Leaving the scene.

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Wed 27 Jul 2005 12:17
Leaving the scene. - Rob C
It's car park bumps again. Is it the same offence, in law obviously, to damage a car then leave without a trace as it is too leave the scene of an RTA (or RTI) in the Vic Reeves style?

Chap at work has had his car dented quite badly, and a round-robin e-mail has brought no confessions. I wonder whether a bluff of possible police action due to CCTV footage (another bluff) would flush the miscreant out.
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Wed 27 Jul 2005 12:40
Leaving the scene. - Truckersunite
If it is not on a public road then there is nothing to say you have to notify either the owner or anyone else, He has nothing to loose by bluffing, but if the person is prepared to drive off after such an accident then I would guess that the threat of action is unlikely to out them.
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Wed 27 Jul 2005 12:52
Leaving the scene. - Robin Reliant
I would be highly surprised if an accident on private propery absolved you of the legal obligations that apply on the highway. In any case, assuming this was in your companies car park it would be classed as being a place to which the public have right of access, which would make your obligations under the Road Traffic Act the same as if you were on the road.
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Wed 27 Jul 2005 13:04
Leaving the scene. - The Lawman
Correct.
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Wed 27 Jul 2005 13:39
Leaving the scene. - GreatestDancer
someone will be along in a minute to confirm but AFAIK there was a legal clarification regarding this circumstance in around 2002 / 2003. The outcome of the test case was that yes, you are obliged under the road traffic act to stop and exchange details for an accident on private land (e.g supermarket / office car park)

Rich
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Wed 27 Jul 2005 15:11
Leaving the scene. - Truckersunite
Well you learn something new every day ;o)
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Wed 27 Jul 2005 16:19
Leaving the scene. - The Lawman
I only know this becasue one of my clients was done for this very thing in a pub car park...
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Wed 27 Jul 2005 16:39
Leaving the scene. - Dwight Van Driver
Section 170 RTA 1988 deals with stopping and reporting accidents which occur on a road (will not labour this as the majority of you know what a road is) OR PUBLIC PLACE.

Of this later piece it is up to the prosecution to prove that people admitted to the area in question are members of the public and admitted as such and not as members of some SPECIAL or PARTICULAR CLASS of the public and such people are admitted with the permisssion, express or implied, of the owner of the land in question.

Whether it is a public place is a question of fact for the Court to decide.

Good example is a farmers field used for parking at an agricultural show. Whilst the show is on then it complies, the rest of the time it doesn't. Similar is a pub car park open during Licensing Hours but closed outside.

The position of a Supermarket Car Park should now be clear.

DVD
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Wed 27 Jul 2005 16:45
Leaving the scene. - grn
Interesting, and I doubt a company car-park could be considered a public place - it would be there for the use of it's employees and posibly customers, but not the general public?
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Wed 27 Jul 2005 17:40
Leaving the scene. - Zippy123
I am no expert, but if the RTA does not apply then if you could find them - criminal damage might?
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Wed 27 Jul 2005 19:24
Leaving the scene. - frostbite
If company car park then look for similar damage on another car, or perhaps regular parker missing?
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Fri 29 Jul 2005 01:20
Leaving the scene. - Rob C
He's been through all that and found nothing. It's quite a hefty dent on a new VW Polo. It will most likely be a new rear quarter panel.

The bluff e-mail hasn't worked either. There is CCTV footage but nothing that would even stand up in conversation, let alone in court.

It is such a thwack that I can't believe the perpetrator didn't feel it, which is a shame that such people work in our building.
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Wed 27 Jul 2005 19:59
Leaving the scene. - rebel
If a car park has closed gates, barrier or other security device which limits access, then it is normally considered private.

However, any area which has unrestricted access to the public is often treated in the same way as the public highway - and subject to the same regulations.

I know of a case where a motorcyclist was threatened with prosecution for riding his bike in his own driveway without a helmet, because he had no gates, and hence open to public access!
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Wed 27 Jul 2005 20:49
Leaving the scene. - Cliff Pope
>
I know of a case where a motorcyclist was threatened with
prosecution for riding his bike in his own driveway without a
helmet, because he had no gates, and hence open to public
access!


Oh dear! I often drive my SORNed vehicles about on my property, to keep them in running order. No tax, no insurance, no MOT, often unroadworthy awaiting repair, illegal tyres, not wearing seat belts,underage drivers, ....
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Wed 27 Jul 2005 21:11
Leaving the scene. - rebel
It's frightening isn't it.
This ruling has had serious implications for motorsport.
At national autograss events, the racing and pit areas now have to be completely segregated from public viewing areas.
A letter was circulated from the promoters to all licensed competitors last year - banning any race car from entering into any public viewing or parking area unless fully road legal.
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Sat 14 Sep 2013 14:37
Leaving the scene. - bumpy48

I know this is an old thread but I have a similar issue.

A van made a delivery to me down my private drive. When leaving, it knocked down my wall and when I chased out to remonstrate he drove off.

I was given a crime number by the Police, but now they are saying it was on private land "and therefore under the Road Traffic Act does not constitute a Road Traffic Collision and is a Civil matter. This therefore falls to your Insurance Company or Solicitor to deal with."

I dont give a jot about the cost of the damage but I would say that this is crime (leaving the scene of the accident or criminal damage) and therefore should be a police matter.

Any help would be appreciated.

Edited by bumpy48 on 14/09/2013 at 14:42

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Sat 14 Sep 2013 14:59
Leaving the scene. - daveyjp
Its BS. Your drive is a route of good intention, just like a car park, drive to a hotel etc etc. The Road Traffic Acts still apply.

This is from a Chief inspector who responded to a friend after a car rolled into his in a car park. He couldn't get in his car as the ther car had T boned him. Police arrived and used the 'private land' as an excuse to leave him to it. They were wrong.

Ask the Police if what they say is true you must be at liberty to drive around a supermarket car park whilst drunk with no fear of arrest for drink driving.
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Sat 14 Sep 2013 16:48
Leaving the scene. - Dwight Van Driver

Disagree.

The private drive to ones home is NOT a road or PUBLIC Place.

dvdf

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Sat 14 Sep 2013 17:40
Leaving the scene. - bumpy48

The CPS define a public place as a place to which the public, or part thereof, have access. This applies to my drive which provides access to three houses, untold number of trades people in cars and vans, and random members of the public who drive in because they are lost or being nosey.

Edited by bumpy48 on 14/09/2013 at 17:45

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Sat 14 Sep 2013 18:46
Leaving the scene. - Bobbin Threadbare

Can this approached from a vandalism or destruction of private property standpoint?

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Sat 14 Sep 2013 20:24
Leaving the scene. - bumpy48

Interesting viewpoint but probably too late to change my position with the Police which has always been 'leaving the scene of an accident'

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