most commonly adopted by HGV drivers (says he working for the company that owns the Haulier of the Year 1999!!! - how many jacknifes on the M5?) Honestly, a thumb down to the windscreen means slow down - rozzers ahead earning their gold stars.
It's a bit like the AA man saluting you or not if the filth were about.
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Among all this cheerful banter I think it is a pity most contributors leave a bitter taste by using Plod, Filth, Rozzers and other loaded words instead of a nice neutral one like Cop (whatever happened to that?). A case (if there is one) usually sounds more convincing without gratuitous abuse. No, I'm not a Boy in Blue.
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Thank you Andrew, I do not mind plod but I find the word filth insulting, and no I am not in the job either
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I agree, whatever happened to PC Plod, eh? Well, I'll tell you. He stopped trying to catch difficult to corner criminals and started picking on easy to catch generally law-abiding people.
My evidence? The following is a list of the times (I can remember) I've been a victim of crime.
Car Radio stolen London
Burgled London
Burgled Manchester
Burgled Sale
Car Radio stolen Sale
Burgled Sale
Victim of hit and run in Manchester ***SEE BELOW***
Motorbike vandalised Sale
Motorbike stolen Sale
Motorbike stolen Manchester
Attempted motorbike theft Manchester
Assaulted on bus in Manchester
Car broken into Portadown
Burgled Cambridge
In every case I had taken reasonable precautions, e.g locked bike to lamppost, locked house doors and windows, sat talking to a friend of mine on the bus, etc.
The Police have never (and will never) catch the tw*ts who committed any of these crimes. They have never even shown any interest in trying. Their attitude is "We'll turn up so you can say we did for your insurance" - not that I was insured every time. However, I gave them the benefit of the doubt; they had a difficult job to do.
The thing that turned me against them was when I went to report the hit and run. My car had been parked while I was on holiday (while I was away I was burgled). After plod had been to show his face after the burglary I found that someone had hit my company car on the road. I trotted off to the police station, told them it had happened some time in the past week, and was told that as it may have happened more than 24 hours ago, if I reported it, the copper would have to arrest me for failing to report an accident in the due time.
At that point, they stopped being coppers and became pigs.
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Despite your examples Vin I'm with Andrew and Stuart on this. I don't want to get too heavy because a lot of the banter here is meant to be light hearted.
But it isn't really on to be offensive to a group of people because of their occupation/interests/nationality and so on.
Perhaps you live in a fast paced life where there is no time to deal with annoyances in a relaxed way.
We have needed the Police just once in the past ten years when a £1500 trailer was stolen from the yard. They were helpful but realistic that we would never see it again, I didn't blame them personally for that. The guilty guys were those who took it and it is the sysyem that prevents them from being locked away, despite their antics being known to the Police.
The few Police that cover our huge rural area would probably love to have four times as many cars on at night, but it isn't their fault the sysyem doesn't do that.
And those are those here who use insulting terms because they are constantly pushing their luck in everyday driving (speed?). Regard it as a bit a a challenge to get away with it by all means but don't insult the guys whose job it is to stop you...if you get caught "it's a fair cop"...and that's an acceptable term for all.
David
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David
I agree with your sentiments, and it does no good being rude about the police - especially if you come into contact with them.
The problem is that many postings here are somewhat anti police, and you have to consider why. There's clearly much bad feeling about picking on the motorist as an easy target, and many comments about lack of help when a 'real' crime has been committed. These comments are also regularly seen in the press. The cause may be the basic problems in the Police Force itself - too few police 'on the streets' and 'performance targets' which drive the actual officers to act this way. With the opportunity to increase revenue by using speed cameras to supplement Government funding it is no surprise the things are proliferating. This may even be the first step to the Govermnet ducking out of fully funding the Police - heaven help us all! It may be the attitude of the officers themselves. I don't know. But, whatever the cause, it's worrying. Society depends on them to preserve law and order, and respect for the law seems to be declining. As you say, the attitude of 'it's a fair cop' seems to be disappearing, and current attitudes seem to promote 'rights' without pointing out that with 'rights' come responsibilities. Both 'sides' recognising this may bring some balance back.
Regards
John
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I apologise for my previous use of what can only be described as an offensive term.
I have only been caught speeding once, i was polite to the police and they were also very polite.
However, a friend of mine had his new 328 stolen from his garage, the thieves broke into his house, stole his keys and laptops. When the police came they as good as said that it was his fault for owning a nice car, and that he shouldn't have left it with a full tank of petrol. Hardly friendly neighbourhood police. They seemed to think that it was an inconvenience for them to have to do all the paperwork, nevermind the fact that my friends back door had been booted in and their house invaded.
I suggest that it is all down to the individual police person. Some are extremely zealous and show signs of power madness. Fact of life, some people will always be like that...
Regards
Jonathan
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Don't you feel a prat after clicking "Post" then seeing the spelling/grammar errors. I suppose this is the price of breakfast in one hand and mouse in the other.
Still it happens to the best of us from time to time.
One of the forums I use has the facility for the logged-in user to edit a post (only their own), mind you some of the "conversations" look odd when people go back and remove parts.
David
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David
For the record, referring to the police as "plod" was intended as a non-abusive nickname, in the same vein as some refer to their wives as " 'er indoors".
My brother-in-law is an ex-Met policeman, one of the nicest chaps you could hope to meet, and he occasionally refers to his policemen as "plod".
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I would like to point out that in a certain county, which I am NOT going to name, the Chief has instructed that the primary target is crime and "trivial" motoring offences like speeding are very very firmly on the back burner. In that county there are 2 officers dedicated to speed enforcement, which is not much more than dealing with the cameras that they have to maintain due to political pressure, and the other approx 5998 (I forget the exact figure but its not far off 6000) are dealing with proper crimes, some of which are of course motoring, like DUI, tailgating, etc etc.
The police, despite our/my protests about them being partial to the odd full English in the canteen, (its only jealousy on my part) have in many cases their hands tied behind their backs when it comes to dealing with the swine who are the professional criminals. I read the other day that the average druggie in order to fund his/her/its £500/wk habit has to nick £5000 of stuff every week.
Yes we suffered a car radio stolen from Mrs B's motor a few years back, and yes I reported it and yes I got the same sort of response you did. However I did not have the radio serial no, I had not property marked it. The result was that I felt that I had not even given The Bill an even chance of doing anything, because I would not have even been able to identify my own radio. The result was that I now treat our property differently.
As an add on, and to go off at a tangent, to the above radio theft we were insured with Direct Line and whilst not the cheapest, just, the service they gave was superb. There was a hitch with the replacement radio fitting in that the subcontractor did not fit an auto reverse cassette and I did not spot this at the time of signing off the job. When I noticed this I kicked myself for not seeing it but when a week later Direct Line rang back to ask if all was OK I mentioned this. However when DL said they would replace it I said it was OK as it was my fault in not seeing it and the radio was now inscribed with our house and postcode information. Direct Line would have none of this and overruled all my arguments and I recall their exact words were "We insist on changing this radio, it is not your fault, and we will not have anyone who is not 100% satisfied with our service."
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I have to make something clear, my statement that they are now pigs was an exaggeration; I don't call them that, I just no longer flinch when someone else does.
As for the mystery county mentioned above, I live in Hampshire, where, famously, a woman was prosecuted for drinking water at a traffic light; along with someone for eating a Mars Bar on the M3 (that his wife had unwrapped and handed to him so he wouldn't be distracted from the road).
So, the Police DO shoot themselves in the foot round here and then, presumably, wonder why respect for them is on the decline.
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Vin,
You're right about that one.
Soon they'll be giving tickets for picking your nose at the traffic lights, if it went on the totting up scheme it would clear the roads in the Fens!
David
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Vin
Yes, such incidents don't help, and you have to wonder at the mental processes of the Police force who let such things actually go on. It starts with the individual who reports the offence, but goes much higher when the more senior officers let such prosecutions proceed. I'm just dismayed by how they can consistently shoot themselves in the foot in such a silly way.
What ever happened to the quiet word in the ear for such behavior? Not so long ago that would have done the trick. Now, with the Police reputation dragged down by such incidents, perhaps it doesn't.
regards
John
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John Slaughter wrote:
>
> What ever happened to the quiet word in the ear for such
> behavior? Not so long ago that would have done the trick.
>
Whatever happened to the clip round the ear, worked in my day.
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Back in the days when CB radios were more popular, you could get advance notice of hold-ups and other hazards, diversions, bad weather, accidents, mad drivers, speed traps, lady drivers in short skirts, vehicle faults (flat tyres, lights out or on), badly secured loads, directions in a strange town, etc. on a regular basis.
Government foot-dragging and regulatory obsession did a lot to hasten their demise, but I think that they could have a positive role to play in road safety.
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Brian wrote:
>
> Back in the days when CB radios were more popular, ......, but I think that they could have a positive role to play in road safety.
I can feel a mobile phone thread coming on!
Actually Germaine Greer talked a lot of sense about mobiles in the Saturday Tele a few weeks back, the same week as some joker was having a rant about them on the back page. He had quite a reasoned argument about using the handset until he threw in a line about hands free units being just as dangerous.
In my view CBs are just as bad as hand held mobiles, but a hands free used very sparingly and sensibly as I said in a much earlier thread are less of a problem. Though they could be so if you allow the conversation to dominate your brain.
A colleague suggested a convention the other day re hand held mobiles which I would like to share with the guys and gals in the Back room. He suggested that when you see someone on a hand held you blast the horn long and loud. If enough did it they might get the message.
Over and out
Stuart
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Better still, why not purchase a jammer which prevents mobiles from working (cost about £100) and drive behind, or alongside and watch their call drop off and their expression too.
similar applications could also work in cinemas, metrolink and trains.
www.starportuk.com/21.htm
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David W:
"The few Police that cover our huge rural area would probably love to have four times as many cars on at night, but it isn't their fault the sysyem doesn't do that."
"...if you get caught "it's a fair cop"..."
But it is "their" fault if the "few" are too busy making "fair" cops of technical/trivial motoring offenses.
And is it their job to stop you, or the "real" criminals.
John S:
"Society depends on them to preserve law and order, and respect for the law seems to be declining. As you say, the attitude of 'it's a fair cop' seems to be disappearing, and current attitudes seem to promote 'rights' without pointing out that with 'rights' come responsibilities."
The rights being? To expect the preservation of law and order perhaps.
And why a responsibility to provide additional funds if you pay more attention to the road than your speedo?
Stuart B and All
"hands tied behind their backs when it comes to dealing with the swine who are the professional criminals. I read the other day that the average druggie in order to fund his/her/its £500/wk habit has to nick £5000 of stuff every week."
Apparently, according to government data (the rds link relating to speed bumps on another thread), the majority of dangerous drivers are actually real crimanals too.
Probably another of these multi million government funded scientific studies:
How many people with no criminal records drive dangerously and seriously illegally and have driving convictions? Zero!
How many violent, callous, seriously anti social criminals have serious driving convictions? All of them!
That'll be £2.5 million gov.
Follow up research:
Should we install lots of zero tolerance digital speed cameras which will catch lots of basically law abiding properly licenced fully registered motorists drifting fractionally over the limit because they were watching the road trying to spot why the dual carriageway suddenly had a 30 mph limit.
But no dangerously fast drivers/criminals because they will be driving stolen cars/on false plates/with false identities.
Or should we catch real criminals, lock them up out of harms way, and kill two birds with one stone.
Obviously - go for option one.
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Unfortunately, I think that you will find that jammers are illegal. Additionally, unless the jammer was frequency specific (around 900 to 950 megacycles for mobile phones) you would bu**er up a lot of other equipment e. g. medical, emergency services, etc. within quite a large radius as well as every other legitimate mobile phone conversation.
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You remember years ago when Jack Regan was in the Sweeney (nickname for the flying squad of course)
Aa a consequence of this series the Police themselves began using the jargon as portrayed in this TV series. All harmless of course.
The people who use phrases such as the filth and pigs are doing exactly the same thing. These phrases are in vogue in TV drams series and the people who are using them are simply mimicking what they hear.
I feel sure that the people who visit this site do not mix, associate or come into contact with the dregs of society who regularly use these names.
In fact I worked in prisons for 32 years and do not recall this terminology being in general use at all, so I think they are a product of the media which influences people more than they realise into aping the antics of actors who are simply readiing a script. I think the term pigs for Police was imported from hollywood actually.
Come on fellas wer'e British and we don't wish to sink to this level.
the Old Bill, Cops, Mr Plod, Woodentops all good fun but not Pigs and filth which I find offensive
Alvin
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I use those phrases but am not the sort to run around assaulting police officers. I am a law abiding citizen but have *never* seen the police acting in a way I expect them to - i.e. with discretion, sound judgement and without discrimination.
The trouble with the police and the reason behind "people who use phrases such as..." is that they have missed the fundamental point of running a business, which essentially is what they are doing and we pay for it.
Rule 1. Understand what you customer wants and give it to them!
I am pretty sure the customer, i.e. You & I, do not want the police to concentrate manpower and expense on, for example, petty motoring offences and we would rather they worked on protecting us and our property from those who are the "dregs of society" - right?
Most people only see the police providing manpower to petty crime - 14-day producer for faulty number plate light, for example. When we expect the police to be there for us, the customer remember, they claim a lack of resources.
Example: It is Easter Sunday in London and Oxford Street is closed to all traffic and all shops are closed - it is empty. Meanwhile a protest of some form is underway in Whitehall so there are many police about. Guy Lacey gets stopped by a riot van full of police and fined £20 for going through a red light on a pedestrian crossing on a closed road with no pedestrians - ON HIS PUSHBIKE. OK so I broke the law but let's run through some Primary School Maths.
12 policemen/women (keep the Maths easy) took 15 min to issue the ticket - that's 3 hours at, say £15/hour - £45, not withstanding the cost of processing the ticket, fixed labour costs and so on. Is that a sensible use of resources? Effectively we are the shareholders of Brit Police Plc and should expect them to be as answerable to us as I am to the shareholders of the company I work for.
This was at the same time as the IRA detonated 3 bombs in Central London including the Canary Wharf and Aldwych Bus Bomb. Now ask yourself - were those 3 hours *really* an efficient and effective use of resource?
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Nice one Big Guy - with the exception of Vin you are the most unlucky man on Britain's roads. How the 'ell did they catch you? When riding a bike whilst being chased by the police always think "no number plate", aim for that gap between the bollards and keep the tights/SAS balaclava pulled tightly down over your face. Works every time! Another tip is to always take public transport when attending anti-capitalist riots (unless Daddy can spare the chaffeur for the afternoon).
Adieu!
Paul
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EXACTLY! I accidentally jumped the red light due to a young lady expressing her sexual freedom by commiting a leud act and not getting prosecuted for it!
I'm being a little economical with the truth here.
I *actually* jumped 3 lights and upon stopping at the fourth red light - Tottenham Court Road/Charing Cross Road Interchange (you *don't* jump this one!) I had a tap on the shoulder from Mr PC in his aforementioned riot van.
Copper: "Why have you stopped sonny?"
Guy: "BECAUSE ITS REEEEDDDDD THICKO!"
Copper: "So why didn't you stop at the three you jumped back there"
Guy: "Ah............b*gger"
So in a nutshell, yes I probably failed the attitude test.
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Remember a chat with a Senior Copper some time ago on a Golf Course (Steady Guy not a V/W). Chat came around to Fixed Penalties (as I had just been booked for the umpteenth time for parking on Yellows) - he said that he didn't consider Officers (not Traffic Wardens) as being cost effective when booking Yellow Line offences. He then went on to explain the costings involved in processing the ticket. The Police get zilch, diddley squat from them - the Courts get it all. The cost of issuing a ticket and then processing it is about £20.00 a go for the Police and they get nothing back. However he did not expect his Officers to ignore Yellow Line offences as they are a major source of public whinging.
Guy, what response did you expect from the mobile Cops.......Did you fail the attitude test by any chance ?? ; - )
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Say on the train to stop that person calling the umpteenth call. I like the idea of the boy with the speed trap notice and his brother getting tips. Seems private enterprise at its best. I have now got so used to seeing grey speed cameras that it passes the time on along journey to spot them well in advance.
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I think it was some Lesbian and Gay Protest over the age of consent and the heavy police presence was purely because the ladies were "getting the girls out" as a means of protest.
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So did you miss seeing the red light because your attention was elsewhere?
Cheers
john
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In view of the antagonism which exists between a sizeable section of the motoring public and the police force, I suggest that issues such as speeding fines, vehicle faults and suchlike where danger to other road users cannot be proved be taken out of the hands of the police and be handled by a body such as the Highways Agency as a civil offence and not as a criminal offence.
In that way if we see a police car in our mirror we could stop wondering if we are today's target and be happy that they were going after real criminals and not technical misdemeanors.
in the old days a policeman was someone to call on when in trouble. Today the sight of a police car is just as likely to induce fear as relief.
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