This is a cry for help.
I run a 1996 Rover 216si new shape car. 2 months ago the engine blew which resulted in my having an ivor searle re-manufactured engine installed. However while the engine is great I am having terrible problems with the cooling system which which just does not seem to function. It did prior to the blowup.Now my repairer has had the car back to bleed the system on numerous occasions, the last time using vacuum equipment. I have called out green flag on several occasions. As I type the coolant has been discharging through the pressure cap on the coolant tank after a short drive (8 miles)The water pump,thermostat,coolant tank pressure cap are all new. The temp gauge is reading way below the horizontal. There is no hot air coming through the heater when full on. It was ok yesterday.
Any suggestions please.
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My initial thought was a faulty thermostat, but you say this has been replaced. However, it could be that the new one is faulty as well. This happened to my brother-in-law on his Beamer 318i a couple of years back. However, reading all the symptoms, this sounds remarkably like what happened to my wife's Renault 21 GTS a few years back. In spite of the best efforts of our eminently capable and trustworthy non-franchised garage, we never got to the bottom of the problem and dropped the car with the fault still in situ. What is certain is that it started soon after a heater matrix had been changed by a franchised Renault dealer, who staunchly denied any connection with the work that they had done, saying that this was a problem that 21's were prone to develop and was largely incureable! HJ, I think in his DT Sat slot, has at some time given advice on a similar problem, which I believe centred on the existence of an airlock in the system but in the case of the Renault, it was bled time without number, to no avail. Sorry to be so negative. Hope you have better luck than we did in solving your problem.
Regards
Ken A
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John I imagine you have looked at all the obvious ones such as having the corrrect pressure cap although you could perhaps try a new one.
I once had a similar experience and that turned out to be a hose which had a loose piece hanging from the inside which acted as a flap. The pressure from the pump effectively closed off the waterway and with the engine switched off it drifted back into the side wall. I have also heard of hoses which have become weak and constrict in use. You haven't mentioned why the previous engine blew !, was this anything to do with overheating and is a carry over to the new engine.
And of course the radiator is another suspect but with you saying the heater isn't working it does make an air lock the most obvious.
alvin
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alvin
Thanks for the reply. I have a new cap and there are new hoses. Not being mechanicaly minded is it a fact that if there is no heat from the heater it could be that the water pump is not working? apart from a possible air lock. What puzzles me is that after the garage sucked the air out using the vacuum equipment the coolant level stayed constant after cooling down but now after coolant pouring out of the pressure cap after a journey the level is now higher when cold!!!! which suggests there is still air in the system. I was told that running the car with the pressure cap removed can get rid of air locks. Is this real?The reason the engine blew is of much speculation but when I spoke to a highly regarded mechanic he was sure it was connected to the situation when my cat converter failed 2 weeks previously. He spoke in terms of backpressure setting a chain reaction!!!!
regards
JDS
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From reading your post you say the temp. gauge reading was below normal when the coolant discharged from the reservoir,therefore this problem is nothing to do with an inoperative radiator fan causing coolant to overflow. The interesting fact is the repeated need to bleed the system-you should only need to do this once.I would pessimistically suggest that there may be a gasket or head problem with your replacement engine,despite it being sourced from a very reputable reconditioner.Combustion gases may be escaping into the cooling system and causing the airlock.
I would suggest you have the system checked for combustion gases in the coolant reservoir.Any garage with a 4-gas analyser can do this.
David Davies (Tune-Up Raglan)
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John,
I have a nasty feeling too that there may be a problem with the new engine's head gasket.
Two possibilities here. First that the exchange engine had a fault in this area from day one and second that the garage that fitted it didn't bleed the system properly initially, causing the system to overheat badly thereby blowing the head gasket.
I think there is only one main bleed point on these engines, under the air cleaner on a metal coolant pipe. I wonder if it is possible to check this for signs this has been unscrewed recently....it should have been.
You ought to stop driving this car now. If you are suffering air locks the temperature gauge may not be showing the true reading within the system....it will not work properly if surrounded by "air".
The same is true of the thermostat. If this is sitting in an airlocked section of the system it will not open even though the engine block temperature has risen to levels that are enough to damage the engine.
You may find Searle's have fitted adhesive "tell-tales" to parts of the engine that change colour and will let them know it has been overheated.
I've dealt with a car and diesel tractor recently, both with failed head gaskets. Their symptoms were so similar to yours......driving OK when cool, odd air locks, strange behaviour of the coolant level, sudden coolant pumping from the overflow, cold heater (in the case of the car).
I have great respect for Searles and would expect them to stand by a faulty engine but do bear in mind my comment about the possibility of the fitting garage being at fault.
By the way it is possible to get most of your symptoms from a faulty thermostat so it would be worth removing that and testing it. It seems so unlikely the new water pump is at fault but I guess it must be worth checking before pointing the finger elsewhere.
You really need a compression test, cylinder leakage test, cooling system pressure test or (as David mentions) gas in coolant detection - perhaps a combination of several to prove this fault.
Good luck.
David W
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David W, you said: "I have great respect for Searles and would expect them to stand by a faulty engine ... ".
I have just been told by a very trustworthy source that Searle's quality can be far from reliable and that it is very difficult to get them to accept responsibility for faults.
I am not prepared to openly publicise the specific details of these allegations because they were given to me with implied confidence but I have no reason to doubt their validity.
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David W, you said: "I have great respect for Searles and would expect them to stand by a faulty engine ... ". I have just been told by a very trustworthy source that Searle's quality can be far from reliable and that it is very difficult to get them to accept responsibility for faults.
Well in that case there doesn't seem much point in contacting them does there?
Let's face it the course of action is the same whether Searles are the best company in the world or the corporate equivalent of Lord Lucan.
Searles are the starting point.
And some people on the site rate DW as a reliable source... [1]
[1] Although claims of 32mph in a Landrover should be taken with a pinch of salt!
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Parp, Parp!
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Toad,
Regarding David's infallibility or otherwise, I have said before on this forum that I have never known him to give bad advice, and this hasn't changed. However, I am privy to information that contradicts David's good but possibly limited experience of Searle and I felt obliged to mention this.
I agree it is time for Searle to be involved and that the course of action is the same whatever the company's standing; I did not suggest otherwise. My message remains as before: "Be ready for a disclaimer and be prepared to persist".
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A few years ago a pal of mine made a reasonable living supplying engines to reconditioners. He knew what engines were in short supply and used to buy from scrapyards - not breakers - and pay a few pounds a ton. Some of his customers used to, and still do, advertise in national weekly magazines specialising in this sort of thing. I've seen some of the re-con engines as well. One memorable example was a fully guaranteed unit from a reputable supplier (full page banner ads etc.). A quick peek down a plug hole showed pistons covered in carbon. Nicely painted exterior though.
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To John D from another John D . ... the advice you have been given has been good - what has been described is typical of an engine which has a cylinder head gasket fault or even a cracked head. Do not attempt to drive this vehicle to that place just that little bit further down the road known as Destruction.
Any decent re-manufacturer of engines would take this problem on board and make a point of getting to the bottom of it. Have you discussed this with the re-manufacturer? I would be surprised if they would be negative about it if you approach them in the right way.
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Hi Johndabs
Searles are arranging to pick the car up from home and transport it to a local garage for investigation and rectification under warranty. Fingers and all other parts crossed. great to here everyones opinion which in majority points to the head gasket.
I shall keep you posted.
regards all
John D S
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Dizzy,
I was flattered by Toad's defence of my honour. In turn his posts should be read with a double smilie after each sentence....hence the "parp parp".
Seriously I have taken your comments about Searle's (including the additional information-thanks) and filed them in that "for consideration" slot.
David W
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Yeash Dizzy - and I certainly didn't mean that post to be as aggressive as it seems on second reading!
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Parp, Parp!
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Thanks, Toad. I often write things that seem agressive when they weren't meant to be. That's the trouble with electronic mailing - no easy way to vary the tone except with a :-) ... or a P**********
Anyway, I'm very pleased to hear that Searle is taking a look at the engine. I would love to hear that I'm wrong and Searle takes care of any fault without argument. It could even be that our publicising helps in this.
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Well all parties are honouring their obligations. it seems that both Ivor Searle and the garage that installed the engine have compromised so that ivor searle will supply another engine and have it installed with the garage who fitted the previous one meeting the labour costs. The upshot of the damage was hairline cracks in the liners. The excess heat also distorted the inlet manifold. But what really caused it to happen? Both parties beg to differ but Searles had the radiator checked by Serck who inpected it and concluded that it was not fit for purpose. This I find strange since there was free water flow through it and the cooling fins were all in place and it was leak free. So what made it unfit for purpose?
Well we shall see when it returns next week but I wont hold my breath.
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Well done John, both parties acting exactly as they should.....but perhaps sometimes don't.
A full report of trouble free motoring soon hopefully.
David W
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Well I have now had the car back 3 weeks with a replacement Ivor Seale engine and have notched up 2000+ miles. So far so good.There has been no loss of coolant like I had with the previous replacement unit. In fact the car drives really well. The engine was supplied free by Ivor Searle and installed by their nominated garage with the labour costs being paid for by the garage that installed the previous replacement engine. The reason for the engine failure was in the opinion of the nominated garage was that after the previous replacement engine was installed the cooling system was not bled completely therefore overheating took place with the result that the liners failed allowing gases to enter the cooling system.
Oh and the car was delivered back completely valeted.
John D S
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