It's been winding me up for years.
I try not to get wound up by anything when I'm driving. Getting wound up adversely affects your driving.
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But winding up molluscas should make them go faster.....:-)
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When I travel on dual carriageways or motorways at night, I'm only really concerned about other peoples rear lights and personally someone driving on sidelights on the opposite carriageway would make my life easier. Driving on well lit roads in good visibilty on sidelights is fine by me.
What REALLY winds me up are people who think they are the police who will do things as described by previous posters and therefore most likely to cause an accident or road rage. Probably the same people that insist you clear the middle lane immediately, when there is no-one in the outside lane, and then go on to overtake on the inside. These are people who obviously have taken and passed the advanced advanced drived pass plus plus test and therefore are "perfect"
There is no law that mandates the use of headlights (yet) in well lit areas. If people spent more time looking straight ahead instead of the rear view mirror, the world would be a safer place.
Dont have a problem with modern day fog lights, they dont dazzle me. But I have big problem with HIDs. Some factory fitted ones are bad enough but all those illegally retrofitted ones are effing terrible.
I rarely see anyone driving on just sidelights in an unlit area at night and quite frankly I don't think it would in be possible for the driver to see where he was going.
However some cars are very badly designed (my Corsa D is an example) - its quite possible to think the lights are on when they're not (the dash is lit up). Also turning fogs on and off and working out if they're on or not requires a combination of university training and clairvoyance.
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Also turning fogs on and off and working out if they're on or notrequires a combination of university training and clairvoyance.
I disagree; it simply requires the driver to RTFM! ;-)
Fog lights are required to have a repeater warning light on the dash or the switch; commonly known by motorcyclists as an "idiot light" which is fairly self-explanatory, these inform you if said lights are on, assuming that is that you haven't been flashed by the motorist behind who you've been dazzling for the last five miles!
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Fog lights are required to have a repeater warning light on the dash or the switch;
Unfortunatly the idiot light isn't always well positioned, on a ford escort it is positioned too close to the wheel.
I have to move my hand and lean slightly to the right to see it, so if i ever switched it on by accident I wouldn't spot it as I have to be activly looking for it. The good design feature of the fog light though is that once you turn the headlights off or switch off the ignition the fogs stay off.
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What REALLY winds me up are people who think they are the police who will do things as described by previous posters and therefore most likely to cause an accident or road rage. Probably the same people that insist you clear the middle lane immediately when there is no-one in the outside lane and then go on to overtake on the inside.
If its possible to be overtaken on the inside, then why the hell are you still in the overtaking lane??
the middle and outside lanes, are 'overtaking' lanes and as such should not be used as 'running' lanes UNLESS traffic volumes dictate overwise....
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middle and outside lanes, are 'overtaking' lanes and as such should not be used as 'running' lanes UNLESS traffic volumes dictate overwise....
ST is quite right. If you are a bit dozy or don't want to drive your tramlining Porsche or whatever in the nearside-lane HGV ruts, fair enough. But if you are then going to mimse along at a speedometer 70 or less in a fairly clear middle lane, with stuff constantly coming up behind you, you should brave the ruts and stop getting in the damn way.
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But if youare then going to mimse along at a speedometer 70 or less in a fairly clear middle lane with stuff constantly coming up behind you you should brave the ruts and stop getting in the damn way.
Could not agree more. Poor lane discipline is the bane of motorway driving. With all these new "intelligent" signs about, I'm surprised the authorities don't make more use of reminders about this, instead of the perpetual blandishments about drink-driving and spray.
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ST is quite right. If you are a bit dozy or don't want to drive your tramlining Porsche or whatever in the nearside-lane HGV ruts fair enough. But if you are then going to mimse along at a speedometer 70 or less in a fairly clear middle lane with stuff constantly coming up behind you you should brave the ruts and stop getting in the damn way.
So driving at GPS 69.5mph in the middle lane when some backroomer comes at 85-90mph up behind me, tailgates me flashing his lights frantically when theres virtually no one on the motorway and the right hand lane is entirely empty before he veers to the left and puts his boot down to make an example of me makes me the bad guy?
Some of you guys must live on a different planet.
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We do brum. That's why we drive like that. Wait till two of us come past one either side at 130, change lanes in front of you braking heavily and do a handbrake pirouette before coming straight back at you even faster grinning maniacally. That'll learn you. Mimser.
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We do brum. That's why we drive like that. Wait till two of us come past one either side at 130 change lanes in front of you braking heavily and do a handbrake pirouette before coming straight back at you even faster grinning maniacally. That'll learn you. Mimser.
Which just about sums up the state of mind you lot seem to get into when encountering a minor infringment or error made by another driver. I wonder how many of you drive a "safe distance" from the car in front? From what I see nowadays, not many.
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Er, brum, how many of us do you think there are?
I am pretty sure that most people here who make censorious comments about bad driving (I admit to the weakness myself) would leave a proper gap when following other traffic on motorways.
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On a busy motorway, the number of people who leave the "recommended" distance or more in front of them must be 10% or less (only to have the distance grabbed by someone else seconds later)
I'm just trying to make the point that its no use getting on a high horse unless you practice what you preach. The most important rules of the road in my book are to be aware of other road users around you, keep a safe distance away from them, watch out for unexpected events IN FRONT of you and do not break the speed limit even when pressed by others.
And the law probably states your speedo is the correct reference to use when judging speed and not "all speedo underread by 10%" - because they dont....
As for shouting across to other drivers on a motorway whilst driving at speed, who is the greatest risk to the public there?
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I repeat the left hand lane is the 'running' lane ALL lanes to the right are overtaking lanes, just what is so hard to understand there????
www.2pass.co.uk/motorway.htm
'When you are on the main carriageway of the motorway, remain in the first lane until you get used to the speed. If you need to overtake you must return to the first lane as soon as possible but only if its safe to do so! Many motorists try to stay in the overtaking lanes for normal driving. This is bad practice and causes inconvenience and tailbacks and annoys other users.'
I believe it is LAW that you should stay on the inside lane except when overtaking....
www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycod...2
'Lane discipline
264
You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, HA traffic officers in uniform or by signs.
[Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9 & 16(1)(a), MT(S)R regs 4, 8 & 14(1)(a), and RTA 1988, sects 35 & 186, as amended by TMA 2004 sect 6]'
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I think Brum was referring to an empty motorway when, frankly, who gives a......?
Don't do 'the law is the law' thing and 'educating' another driver who is right in those circs is a bit immature. Someone lane hogging when real lane discipline would make difference is a different thing.
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Im not 'doing 'the law is the law' thing... middle lane hogging is dangerous... no 2 ways about it...
case in point, along the M40 between High Wycombe and Beaconsfield, there are many accidents, and I have my own theory to why, based on what I often see, and one morning (6am) experience I had.
That day, i was travelling along said stretch at approx 70mph (in the running lane) when I found myself catching up a middlelane hogger.
having caught him up (he was doing approx 50 mph) I decided it wasnt safe to go to the outside lane, overtake him, then cross back to the inside lane before the Beaconsfield turn (the one I wanted), so I backed off and matched his speed I stayed a couple of car lengths back from him, so he should have seen me in his mirror.
as we approached the 200yard (metre) marker, I was indicating my intention to leave the motorway, he started to move into the inside lane without indicating.
I gave a short beep on the horn, at which point he swerved into the outside lane - he had no idea I was on the motorway! (thank goodness the outside lane was empty)
I had been within his view, although mostly more than 2 car lengths, for probably 2 miles, and he hadnt got a clue I existed!
there was absolutely no reason for him to be in that lane, other than ' I pay my road tax, so im entitled to use whichever lane I like'
going back to Nsar's comment ' think Brum was referring to an empty motorway when, frankly, who gives a......?'
what if an EV was on a call, doing 120mph, on that empty motorway? I think they WOULD give a............!
Edited by Webmaster on 23/11/2008 at 03:12
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going back to Nsar's comment ' think Brum was referring to an empty motorway when frankly who gives a......?' what if an EV was on a call doing 120mph on that empty motorway? I think they WOULD give a............!
Every EV or police car I've seen EXCEEDING the speed limit on a motorway has been travelling exclusively in the outside lane. I expect thats what they're trained to do.
In the example of the "inconsiderate" driver ST gives, I also suspect that in the event of an accident, as the the driver behind or by overtaking on the inside, ST would have been held responsible.
Patience is a virtue forgetten by many.
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In the example of the "inconsiderate" driver ST gives I also suspect that in the event of an accident as the the driver behind or by overtaking on the inside ST would have been held responsible. Patience is a virtue forgetten by many.
Patience IS a virtue.... which is why I DIDNT attempt an overtake, and held a safe distance away from the lane hogger, dont forget we were in different lanes, as he started lane changing (without indicating) the toot I gave was very short - at the time the last thing in my mind was the fact he didnt use mirrors or indicators, just that he had poor lane manners - I am not in the habit of putting myself in danger, and although the hour was early, I was wide awake!
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I realise that I won't get the last word with ST but as a last post I would like to make some final comments.
Stopping distance at 50mph is 53 metres or about 13 car lengths NOT "at least 2 car lengths"
Put yourself in the other drivers shoes. You may be tired, you may have bad blind spots in the car you're driving, you may be having a bad day, you may simply be taking it easy and perhaps not concentrating as much as you should.
If someone behind you (possibly tailgating) suddenly sounded his horn in the middle of you executing a lane change manouver what would your reaction likely be? Is he warning you of an unseen danger? Or is he trying to draw attention to highway code and motorway etiquette?
His reaction was obviously that you are warning him of danger...
Although the driver is not "strictly obeying good practice", your actions in sounding your horn are far more irresponsible and could have led to a serious accident.
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Quite agree.....I always pass members of the centre lane owners club on the left as quietly as possible so as not to wake them up ;-)
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I realise that I won't get the last word with ST but as a last post I would like to make some final comments. Stopping distance at 50mph is 53 metres or about 13 car lengths NOT "at least 2 car lengths"
For the last time I repeat we were in different lanes, there was NO other vehicles within sight, so the stopping distance is irrelevant, we happened to be driving the same model of car, so if his mirrors were set correctly I knew he could see me, IF he had bothered to look in his mirrors sometime in the last 3 miles he would have seen me, are you saying that before a lane change you needn't 'Mirror, Signal, Manoeuvre'?Although the driver is not "strictly obeying good practice" your actions in sounding your horn are far more irresponsible and could have led to a serious accident.
So, lets get this right...... Im in the correct lane, under the speed limit, fully aware of road conditions and other road users, road is clear in front of me for at least a mile (except for lane hogger) , I have my dipped headlamps on, catch up said slow moving lane hogger, decide not to undertake, or overtake due to approaching junction, adjust my speed to that of the other driver, start indicating my intention to leave the motorway, and when he starts to lane change, without looking, or indicating, Im wrong for letting him know I exist?
IF he had been 'obeying good practice' he would have seen me at least 20 times, or am I the only one who uses mirrors??
I repeat something I said earlier... this stretch of M40 is well known as an accident black spot.
I intend this to be my last comment on this matter.......
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If you're using your mirrors you won't get in the way of plod going like the clappers on an empty motorway will you?
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At last we agree Nsar!
Mirrors need to be used more than they are, and as a motorcyclist as well as a car driver, I find myself doing a 'life saver' glance over my shoulder before make a lane change.
and in fact, my daughter who is learning to drive does the same!
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Ah the backroom police have spoken having carefully selected selected their quotes to add weight!
Unfortunately a lack of english understanding means they would never make it as a barrister.
The word should and the word MUST are not the same.
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When I travel on dual carriageways or motorways at night I'm only really concerned about other peoples rear lights and personally someone driving on sidelights on the opposite carriageway would make my life easier.
Except that car is virtually invisible to anyone who looks in their rear view mirror, or has dimming side view mirrors. Or, frankly, has normal mirrors since sidelights (particularly if one is out), are only dim glows anyway.
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mfarrow said "The level of street lighting is usually perfectly adequate to view the road in front." but that is not the point, other drivers and pedestrians may not see you, putting head lights on increases there visibility of by a massive amount and dramatically increases you presence, why do bikes not a head light on. Regards Peter
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Driving on dipped headlights in town came to us from Sweden around 1960, and was much discussed. Before that people tended to drive on their faint yellowish sidelights if there was any street lighting at all. In those days too cars quite often only had one rear light, usually somewhere between the centreline of the car and the offside. Before the generalisation of the alternator, car dynamos often couldn't keep up with the demand for juice if the headlights were used for long periods at low engine speeds. That's why good cars were fitted with ammeters.
Driving a hired Herald I was pulled in Park Lane late at night in the early sixties. The CID roughneck who pulled me said he had done so because I had my headlights on. There is always a delay before sensible behaviour really catches on, and some will always resist it for convoluted reasons of their own.
Don't forget that if no one uses headlights the ambient light picture is much more restful, and everyone's eyes get accustomed to the low light levels. Once a fair proportion of cars have their headlights on, everyone gets dazzled by them and they need their own headlights to see in those dark patches between pools of street lighting.
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you putting head lights on increases there visibility of by a massive amount
Your didn't read the rest of my post. Glaring headlights cause mis-judgements in speed, distance, and direction, by making them uncomfortable to look at and therefore hard to focus on. They make indication more difficult to spot, and give no benefit to the driver.
Put it this way, street lighting level is designed to be at a level where all road users can see comfortably at night, and white side lights are an effective and contrasting way of defining a vehicle in the amber light. If you can't see a vehicle on side lights in the road, then you shouldn't be a road user.
Bikes are a different matter. The narrow width of bikes and the lack of two lights at the front make it much harder to read speed and distance. IMHO because of this only bikes should have the priviledge of using dipped beam in built-up areas, whatever the light conditions.
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<< Daytime Running Lights and headlights.>>
Correct me if I`m wrong,but I seem to remember reading somewhere recently that EU regs. are going to change early in the next decade to make these standard fittment to all new cars. And not before time either.
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I generally find that if you put your headlights and rear fogs on in heavy rain, it's fine to go at a fair lick ;-)
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