DD, what did you expect? Honour amongst thieves?
It would appear that Ron "Daz"* Dennis is having a few "grey" moments!
*Daz -- Whiter than white.
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The first corner tomorrow is going to be "interesting".
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Dramatic indeed, but the press conference seemed surprisingly calm. Is the whole thing a charade?
I'm not convinced by the TV people talking about 'body language'.
Who was it a few years ago who strode across the gravel trap to the driver who had taken him off and bopped him twice on the helmet in front of the cameras? Some Latin no doubt. Anyway, that's what I call body language. Anyone might seem a bit squirmy and sour after driving a F1 car.
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Unless I'm very much mistaken, it was Nelson Piquet who got a bit cross with Elisio Salazar at Hockenheim.
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Thank you CV, seems entirely possible...
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Piquet hasn't mellowed with age. Apparently he has had to go on speed awareness type course as he and his wife had racked up too many points for speeding and other motoring offences on their respective licences.
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>Piquet hasn't mellowed with age. Apparently he has had to go on speed awareness type course as he and his wife had racked up too many points for speeding and other motoring offences on their respective licences.<
That might crack a smile out of Nigel Mansell then. ;-)
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Unsporting behaviour by Alonso / his mechanics.
It was a shocking and frankly cowardly way to behave. Tough it wasnt, cunning it wasnt, skillful it wasnt, deceitful and cowardly it was. In my opinion it moves Alonson in the realms of a lower life form who deserves little or no respect from his teammates or oponents. I hope someone punts him off the track. If I were hamilton it would be me who punts off the spineless Alonso.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Disgraceful behaviour, but I have to admit to a sneaking admiration for anyone who can rise / stoop to that level of treachery. It's what makes sport so fascinating, who wants to put up with too much of that Corinthian Spirit rubbish?
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Apparently Alonso is under investigation from the stewards. Much like Schumacher was in the Monaco GP last year when he famously parked his Ferrari on the first corner. Alonso could possible be placed to the back of the grid or have that last lap erased, which would place him 8th. We shall see.
It will be interesting what the official explanation from McLaren will be. From the TV pictures you could clearly see Ron was unhappy as he was shown manhandling one of Alonso's entourage. James whasitisname said who he was.
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Unsporting behaviour by Alonso & his mechanics.
Indeed, couldn't have more so short of putting a screwdriver into Hamilton's tyre. What it does though, is give such piquancy to the race tomorrow (..and the series) that the makers of Big Brother will probably watch just to get some publicity ideas for their own dreary programme. ITV must be in raptures.
If Hamilton & his 'advisors' are half as clued-up as I imagine, the apparent fit of pique by Alonso will merely confirm to them how rattled he is & that they've won the argument in the psychological 'battle'. I expect Hamilton to pass Alonso, if not in the first corner, then in the pits (maybe literally given the ante!!) via a different fuel/tyre strategy. The circuit, as we're told, is difficult to pass on - but I wouldn't discount Hamilton having a go somewhere at sometime, if all else fails.
Magic.
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I certainly wouldn't have wanted Ron's arm round my shoulder with that look on his face - His answer to the TV commentators said it all - hope alon the crow is put to back of grid.
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Massa can't be too happy with his team. Apparantly they forgot to refuel him and he ran out of petrol in the pit lane.
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>>His answer to the TV commentators said it all - hope alon thecrow is put to back of grid.
>>
I would expect no public action.
Ron's number one aim is the constructors championship. He has always said that.
I think he will just say "it was confusion within the team".
This way Alonso will retain his pole position and so McLaren retain the best chance of a high points score for the team.
In the motor home.....I think a few words will be said.
I would not be surprised if something is arranged to give Hamilton a boost in the race.
Hamilton has to bide his time and not get the red mist.
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Ron seems very much in the limelight though following the other recent events. I wouldnt be surprised if he didnt do something to highlight his teams sporting fair play.
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That should read `did` something.......... Sorry
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Having many years ago been on the end of one of Ron's tongue lashings, I don't envy Mr Alonso.Head removed and deficated down his throat would be an apt description of what will have been said behind the closed motorhome doors.What goes around, come around.
The constructors championship is where the money is.The winning team gains in excess of £20M.The drivers championship gains Kudos, but that don't pay the bills.
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>>Hamilton has to bide his time and not get the red mist.>>
Never given me the impression that he's even like that - he has a remarkable temperament, as is the case with so many young stars these days whatever the sport involved.
I think it will make him even more determined tomorrow.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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I for one am getting just a little bit tired of the politics. Its taking over from the track action to the point that Im wondering what exactly the outcome of the season is going to be as its as much down to penalties as results.
Im looking forward to next season now when hopefully the storm will have blown over.
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>>I would expect no public action.
>>Ron's number one aim is the constructors championship. He has always said that.
>>
No action to be taken by the GP stewards.
The grid stays the same so this is the outcome Ron needed.
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"Hamiltons mistake led to pit incident" says Denis.
Details at
www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_...6
"....It remains to be seen whether the fans, far less the media, accept the Denis explanation."
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It's just been reported on ITV News that Alonso has been penalised five places on the grid for tomorrow.
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It's just been reported on ITV News ....
And on BBC.
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/69...m
"McLaren will also not be allowed to score constructors' points."
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However the BBC now report
"Alonso punished for Hamilton move "
"World champion Fernando Alonso has been moved five places down the grid for Sunday's Hungarian Grand Prix after an incident in final qualifying.
Lewis Hamilton was handed pole position hours after being delayed by his team-mate in the pit lane, meaning he was too late for his final lap.
McLaren will also not be allowed to score constructors' points.
Nick Heidfeld (BMW Sauber) was bumped up to second with Kimi Raikkonen third and Ferrari's Felipe Massa 14th.
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/69...m
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We now know what the outcome from the FIA was - Alonso was lucky!
But lets assume the official, initial reason was true and they were out of sequence.... Alonso could drive off and he delayed. He even started going and then stopped straight away. Who's the most immature from Alonso and Lewis.... hmmm I spy an F1 driver beginnning with A.
If (and it looks from footage he did) done deliberately then I would have withdrawm him from the race. And this would have saved some constructor points. Actually I'd verbally warn him then do something similar fire him.
Only caught up on the quali's and the new with visitors :-( Managed to not know result beforehand but had to turn on PC to check something and spotted something on here via am auto-page refresh.
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Result is poetic justice.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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This race tends to be a bit boring to watch and today's was no exception. Must have been extremely gruelling for the front runners though, and they all sounded knackered afterwards. Pity Alonso was bumped down the grid for (according to some) obeying his engineer's countdown...
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During the pre-race build up on ITV they were interviewing Hamilton, and he was saying something about Ron Dennis being very angry with him and having to apologise to the team. I think it was because he had been ordered to let Alonso go past during one of the qualifying periods, and Hamilton had refused (Alonso had dropped back so would have been difficult). Didn't catch all the details.
John
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What Hamilton basically said was he was ordered to let Alonso pass. But in doing so he would have left Raikkonnen through which he was not going to do. So decided to continue and then Alonso slowed right down making it impossible to let him past easily.
Sounds like a young 22 year old driver all fired up making a decision and not listening to a team order. He probably thought he was okay doing this. The mistake that was allowed to happen was for Hamilton to go out on the track in the third round of qualifying ahead of Alonso. Now didn't the team let him do this??
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He won according to R4 news. He should be riding bikes in races, less political.
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My personal opinion, had Hamilton gone out again he'd have been on pole and left Alonso 2nd. But that never happened. Had we had that situation then it would have been tougher for Hamilton if Mclaren engineers willing to be one-sides - like a pit-stop being longer.
Maybe the fairer penalty on Alonso would have been to ignore his last lap... putting him second after all.
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>>Result is poetic justice.>>
No, a Macca won and I am thinking that they might be a bunch of cheats, not Hamilton, the team, just read what Flav says about the spying case.
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>>Result is poetic justice.>> No a Macca won and I am thinking that they might be a bunch of cheats not Hamilton the team just read what Flav says about the spying case.
I think you may be a little biased. I seem to recall you insisted MS didnt cheat after the "Monaco parking" incident?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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MS and Monaco have nothing to do with it, Alonso was in a Renault then, Raik in a Macca.
Also there is a difference between bias and opinion, and there seems to be a lot of opinion in respect McL having used the Ferrari data to their advantage, Flav reckons that might be how they got used to the Bridgestone tyre so quickly compared to the other ex Michelin teams.
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>MS and Monaco have nothing to do with it, Alonso was in a Renault then, Raik in a Macca
Ok ched, as you were unable to extract the implied implication I shall spell it out.
In ched F1 world Ferrari can do no wrong. Hence you are biased.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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just read what Flav says about the spying case.
Flav? Some sort of authority on these matters no doubt. But surely not a person whose slant was always the same, or reliable, or particularly enlightening?
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Flav? Some sort of authority on these matters no doubt. >>
Clearly, and also in this case independent, in fact very critical of Ferrari in the past though scathing of McLaren in this instance and says that Renault are planning to attend the FIA hering because Renault are also an injured party, the implication being that another team has gained an unfair advantage.
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past though scathing of McLaren in this instance and says that Renault are planning to >> attend the FIA hering because Renault are also an injured party the implication being that >> another team has gained an unfair advantage.
I am sure he is not going there to muddy the waters, make things much worse for Mclaren, and in the process inherit or gain some advantage financial, or otherwise.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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As I said Flav questions how McLaren got used to the Bridgestone tyre so quickly compared to the other ex Michelin teams and apprenetly suggests that Ferrari data would have helped.
Hence you are biased.
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I like to see Ferrari do well, the best periods in F1 over that last 35 years have been when Ferrari have been up there and another team has been challenging.
However I have also been a Schu fan since 94 when he was treated disgustingly re penalties imposed at Silverstone and Spa and was so pleased he won the championship.
Hence despite living within a stones throw of Woking until five years ago and my wife knowing Ron's wife Lisa, I always favoured Shu/Ferrari over Hakka/Macca in their battles though was please to see Coulthard achieve some success in the McLaren.
Of the current crop of drivers that have a chance of success I have no probs with Hamilton, though his success will be tainted unless McLaren are either penalised or vindicated, however I warm to Massa more than Ham, Raik or Alonso.
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Well done Hamilton, but Alonso was hard done by. The, imho, meddling race authorities, have as much right in penalising Alonso for a purely team matter as they would have done if they meddled in their respective pay deals. The FIA (or their reps.) have simply overstepped the mark here. What next? Will they intervene in the race strategy if they deem that Ron Dennis has reverted to a 'No1 driver' driver policy & insist he treat both drivers equally? Utterly ridiculous in my view.
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Mr Briatorre (Flav to you) has two problems.
correction
Three problems.
1/ HIS team screwed up on weight distribution on Bridgestone tyres.
(funny how Renault ( French team) seemed to get better use of Michelin (French company) tyres than any one else last year.
2/ The Renault wind tunnel has just been found to be producing innacurate data.
3/ His driver line up is, it has to be said, lacking in quality.
Getting McLaren thrown out is an easy way to rack up points and overcome these home grown (ie nothing to do with McLaren) issues. Personally I would trust Flavio less than I would Dick Turpin,
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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>>Result is poetic justice.>> No a Macca won and I am thinking that they might be a bunch of cheats not Hamilton the team just read what Flav says about the spying case.
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As a member of the team,I resent being called a cheat.
Flav, can't accept that he lost his meal ticket when Alonso left and Mclaren have worked far harder than any other team(as usual) to produce a far superior car to the renault.If he was as professional and clever as Ron and spent more time kicking his engineers backsides than poncing around on yachts, they might get somewhere.
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"As I said Flav questions how McLaren got used to the Bridgestone tyre so quickly compared to the other ex Michelin teams and apprenetly suggests that Ferrari data would have helped."
In upcoming races the longer wheelbase Ferrari's are said to be better than the shorter wheelcase Mclarens. We will see.
But if this turns out to be true then if they have totally different wheelbases, engines, gearboxes, wings, etc. etc. then setting up the car to get the best out of the tyres surely difficult if you tried copying Ferrari. They are totally different cars. Maybe they just did a lot of testing? And even did a lot of simulation before they even built prototypes.
Next we'll find it was Bridgestone (or another Bridgestone team from last year) that provided them with all the useful data they needed... Not that I am suggesting this because I have no evidence.
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Flavio Briatore was the man who employed, at Benetton, the Marquess of Blandford as a celebrity greeter.
I thought it so funny that someone had chosen to entrust Lord Blandford with the keys to the booze cabinet that I wrote a very good verse about it, but unfortunately it is so scurrilous that HJ and PU would censor it immediately. So you don't get to see it, ha ha.
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As a member of the team I resent being called a cheat.
So would I and it is nothing personal.
Though your team McLaren have already been found guilty "The WMSC is satisfied that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code" , the outstanding question whether any advantage was gained or other teams were compromised.
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I guess it's about time to start speculating on which team Alonso will be driving for next year, and who will be hamiltons number two at Mclaren.
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Don't know about next year; if he gets up Ron's nose any more, it will be who'll he be driving for next race...
Ron would happily swap him for Kimi - and Jean Todt might go for it.
But then; who would want to be Hamilton's team-mate.
Red Bull might fancy/be able to afford him - they could swap him for either Mark Webber or DC; either would be a reliable sweeper as McLaren's number 2.
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Trouble is for Alonso, Ron Dennis has been backing Hamilton since he was 12 I think. And first met him 13 years ago and spotted talent. Hamilton is talented we all know and potentially world champion at some point and could be the highest paid sports person too (according to reports). I say good luck - his father has backed him and sacrificed lots to let him fulfill his ambition and dreams. Okay his dad is now benefitting too ;-)
Ron Dennis might be peeved but he's had more problematic drivers in the team racing against each other.
Mclaren is damned when they say there is no number 1 driver. And damned if they have team orders...
Rember that nobody including Hamilton would think he'd be quite this good. If Ron Dennis thought this last year why pay for Alonso!
I just hope the politics all settle down. First time F1 interesting in years and now all this driver stuff and Ferrari/VodafoneMcMerc too.
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>>Rember that nobody including Hamilton would think he'd be quite this good. If Ron Dennis thought this last year why pay for Alonso!>>
Just how good is Ham, well Alonso is good though has won when his car has been the best, no doubt Schu would have had more than an edge over him in the same car. And in many races this year the Macca has been the best car, Ham has won, Alonso has won, Ham is as good as Alonso, is that really such a big deal? If Flav had been his mentor he might have been in the Renault now getting one over Fisi like Kova is though with just a few points on the board and not even a podium.
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Having so far spent 20 years in total at Mclaren including 12 years on the race team, participating in over 180 grand prix, I can say as a matter of fact that there never has and never will be a number 1 and 2 drivers.Both will always get equal equipment and personnel.A team will naturally gravitate as the season progresses slightly towards the more successful driver.That won't happen this year as they are both equalling each other. The only problem Lewis and Fernando have is with each other and has little effect on the personnel around them.I hope the season will be decided on the track at the last race,although hopefully without the bumper car episodes we have seen in the distant past.I remember in the old days laughing at the usual media tripe stories back in the Senna/Prost days,saying we were going to erect a wall down the middle of the pit garage to keep them and personnel apart etc.The drivers were the ones who had the problem with each other- no one else. Still its great to have two fired up quick drivers who will push each other all the way.There is nothing more dispiriting than turning up at the circuit and having someone who couldn't drive sheep get in the car.
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> A team will naturally gravitate as the season progresses slightly towards the more successful driver.
>That won't happen this year as they are both equalling each other
The Glory and the money and future of the team is in the Driver title. Ok so the team constructor championship is worth £20m, but future investment and future of the team comes from being in the public eye, and thats only by winning drivers title. Sponsors care not a jot about the constructors title. IN 5 years time people will say, "Ah yes Alonton won the 2007 title in a McLaren Mercedes", not "Ah Yes McLaren Mercedes won the 2007 constructors titlle"
Now while you have your 1 and 2 drivers up there each with a chance of winning that title, yes of course you back both. Its an each way bet. However if one driver crashes in the next two GPS, gets no points and one gets two 10 pointers? With say a red pony driver 10 points behind?
I know where the momentum of the team swings behind. I know where the investment and time goes, So does Ron. He may have the most fair morals of any team principal in the pit lane, ( I think he has ), he may have the desire to be fair to both drivers. But come the crunch above all he is a business man, he has the team future and well being in his hands, and he knows he will do whats required, if it comes to favouring one driver over another.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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