Has anybody else find this, you will enter a large estate which might have a 20 sign usualy hidden under a tree, then the only other sign you see is the 30 sign 20 zone ended 1.5 miles further up the road. Surely they should be repeater signs on each 20 zone?
The road in question is Brantingham Road in South Manchester. I know on all the 40 zones near me there are repeater signs every few yards so there is no way you could not know what the speed limit is.
I've spoken to a few of my customers about this and they were not even aware this road had a 20 limit :(.
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20mph zones, strangley, don't require repeater signs. Instead the entry sign carries the word "Zone" and all exit roads from that area should display the speed that is then in force. The fact that the 20mph sign is not very visible is a bit naughty.
I believe there is not even a requirement to have a 20mph sign on both sides of the road unless the roadway is wider than 5m, whereas this is almost a certainty with other higher speeds.
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Have they got red or black circles around the edges of the signs ?
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The circle is red but there is so many trees round here in the summer they can be hard to see and when driving in traffic its easy to miss. I am now driving in a lot of these zones at around 23mph (indicated 25) as I am no longer sure if its a 30 or 20. Half the time you think it should be 20 and its 30 vice versa there is just no logic. By road is a classic example it becomes 30 then 20 then 30 etc.
The exist roads is fine and is the way I was taught to know if its a 20 zone however on this road all the roads off must be 20 too as its not till you hit the main roads you see a sign that says 30. I know most the speed limits on the roads near me but I did get caught out the first time.
Edited by Rattle on 10/06/2009 at 23:14
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There's a 20 Zone not far from me, it's fairly new. You can't miss it, because they really create the "Zone" feeling, by pinching the road with an island, 2 signs either side acting like a gateway, and as you pass it you go up and over a red raised road section with a big 20 painted on it. This is how a lot of newer schemes end up, and often with speed humps all over the place.
Rattle, if the example you give above has no other obvious features it could be a prime candidate for getting "helpful" repeater signs. There are 20mph areas or streets that do have repeaters, however they appear to be there because other features cannot be implemented, such as speed humps or road narrowing on bus routes etc.
I've also seen 20mph signs in black, which presumably are non enforceable without a red roundel. I may be wrong but I believe originally no 20mph was enforceable as it wasn't recognised, and they were more trials than anything, and included square signs, and signs all in black and so on.
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The road in question is a long straight and fairly wide road but they are humps and there is a little thing which makes traffic go one way but this is the first part of the road, then for the rest of a good mile there is nothing. The problem is most people just fly through this road at 30mph+ which makes it even more confusing
This streetview link should show the problem, there really isn't enough to indicate its a 20.
tinyurl.com/mvevjd
There is also a road near me with lots of bumps and narrow bits etc and its a 30 it is just so confusing.
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Beat me to it! I just been driving the road on streetview... I found some end of zone 30 signs quite clearly at the junction with Egerton Road North, but no start of zone signs, and only 2 lots of humps so far, and some fading red road paint!
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Like you've said are some 20 zones which are impossible to miss and more to point would be dangerious and foolish to do more than 20 anyway.
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I see what you mean though. Brantingham Road itself is quite unusually wide for a residential street, and it has hatching down the centre line to spearate traffic, but the wideness of the road has just lead to sporadic on street parking. The only thing I can think of is that that road is a bus route, and is missing the other traffic calming measures seen elsewhere. Somewhere like that could perhaps benefit from a gentle reminder sign. The junction with Morville Road seems newer with a fresh 20 painted on the road coming into it.
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Thats all that is needed, some 20 cirlces on the road itself it will make it a lot easier. I am always looking out for 20/30 signs but never see them where I think they need to be. It is not a bus road either but it does get used as a rat run a lot. I think it is one of them roads where even if it was a 30 I would never do 30 but I would probably do 25-27.
Also that picture must have been taken at 6:00am as its usualy quite a bit busier so I am not questioning why its a 20, I just it was made clear so than when I am 20 I have not got people beeping me behind wondering why I am going so slow.
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I'm sure Brantingham Road is not a bus route, apart from Ring and Ride maybe.
I can't really understand why it's 20, There are no schools on this long stretch and the speeders aren't going to bother anyway. I can understand the 20 on Nell Lane, just round the corner from me, as it's very busy with hordes of swearing kids twice a day.
It's also narrowish with a couple of bends. But why the speed limit 24/7.....no sense in that !
Incidentally, it's the only road I can think of with a ( fairly vicious ) speed bump on a bend...now that's a nice safe feature for the kids, especially in icy conditions....not !
Ted
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Yeah I get that bit of Nell Lane is 20 and it amazes me that I always get tailgated there even at school closing times.
I've never seen a bus go down Brantingham Road. I have not taken a picture yet but Longford Road next to the school has now broken up so badly there are a few 5inch pot holes in it, surely the council should be spending the money on this and not confusing 20 zones which just get confusing.
On a side note do these 20 zones actually get enforced?
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Can't remember my source, but i'm sure that 20 mph zones don't require repeaters if used in conjunction with traffic calming.
Boris
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The first 20 Zone I think that I encountered was in Cornwall and what confused me was the 'exit' sign having driven thro the village centre, i assumed that I was going from a restricted area to NSL. I could easily have picked up a flash as I accelerated upto 50 mph, before encountering the next (proper) NSL sign. I think that I even made a comment to SWMBO of ' where did I go into a 30?'
p
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Our road is part of a "20" zone but I have never seen any enforcement.
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I'mglad it's not just me who finds these 20 mph zones confusing.
They've brought some in round my way at work (LB Brent). The signs are higher up than normal height and difficult to spot, and there are no repeaters at all. I'm sure this isn't just to trick drivers, oh no no ;-)
They have painted some 20 roundels on the road, but I would question the legality of these - they are impossible to see in the dark unless you are actively looking for them. (I know we are supposed to keep our eyes on the road, but I think this is taking things a bit too far!)
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So how are you supposed to know what speed limit applies when you "Exit" the zone?
Or are 20 mph zones by definition always entirely surrounded by 30 mph zones?
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When you exist the zone there is always a sign which says what the new limit is, I've seen 20 zones of a 40 etc.
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Try to stay below 50 and you should be all right Rattle. Don't faff about the details. Life's too short.
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Rattle
Just for you (and any other confused others) from the orzez marf
tinyurl.com/mepg9c
dvd
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