I was measuring success on the amount of people who signed it.
Road tolls have been with us for many years, eg The Severn bridge. Not the same as paying X amount a mile.
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Alyn Beattie
I\'m sane, it\'s the rest of the world that\'s mad.
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Road tolls have been with us for many years, eg The Severn bridge.
............. and Dunham Bridge, and The Humber Bridge, and ..........
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L\'escargot.
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Road tolls have been with us for many years
Since man first started to travel-well almost .Many roads were tolled, called turn pikes.
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rustbucket (the original)
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I don't understand it. The government are given a mandate by the majority of the population to ........ er ........... govern, and then people complain about the way they are doing it.
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L\'escargot.
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If we never complained about the decisions of the government we have elected...............eek.
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we elected them on their mandate not on this new Tax!
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I don't understand it. The government are given a mandate by the majority of the population to ........ er ........... govern, and then people complain about the way they are doing it. -- L\'escargot.
That's just not true.
More people voted against New Labour. Not sure of the exact figures but around 29% of the electorate voted for New Labour. Hardly a majority.
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For the 2005 election only 61.4% of the electorate voted. New Labour achieved just 35.2% of the vote with 64.8% who voted against them.
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For the 2005 election only 61.4% of the electorate voted. New Labour achieved just 35.2% of the vote with 64.8% who voted against them.
If my calculations are correct that works out at only 21.6% of the electorate voted for New Labour.
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yes thats true but we 'the Tax Payers' are not responcible for their repairs.
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Surely road tolls and road pricing are two variations of the same idea?
Not necessarily.
If the toll is to cross a bridge then you have to consider the fact that the bridge is owned by the shareholders of the bridge company. You couldn't expect them to allow you to cross their bridge for nothing. It was their money that built the bridge. Your toll pays for the maintenance of the bridge and the shareholders' livelihood.
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L\'escargot.
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>> Surely road tolls and road pricing are two variations >> of the same idea? Not necessarily. If the toll is to cross a bridge then you have to consider the fact that the bridge is owned by the shareholders of the bridge company. You couldn't expect them to allow you to cross their bridge for nothing. It was their money that built the bridge. Your toll pays for the maintenance of the bridge and the shareholders' livelihood.
The big exception being the Queen Elizabeth bridge at Dartford which was made a toll bridge to recover the construction costs. Despite "breaking even" in March 2002, it was given a year's extension on its toll charging policy to build up a maintenance fund, and then the powers that be opted to retain toll charging indefinitely "to help manage traffic".
Clearly a case of having people by the short and curlies. The detour to avoid this bridge is totally impractical.
Cheers
DP
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Seems a good reason to sign the petition to me.
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Alyn Beattie
I\'m sane, it\'s the rest of the world that\'s mad.
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So the continuing toll charge at the Queen Elizabeth Bridge, which is now unnecessary for the covering of construction and maintenance costs, but is supposedly helping to manage traffic, is being collected by whom and ends up where?
Sorry... stupid question...
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Darford toll is currently operated by Le Crossing Company Limited (private company). Le Crossing took over from the Dartford River Crossing Limited (private company), whose concession was revoked on 31st March 2003 under the terms of Dartford-Thurrock Crossing Act 1988. It is rumoured Sheriff of Nottingham as well as Guy of Gisbourne have shares in Le Crossing Company Ltd.
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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The question is simple are we signng the petition or not?
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Alyn Beattie
I\'m sane, it\'s the rest of the world that\'s mad.
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The question is simple are we signng the petition or not?
What's with the "we" Paleface? Me Tonto, me just hold horse! ;-)
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L\'escargot.
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"It is rumoured Sheriff of Nottingham as well as Guy of Gisbourne have shares in Le Crossing Company Ltd."
Even worse, so do the French - Cofiroute. Much as I love France (France that is, not the French!!) it seems a bit odd that after the bridge has been paid for, a repair and running cost fund has been built up and the rest is presumably profit, that some of this money should end up in France. But then I suppose it's the way it is at the moment. I increasingly see adverts for EDF, (electricite de France), a nationalised company, and my rubbish is collected by a French company, my road swept by a French company, yet British companies trying to do the same in France wouldn't stand a chance.
I suppose the Millau bridge was designed by a British architect though, so maybe we do get our own back sometimes
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Phil
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Motorists are still paying a toll to use the Kingsway Tunnel in Liverpool - it was built in the 1930s.
In the case of Queensway it's fair enough.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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In MOST cases the way round the Bridge tolls are to stay on the Motorway, in road pricing we will not have a choice, We will still be expected to pay more taxes to pay for the wages of the staff to run the system, and the cost of putting the equipment in. The cost of repairing the toll roads will still put the taxes up year on year.
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What the heck is wrong with road pricing!? I thought most people here would love the idea! If it can reduce traffic and make my journeys faster than I'm 100% in favour!
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"What the heck is wrong with road pricing"
Well, for starters, The Telegraph reports that even rural roads will be charged - only 2p per mile admittedly. However, my commute is about 5 miles along rural roads and on average I would say I see about 6 or 10 other cars. Even if congestion increases by 25% in the next 10 years I would only see another couple of cars. There is no public transport along these roads so "all" these people will presumably still have to drive so
a) There is no "congestion" which we will be being charged for causing
b) It will not reduce the number of cars on the road
In other words, it doesn't, in some ways, take any acount of congestion!
All it will do is penalise poorer people who need to drive on these roads (quid a week for me will not break the bank but it could be a significant amount for some poor unfortunate)
Too many of these decisions are taken by people who have no contact with the realities of living/getting to work/doing shopping/visiting outside the cities which generally have good public transport - the realities for poor rural workers may be somewhat different.
MPs don't care because they can claim back all their expenses in getting to work (and more)
In addition, and no personal offence intended ;-), yours is rather a selfish attitude - "I can afford to pay extra, get the peasants off the road - they are blocking my way!!"
How about getting those 2 million uninsured/untaxed cars off the road? That would be a start.
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Phil
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I don't know the finer details of the proposals but it makes sense that if you don't charge for the minor roads, people will use them in preference of the main roads. Sure no system is perfect but I'm as sure as I can be that road pricing WILL reduce the overall volume of traffic. If it doesn't I will gladly admit that I was wrong. I'm not wrong though ;)
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what the extract above does not quote is the following:
"Stephen Ladyman, the roads minister, said in a newspaper interview the zonal system would avoid the need for a complex system of varying prices for each street.
"All we would need to know is what zone you were in and whether you crossed into another," he said "
Presumably he said that in an attempt to quosh teh outcry over the privacy invasion aspects of the scheme.. the Governm,ent would know where you were at all times..
Typical spin.. How can you price a zone usage without knowing how many miles travelled in it? To do that you need to knwo where you are ...
And can you imagien what happens when everyone discovers the ratruns which are lowered priced zones...
The law of unintended consequnces etc...
Anyone who seriosuly thinks this scheme as currently presented has been thought through obviously believes that The Child Support Agency is a roaring success., and believs in little grenn men from Mars.
And of course if it ain't thought through beforehand, when it's implemented it won't work properly.
I'm all in favour of well though through schemes which will be proven to work.
All the current proposals prove is,that if the current proposal was submitted as a proposal to a commercial organisation, it would be thrown out as half baked .....and the proposer would be informed his services were no longer required.
madf
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"WILL reduce the overall volume of traffic. If it doesn't I will gladly admit that I was wrong. I'm not wrong though ;)"
You also realise that all the trucks that deliver your needs to the stores you buy from will also have to pay these charges?
Who do you think they will pass the costs on to?I wouldn't be quite so smug about how it will affect us yet. Who pays the set-up costs of (projected ) £60 billion (oh, hang on, Government+computers+optimistic estimates = it won't work + will cost £200billion to set up before we find that out. Plus £7billion a year to run?
Some cost for reducing traffic by ????
I would be interested to come back to this thread in 2020 (earliest date Gallileo system which will track you will be operational) and see whether your statement "road pricing WILL reduce the overall volume of traffic." is correct.
Care to have a little wager that when road pricing does come in that it WILL reduce congestion from today's level?
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Phil
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