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As the title suggests, this thread is for all things Formula One and other general motorsport related stuff.
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Autosport now saying:
The World Motor Sport Council has yet to agree on a final verdict, despite our earlier newsflash suggesting otherwise.
Sources have told autosport.com one of the options currently reviewed is to exclude McLaren from both the 2007 and 2008 championship - in line with the World Motor Sport Council's decision in July.
However the FIA said no decision has yet been made, although a verdict is expected imminently.
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If the FIA do decide to ban the McLaren team, you can't imagine a half billion pound company being put on ice for 2 years & surviving. The implications & repercussions from this would surely make F1 as we currently know it, history.
If 'spying' were to be properly policed & sanctions enforced generally, the normal ebb-and-flow & movement of personnel would surely come to a halt - without a complete erasing of personal memory, who's to say 'intellectual property' was not transferred? A long time ago I signed the Official Secrets Act (or more accurately, signed a form foreswearing transport of official information in any form) - if I had remembered a 'secret' & later divulged or used it, I would have been in breach & likely for prosecution.
I can't imagine that currently, any of the top 3-4 teams have much difficulty in getting any technical info they want about any other team. Whether that info is of any practical use, other than knowing how they're using the full 'width' of the regulations, is a very moot point. F1 cars don't contain one vital 'magic' ingredient, they're intimate concoctions of every small variable of hardware, software & driver profile. To imagine great advantage can be gleaned from seeing a technical description of a car, is a bit like thinking you could make Turner prize winner from looking at Tracy Emin's bed.
The FIA should, imho, leave any actions to the courts, (in either Italy or England) for any provable trangressions either criminal or civil to be proved or otherwise.
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I don't think they'll suspend McLaren. Bernie won't let them. It'll make Ferrari look very carp to win against no opposition. No one will like it, not even the Ferraristi.
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If they are suspended the Mcs will probaly run under another banner, Prodrive perhaps, saves jobs and provides competition though still penalises cheating.
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Verdict is in.
McClaren will lose all their constructor's points and be fined $100m.
This might be a really naive question, but can they afford a fine that huge if they don't succeed at appeal?
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fined $100m.
Can I pay a fiver a week ?
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Wow. A fine like that would make even David Beckham's eyes water.
What's the betting it'll be reduced on appeal?
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..and does all this cast a shadow over golden boy Lewis Hamilton's achievements so far?
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>>fiver a week
LOL!
Hope this doesn't turn F1 into the farce that the Tour de France became this year - not drug related I know, but the happenings off the track dwarfed those on the track and what was a good event became a waste of everyone's time.
Right motivation, wrong result.
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07 Kia Ceed LS
05 Citroën C4 VT
04 Mazda MX5
85 Mini Mayfair
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A sad day for Formula 1. I hope it doesn't damper spirits in the team in the run-up to the end of the drivers' championship.
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Mike Farrow
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We earnestly hope that they will trample all over Ferrari at Spa. Fingers crossed.
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We earnestly hope that they will trample all over Ferrari at Spa. Fingers crossed.
Lud, you normally seem a sensible sort of bloke - they have just be found guilty of gross cheating! Do you condone drugs in athletics and cycling?
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"A sad day for Formula 1"
I quite agree. I might just stop watching.
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Would have all this happened if Mclaren had been french or italian, I wonder?
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Ron is to give his reaction at 1915 - doubtless he'll be his normal impassionate self.....
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I'd say dispassionate. I'm sure it's not what he's feeling!
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JBJ
Ron - dispassionate...? Never....
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'dispassionate'
adjective - unaffected by strong emotion or prejudice; "a journalist should be a dispassionate reporter of fact"
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JBJ
You could never say that about Ron - he's always choking up after a race.
You're right though; "impassioned" might have been better than impassionate.
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"about Ron"
Sorry SL, I knew what you meant - but although he clearly feels deeply, he always seems pretty cool when making statements, at least by comparison with the Italians! Who knows what he's going through at the moment, though - I'd be incoherent...
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Michael Schumacher never minded what he had to do to get his points. He seems to have taught Ferrari all his bad habits.
I seem to remember that Montezemolo said recently that he wouldn't feel disapointed if Ferrari won the champoinship in the courts.
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There's a thought. He could afford the fine, takes over the team, merges it with Ferrari - "Ferrari" win championship.
JH
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It's certainly a punitive fine, even for McLaren & they've effectively handed Ferrari the constructor's title, which will again 'fine' McLaren - I assume any payment for points will also be nulled.
I do think Ferrari and/or their cohorts have made a terrible mistake. By pursuing this they'll win a de-valued constructor's title & alienate every other team. The knock-on effect will probably be financial re-structuring for McLaren, but they'll win the Driver's title - the one that 'counts' for the public. I can't imagine Ferrari will benefit from any goodwill from the public or (perhaps most importantly) other teams, who are the feeder 'clubs' for their technicians & other staff. I predict a slow withering on the vine for Ferrari over the coming seasons.
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I see it a totally different way and think McLaren got off lightly. They have been found guilty and I presume it has been proven that they have benefitted from the stolen data. Both their drivers points are allowed to stand. This seems grossly unfair on Felipe and Kimi, who probably won't win drivers title because of 2 drivers driving cars with stolen intellectual data on them.
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>>They have been found guilty
Of what exactly? and what court and jury was this by the way?
>>and I presume it has been proven that they have benefitted fromthe stolen data.
And this proof is what exactly. Have they found Ferrari technoclogy or ideas on the car? have they proved that the spying was dont by mcclaren? or the employee who was PASSED thats PASSED the information gave it to mclaren?
There is no proof or guilt of anything.
on Felipe and Kimi who probably won't win drivers title because of 2 drivers driving cars with stolen intellectual data on them.
what is this stolen intelectual data? And it wasnt stolen. A ferrari employee stole it. Did mcclaren by it or handle it or put it on their cars?
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< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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Its not about a Ferrari shaped wing or such like. Its about knowing how they set the car up, their fuel and cooling capacities, the launch systems. Things like that. THe fact is Coughlan got dossier, (a crime to receive stolen goods by the way), then continued to work for McLaren despite Neale and Whitmarsh knowing he had secrets.
I agree AE, if there was no proof of any wrong doing it would be harsh, but that seems not to be the case
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Ferrari may well get the constructors championship, but they have far from won it!!!
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