In my early twenties I bought a Lambretta (couldn't afford anything else) and passed my bike test but soon "upgraded" to a car. Now I've retired, I yearn for a bike again but can't face the dangerous prospect of sitting around the metal instead of inside it.
I saw my ultimate bike yesterday. It was a Honda Goldwing with a 1500cc flat six engine, leather seats etc. What really appealled was that it was different to the "normal" Goldwing because it was a trike. All I have to do now is work out how much pension to commute to realise enough capital to buy a Honda Goldwing Trike, any guesses how much?
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A two wheel Wing is £16,950, Roger. I should reckon that extra wheel adds at least a couple of grand, unless you can find a second hand one somewhere. A trike is the worst of both worlds, exposed to the weather and stuck in traffic like a car driver.
If you really want three wheels how about a Reliant Robin with the windows removed? :-)
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Get your leg across a serious machine and all those misgivings will disappear. But give some thought to your main likely area of riding: don't be seduced by all the chrome and leather (hell I know it's hard but gramps really knows about this) just yet:
1) predominantly in traffic, non-motorway, get a dual purpose trail-bike 200 cc or so; it's easier to handle, you'll beat all the jams and it costs peanuts to run. Besides you look real sily in the supermarket carpark trying to pick up half-a-ton of motorcycle if you drop it while wiggling behind all those parkers looking for spaces. As happens with a big bike.
2) long haul, touring: your big Goldie rice-burner is ideal. Will deliver everything we bike for, freedom,independence, tons of torque-y power to give that in control feeling, bugs in teeth et al. But don't go for the intercom option if you're taking your partner on the back. Leaving the nagging at home is partly what you got the bike for ;-0
3) cruising around and showing off: get the biggest and shiniest you can afford, then rip it to bits and get out the custom parts catalogs -- and the hell with practicality....
but get ready for possible encounters with divorce attorneys and an insensitive bank manager;
4) don't waste your money on a crotch rocket, you'll never use the performance, they all look alike, you'll get branded as a prat by the police and the public and hey! there's no chrome to polish and admire at the weekends! Besides you'll want to ride like a true bro, not like some demented multicolored gnome obsessed with getting his knee down, with a compulsive death wish obsession about living milliseconds away from becoming road pizza. That's not biking, that's being a ****head. On de track man but not on de road, please for the rest of our sakes.
If you're still nervous, don't get a trike, that won't do anything for you. You're still out there exposed anyway. Bikes have come a long way since Lambretta and today's sticky rubber
and frame design make it very hard to fall off unless you do something silly. Those big babies like the Goldwing and the Vulcan have low c of g's with lots of weight down there and you can feather down your floorboards on a good surface without fear.
That's a big-ticket item you're talking about there. Get some lessons on something smaller before you jump straight on 8-900 plus pounds of throbbing motorcycle and go looking for the horizon.
Take a bike course. Here we have just had the Keith Code School visit us. They go around the world teaching mainly cornering, which is the primary skill you need. Get A Twist of The Wrist by Keith from Amazon and read it. After two hours with this guy or one of his peers you'll realise your bike can do much more than you think and it's all about finding that out and knowing how to use it. The machine is not inherently dangerous, lack of skill in using it is the problem.
Join a club catering for mature (that's mature as in both age and behaviorally). Riding long-haul with an organised group increases the safety of the exercise, will remove your fears, adds to the enjoyment and will open a brand new bike-related social life. Your road skills will improve dramatically and you will feel a general increase in personal sharpness, kind of like going to a mental gym for a regular workout.
Ignore detractors and snides going on about "born-again" etc. Odds are they've never ridden and just want to score points or they're just jealous anyway.
Hope that's not too much for a Sunday, and yee-haw, I didn't even mention Milwaukee's finest (100 years old next year folks and still going strong. If you still want to sneer at Harleys, check out their stock market performance then go figger).
All of this is a bit off your question, but it's saying don't buy a trike, that's an oddball thing. Do it right or nothing. If you do decide to take the plunge, always use good rubber and keep the shiny side up.
This has been a public service announcement on behalf of the serious motorcycling fraternity by Growler Associates and the Manila Mad Dogs MC.
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Growler,
What a great post!
I'm not up to speed on modern bikes and my info mainly comes from the Saturday Telegraph. I see that all the Japanese firms make big capacity bikes for the cruiser market. The Kawasaki VN1660 Classic was mentioned this weekend. They cost £8/9K in the UK.
I realize that they are imitation Harleys but are they worth buying?
Cardew
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I've got a mate with a Heritage Soft tail Classic. It ain't fast, doesn't corner that well and the brakes are somewhat below Moto GP standard. But he isn't interested in speed, takes it easy on the twisty bits and reads the road well ahead. He is as happy as a pig in stuff, for him nothing beats the real thing and he wouldn't be seen dead on a Jap imitation. The odd part falling off now and again is reckoned to be all part of the experience.
Any of the Jap cruisers will probably do all of the above better than a Harley, so if you just want a cruiser and want aggro - free ownership that's the way to go. But there's only one Coco-Cola, and a lot of people will pay extra for the real thing instead of the cheaper supermarket own brands.
By the way, Growler, that was the best bit of biking journo I've read for a long time. Why don't you get a job on Motorcycle News and I might start buying it again.
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Cardew and Tom, thanks for the kind words.
The Kawasaki Vulcan is a fine motorcycle. In fact I was riding a 1997 1500 one over in Cebu 10 days ago in company with a HOg rider. The Big V was dressed up with all the flash billet and chrome add-ons, and with those big loud Cobra pipes and I began to wonder whether Milwaukee had discovered the importance of brakes at last and this was really just a Harley with slicked down hair and wearing a suit for Sunday church.
Add a radiator, a water pump and an electric cooling fan and shaft drive too, and you might think those men from the eponymous Japanese city had been over there with the good ole boys telling Willie G. the family still had some work to do even after these 99 years. After all, there was still enough of the rumble and roll about the Vulcan to feel like a big bike, and for once Kwakkers hadn't painted it that Toys 'R Us green like the other bikes they make. It was that huge I had no trouble finding it in the car park anyway.
Certainly it had all the comfort and style of the HD Road King, its nearest equivalent, one of which I have just sold. But that neat snicky flick of the toes to shift gears felt wrong somehow and I missed that all-or-nothin' 1946 John Deere crash from first up to second where you Harley needs the entire thigh-to-toe muscle complex to make it do what it's told. And what's this? Positive neutral selection? But I like my boots with that gouge on the left toecap....
Three master cylinders, 3, count 'em and a wiring diagram like the Tokyo underground. I think I'd want to make friends with a mechanic with a deep affinity for a big mother like this. Handling, comfort, power, quality of fit and finish, looks, absolutely. And the price, sure, way more affordable than a Harley. But check out Hog residuals vs Japs. Where I am the Big Pigs barely depreciate at all, and even in UK hold their own pretty well as far as I can tell.
The current 88 cu in twin cam I've got in my softail is about the most radical thing Harleys have done engine wise for years, but compared with the Japs it's to mechanical sophistication as a DC-3 is to an Airbus A330. Maintenance is thus simple and generally low cost.
That's why there are a lot of DC-3's still flying. Check out a major repair bill on the motorcycling equivalent of an A330, but make sure you're sitting down first.
I enjoyed riding the Vulcan, I couldn't fault it, but would I feel comfortable showing up on it for a Manila Mad Dogs' MC ride? Nobody would say anything adverse - but it's a body language thang.... To borrow your analogy, more people really do drink Coke than Pepsi.
And this is where the mystique starts. HD's are simple-spec off the line for one reason. Detractors confuse this with old-fashionedness, but that's because they don't bother to try to understand this is Milwaukee's USP (not to mention highly profitable after-market strategy: accessories and clothing).
Everybody makes their Hog look different as soon as they get their hands on it. You don't have to change your bike every year but you can change the way it looks any time you like. May not even cost that much -- new paint, or some of my pals swap bolt-ons among themselves when they get tired of whatever it is they've got. In some cases the only Harley thing about their rides is the tank badge. Furthermore the damn things never go out of style: you can pitch up with a leaky 1950's knucklehead motor stuffed in yours with a neat paint job and you'll be as cool as you would be on the latest Kings Road cruiser in Fred Warr's showroom.
Aggro-free riding? As for reliability the HD V-twin engine these days is as basic as basic gets and mechanical failure is rare. You can do most of the service work yourself, especially on the carburated versions. If you want more poke there are plenty of engine bits to buy. The rear belt drive goes for years, is light and cheap and needs next to nil attention over thousands of miles. This remains a rare Harley innovation while others still fuss about with heavy shafts or gloop-covered chains and sprockets.
Sure the thing vibrates. Proper motorcycles do.
Any Harley, park it up somewhere, and at least one person is going to say "hey, nice bike you've got there.." Why is that? You tell me.
My current one incidentally is a pearl blue 2001 Softail Standard 1450 cc, just bought it, untouched mechanicals but changed the wheels, bars, brakes and added lashings of billet and chrome. It is just drop dead gorgeous. Park it up and I defy you not to turn back for another look. Babes love 'em too. Growlette is all over it. QED.
Hey RogerL and Mark, sorry.
But, given this is (was!) Roger's topic before I thread-jacked it, I would say start with Japanese and find out if you like the bike thing after all first. And get something a bit less weighty than a Vulcan or Goldie. Test ride a few to find one which feels good to you. It's like a good suit or pair of jeans, you'll know when you've found it. That's more important than what the salesman or BIKE mag may want you to think. A mid-range bike will give you all the fun you want at a price you can afford and you won't be ashamed to be seen on it.
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"All of this is a bit off your question, but it's saying don't buy a trike, that's an oddball thing. "
Funnily enough, or not maybe, our latest fatility in Essex (59th this year so far) was a trike rider. Must be pretty unusual.
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One of the best threads for a long time - Growler you really should see if a UK/USA magazine would publish a column written by you "Letter from Manila" perhaps.
Think I'll get a Enfield Bullet and upstage you - serious street cred there!
Marcus
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Buy a Caterham
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There’s a lot of info written above and I haven’t read it so if this has been posted already forgive me.
The highest casualty rate these days is amongst “born again” bikers. There is a tremendous difference between the older bikes and a modern sports bike (or an other come to that!). There a lot of courses to get you back up to speed (pun unintended). Get on one and develop your skills so that you are safe and also so you can use the bikes full potential.
Sorry about the egg sucking, but we don’t want you to be a statistic.
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The trike rider I referred to above was apparently in his mid forties.
According to a friend who lives near where it happened there was a hot air balloon very low close by at the time, so one or more of the drivers involved may have been distracted.
So: keep your eyes on the road.
I was in my bike dealers on Saturday when a guy came in asking about bikes. He hadn't ridden for some years but had sold his house and had a bike budget available that would get him practically anything on the market. He was well built so he would look OK on a Harley or Gold Wing, anything much smaller and he would look as if he was perched on it.
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Roger,
If its really 40 odd years since you last rode a "bike" (not sure a lammy counts), then my advice is go to one of the CBT training centers and do a refresher course. Any bike shop near you will be able to recommend one. A 60s scooter will have been a very different ride from a bike even then, hand change for the gears for one thing, so you are really starting again. Could I suggest forgetting the Gold Wing and HDs untill you have a couple of thousand miles under the belt on something a bit easier to ride first off. In this case Im talking about some of the older style 500 Jap twins such as the Kawasaki ER5 still available for about £3300. They have enough power to more than keep up with the traffic and also are modern enough to upgrade to something else with out much difficulty, though not maybe a HD.
Bill
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Good advice from Bill. Another aspect to what he says is that way you won't have made a big financial mistake if you decide afterwards a return to 2 wheels is not for you. I have known a good many mid-lifers who find themselves with a bit of spare cash and fancy a toy go out and spend heaps on an expensive machine. Pretty soon they find they can't get on with it or their Bitter Half gives them a hard time and they sell it, usually at a loss (that's how I got my latest HD, tee-hee).
The ER5 is a nice uncomplicated bike and easy to find a buyer for if the above comes to pass.
On a tangent, I get a bit tired of this wretched "born-again" tag. There are a lot more "should-never-been-born-at-alls" on 4 wheels.
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Good advice from Bill. Another aspect to what he says is that way you won't have made a big financial mistake if you decide afterwards a return to 2 wheels is not for you. I have known a good many mid-lifers who find themselves with a bit of spare cash and fancy a toy go out and spend heaps on an expensive machine. Pretty soon they find they can't get on with it or their Bitter Half gives them a hard time and they sell it, usually at a loss (that's how I got my latest HD, tee-hee).
The ER5 is a nice uncomplicated bike and easy to find a buyer for if the above comes to pass.
On a tangent, I get a bit tired of this wretched "born-again" tag. There are a lot more "should-never-been-born-at-alls" on 4 wheels.
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Here's my suggestions:
Fours (4's are Considered better by most.)
XJ 600 Diversion
XJ 900 Diversion
Bandit 600
Parrallel Twins
ER500
GPZ500
GS500
CB500
V Twins
SV650
Of those the Bandit is best outright. The GS will be available *new* for £2600. The SV is the best of the twins. Lot's of people hate Jap Parallel twins. I've ridden the GS & GPZ and found them to be fine.
Go for the Bandit.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Toad,
I considered the Bandit and Hornet as two possibles but thinking of the audience I thought they may be a bit frenetic, which is why I suggested the ER500 the others are as good. I have ridden both and considered the Honda to be the better of the two, but the Bandit is the best for wheelies.
bill
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Tut tut, bad habits already. Perhaps he should get the Goldwing after all, I've never seen anyone do wheelies on one of those....
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Toad, I considered the Bandit and Hornet as two possibles but thinking of the audience I thought they may be a bit frenetic,
Never ridden a Bandit but I'd have thought it would be in a fairly low state of tune. If the ER is anything like the GPZ it's not exactly a grandads bike.
Agree about the Hornet. Nutters bike.
All in all he can't go wrong with any of the bike listed in this thread...
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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"(4's are Considered better by most.)"
By most of whom? I've always found them a bit buzzy, although I'll make an exception for the Honda Blackbird, which has a balancer shaft (and which therefore demonstrates the need).
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"(4's are Considered better by most.)" By most of whom?
Bike mags.
Personnally I've riden parallel twins and found them fine.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Twins are de riguer. Parallel twins need however to be re-designed into a "V" shape, a la Milwaukee. The one exception permitted to this rule is the 1960-1 Bonneville for which special despensation will be granted.
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The reasonable options are:
1. Something under 600 cc. Insurance reason
2. About 500cc. So it doesn't scare you witless when you first get on it.
3. Something with a small fairing. Getting wet is still not funny.
I could go into build quality, but that is v.subjective. Thinking Honda CB500 here.
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Yamaha Fazer 600.
Best alround bike for under 4000.Might even get a new old model for that.
Does everything you could want.I,ve had mine since new (98) and I have been out with lots of more powerful bikes but this thing holds its own easily albeit with a lot of revs.
As Honest John might say RECOMMENDED !
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Fazer's a cracking ride, but for someone coming back to riding the Bandit is almost there, a bit more sensible and there are some great deals to be had. (Yes, I used to have one! Currently a VFR800 owner but miss the nimble Bandit a tadge)
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Yeah the Fazer is *fantastic*.
But it's basically a sports bike in all but name. Too quick for us old codgers!
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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While not wishing to upset Growler in any way, I think 90 degree V's are preferable to 45 degree ones - certainly better balanced. 180 degree (i.e. flat) V's are even better, of course...:-)
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Ahha, I see through that one. You mean those Italian things with frames made of scaffold pipe that spend half their time in the shop being fixed.
Flat twins, yes those Russian Urals are quite something, aren't they. Not sure I'd want to pitch up at the local Stabucks on one though ;=D
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Hmmm - nothing wrong with Urals, AFAIK (apart from street cred, obviously). Never too sure if they were a direct copy of early Beemers, or just a lookalike.
I see that even Harley are widening their angles a bit with the V-rod. That one even has a balancer, so it might not vibrate enough for you.. ;-)
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The Ural traces its ancestry back to the WWII German military BMW and sidecar outfit of the type you see being commandeered by Steve McQueen as he escapes from Stalag Luft VIII yet again in those old movies. The early ones were a direct copy.
Hey, the twin cam 88 cu in I got has a balancer too. Or so it says.
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"..the twin cam 88 cu in I got has a balancer too. Or so it says."
That's what the second cam's for, presumably...
What is the world coming to?
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Thanks for all your input, I had already realised myself that starting from scratch with a CBT was essential. I was intrigued however by one suggestion of a Caterham Seven. Now didn't they do that in a V8 version, or was that Westfield?
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The BMW Funduro 650 single is often overlooked, but makes a fine bike to get back into the swing of things. A friend of mine bought one to pass his test on, direct access, and he's very happy with it.
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If you don't mind me saying, amongst all the bikes suggested, one hell of a difference is how tall / large you are.
Between the GS500, ER5 et al. there should be something for your
shape, though...
NoComment
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